Raped by Heritage

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The buyer's premium is the cut of the auction that goes to the house. It affects the consignor, not the buyer. The higher the premium, the less percentage of the final price the consignor gets. It never ceases to amaze that people do not understand this.

Lol...It doesn't affect the buyer the same way sales tax doesn't affect the buyer, right?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I have NEVER paid a sellers "fee or premium" when selling through an auction house...NEVER! Most AH's will waive these fees if your submission is somewhat significant. On the other hand I have ALWAYS paid a buyers premium...ALWAYS!

There's no "I" in many.

[ullmandds]

god I hate those damn Literals!!!!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

So being told you're going to be raped makes the rape better?

Not talking about Heritage here...but the industry as a whole. The buyers premium is rape. No other way to describe it. If the government imposed a 20% sales tax in this country, I wonder if you'd all be so cool with it?

What does the 20% cover? It's not doing the sellers any favors. I'm surprised more auction houses haven't taken the step of offering a greatly reduced or better yet...gasp...no buyer's premium.

And shipping charges...$15 for two pennants from a familiar auction house doesn't seem that bad....until they arrive.

I have limited experience in dealing with auction houses...maybe a half dozen purchases in the last year and a half. But so far I'm not impressed and the disappointment isn't limited to just one. Half assed-ness and mediocrity seem to be key components of the mission statement for a large part of the industry.

Stop calling it rape, you agreed to it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Lol...It doesn't affect the buyer the same way sales tax doesn't affect the buyer, right?

Only if you don't understand it. Otherwise, no, it doesn't, it's just part of the bid calculation. For anyone who understands it, the BP is a matter of indifference -- it could be zero or it could be 50 percent.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by keithsky

That's why eBay has been popular over the years because they don't have a buyer's premium what you see is what you pay. They have major flaws on eBay and are always making asinine changes but have consistently not impose the buyer's premium on people. I'm sure everyone on here has bought or sold on eBay at some point and it's been nice not to have to pay 20% buyer's premium on eBay. Once they wise up and start thinking about charging a buyer's premium then everybody will be complaining about that.

I regularly compare sale prices between eBay and auction house results and I'm amazed at how much people over pay for items in auction. I was watching some complete sets in a few recent auctions and lost interest when I realized I could get the sets much cheaper on eBay. It's like some people don't know eBay exists...or think they can only get a good item if they pay through the nose for it.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How hard is it to add 20 percent in your head or with a calculator? Much ado about nothing IMO.

The defense of the BP here is mind boggling...How dare anyone infringe upon your right to be ripped off!

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Grumpy old man in da house!

Not grumpy, just amazed at the ignorance shown in your response. And I'm probably young by net54 standards.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

The defense of the BP here is mind boggling...How dare anyone infringe upon your right to be ripped off!

How is it being ripped off if you fully know it is going to happen? If you don’t like, buy somewhere else. Plenty of non BP options out there.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

I'm thinking you thought I said "Liberal"? I said "Literal":

adjective
1.
taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or allegory.

Yeap, I can't see my computer screen. Now quit getting all literal. (says Emily Litella, Gilda Radner)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZLeaSWY37I
.

[joshuanip]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

The defense of the BP here is mind boggling...How dare anyone infringe upon your right to be ripped off!

Now the buyers premium is deserved. Auction houses are not a free service. eBay charges the the seller and after the eBay price premium and PayPal cut... what hairs are we splitting.

That said, they come up economically the same and if buyers aren’t factoring in the buyers premium and possible taxes in an auction, then that’s the buyer’s fault!

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Some of you folks criticizing the OP for the use of the word rape really need to look up the definition of rape.

Hint - the word has several other meanings other than the act of an unconsented sexual assault - e.g. rape the land.

I'm not defending hthe OP and surely he should have considered the BP, taxes, shipping and etc, but if he feels violated (and I don't agree that we was), then rape is definitely an appropriate choice of words.

While rape is an appropriate word by definition, it is an extremely powerful word. In my opinion, using it in any context less significant undermines the severity, suffering, distress, and personal violation of those who have experienced a sexual assault.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

How is it being ripped off if you fully know it is going to happen? If you don’t like, buy somewhere else. Plenty of non BP options out there.

Do you get this excited when you pay your taxes?

[Dewey]

So you can define "literal" with the help of an internet dictionary, but you can't seem to see the difference between informed consent (the practice of the auction house) and the analogy used in the title. And for your error or inability, everyone who disagrees with you gets the pleasure of being accused of being either old, sensitive, or "literal." (None of those things are de facto bad, by the way.) When in fact it is your mistake all along.

As someone who counsels assault survivors, the analogy is gross. But even if you think it isn't, it is just the wrong analogy. Your choice on which one you want to defend. Now, back to complaining about terms clearly noted by auction houses...

Originally Posted by Fballguy

I'm thinking you thought I said "Liberal"? I said "Literal":

adjective
1.
taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or allegory.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by joshuanip

Now the buyers premium is deserved. Auction houses are not a free service. eBay charges the the seller and after the eBay price premium and PayPal cut... what hairs are we splitting.

That said, they come up economically the same and if buyers aren’t factoring in the buyers premium and possible taxes in an auction, then that’s the buyer’s fault!

Ebay doesn't charge buyers to buy things. I get the difference in overhead costs for an auction house. So I'd sincerely like to know...Is waiving seller's fees at auction houses the norm, or reserved for the special few?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

While rape is an appropriate word by definition, it is an extremely powerful word. In my opinion, using it in any context less significant undermines the severity, suffering, distress, and personal violation of those who have experienced a sexual assault.

Oh, he should have been more politically correct? Understood.

[Dewey]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Do you get this excited when you pay your taxes?

If you don't pay your taxes you go to jail or get fined.

If you don't bid on an auction...you get to go to bed before 2am.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Something is happening here but you don't know what it is.
Do you, Mr. Jones?

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

The defense of the BP here is mind boggling...How dare anyone infringe upon your right to be ripped off!

I have a right to be ripped off? Constitutional attorneys please explain

[joshuanip]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Ebay doesn't charge buyers to buy things. I get the difference in overhead costs for an auction house. So I'd sincerely like to know...Is waiving seller's fees at auction houses the norm, or reserved for the special few?

Hi Rob, the seller gets charged on eBay so he (should) mark up the card appropriately.

At the auction houses: It’s fairly common to waive the sellers fee. That is extra juice in their negotiation with your consignment. That said the more desirable cards you have the better your neg rate (sellers premium is waived and you share the buyers premium). And if you have a featured front page piece that increases your leverage to get a higher neg rate across your lots.

[pgconboy]

This entire thread and all threads like it in the future can be avoided if auction houses utilizes the provided user information they use in invoices to also display during the bidding process.
Honus Wager Bid 1,100 / Buyers Premium 1,320 / Est Final Price 1,430

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by pgconboy

This entire thread and all threads like it in the future can be avoided if auction houses utilizes the provided user information they use in invoices to also display during the bidding process.
Honus Wager Bid 1,100 / Buyers Premium 1,320 / Est Final Price 1,430

Yes, they could also be avoided if folks on this board possessed greater than a 6th grade education and a calculator.

[Snapolit1]

Dude doesn't bother to read the conditions of sale of the AH and all of a sudden he's been taken advantage of. Yeah, sure.

OP should stick to garage sales.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

While rape is an appropriate word by definition, it is an extremely powerful word. In my opinion, using it in any context less significant undermines the severity, suffering, distress, and personal violation of those who have experienced a sexual assault.

It's not accurate regardless of what meaning he intended, as rape is never consensual, unlike his purchase.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Do you get this excited when you pay your taxes?

I just cut a rather large tax check, and I wasn’t particularly excited about it. But then I realized my tax dollars are needed to fund things like teaching people how to read, multiply, or the basic fundamentals of how businesses work. So it goes to a good cause.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Do you get this excited when you pay your taxes?

No I don’t. But I expect it. I pay quarterly taxes so I know what to plan on. I don’t like it but it is reality. Not much to say. Just do it.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

I just cut a rather large tax check, and I wasn’t particularly excited about it. But then I realized my tax dollars are needed to fund things like teaching people how to read, multiply, or the basic fundamentals of how businesses work. So it goes to a good cause.

This.

[joshuanip]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

I just cut a rather large tax check, and I wasn’t particularly excited about it. But then I realized my tax dollars are needed to fund things like teaching people how to read, multiply, or the basic fundamentals of how businesses work. So it goes to a good cause.

Getting off topic but I wish that was the case. A big portion of what we pay go to pensions of those who are “clocking in” their city jobs and not adding any value besides calculating how big their pension will be in 5 years.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

I just cut a rather large tax check, and I wasn’t particularly excited about it. But then I realized my tax dollars are needed to fund things like teaching people how to read, multiply, or the basic fundamentals of how businesses work. So it goes to a good cause.

Lol.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by joshuanip

Getting off topic but I wish that was the case. A big portion of what we pay go to pensions of those who are “clocking in” their city jobs and not adding any value besides calculating how big their pension will be in 5 years.

Also a good point, but how well tax money is used has potential to rival Frank’s monster thread!

[barrysloate]

The only issue I have is people who do not have to pay sales tax have a nearly one increment advantage over those who do. Since I live in NY, where sales tax is I believe 8.875%, I can't tell you how many lots I lose in Heritage by a single bid. I am the first underbiddder on a regular basis. So if the person who beat me lives in a state with no sales tax, he has a big advantage.

That said, it's the law and it is transparent. It just adds an extra hurdle for me to overcome, and can be frustrating.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

I just cut a rather large tax check, and I wasn’t particularly excited about it. But then I realized my tax dollars are needed to fund things like teaching people how to read, multiply, or the basic fundamentals of how businesses work. So it goes to a good cause.

Looks like we need to increase funding for remedial education.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

The only issue I have is people who do not have to pay sales tax have a nearly one increment advantage over those who do. Since I live in NY, where sales tax is I believe 8.875%, I can't tell you how many lots I lose in Heritage by a single bid. I am the first underbiddder on a regular basis. So if the person who beat me lives in a state with no sales tax, he has a big advantage.

That said, it's the law and it is transparent. It just adds an extra hurdle for me to overcome, and can be frustrating.

Might be time to get a po box in a state with no tax.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Might be time to get a po box in a state with no tax.

I have a second home in Florida, and lo and behold, another sales tax state.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I have a second home in Florida, and lo and behold, another sales tax state.

I'd rather have no state income tax than no state sales tax.

[barrysloate]

Agreed, but Brooklyn is my primary residence.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Not grumpy, just amazed at the ignorance shown in your response. And I'm probably young by net54 standards.

Sorry...You came out of the gate a little hot. Thought for sure you had one eye on the lawn as you were typing.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Jenx34

In what states do they add sales tax? Is it only CA, FL, IL, NY & TX?

For several Heritage Auctions, I was outraged that my winning bids were somehow subject to Fl tax. My thinking was that if the point of sale was Texas, why poor me in the Sunshine State had to endure another 6.5% on already expensive items. It wasn't until I went over to their office here in Palm Beach, saw it was a lot more than a PO box and quietly kicked a few tires realized it was all legit. If you can't bear it, don't bid.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Agreed, but Brooklyn is my primary residence.

Hey Barry, at least you don't get hit with both NY and FL sales tax on your winning bids----yet.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by Jenx34

In what states do they add sales tax? Is it only CA, FL, IL, NY & TX?

add CT to the list! Turns out I'm not a scofflaw after all

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Rape? Really? It was more like unsatisfying consensual sex. They told you what you would be getting, but you were so excited to be getting any, you didn't listen!

Perfection

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

add CT to the list! Turns out I'm not a scofflaw after all

Reminds me of one of my favorite episodes...

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Hey Barry, at least you don't get hit with both NY and FL sales tax on your winning bids----yet.

Hi John,
Well I haven't told then about Florida yet.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardguy

Reminds me of one of my favorite episodes...

The White Whale!

[Dewey]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I'd rather have no state income tax than no state sales tax.

I'd rather be able to own a second home.

[sycks22]

Joe's Vintage auctions doesn't charge a BP, they take their money from the consignors based on the closing price.

[leaflover]

Don't forget the California Sales Tax. Heritage has a field office in Beverly Hills.

[ricktmd]

Heritage is clear what their buyers premium will be, they have a freight calculator and charge tax. To me their auctions are super clear . It does feel at times that their realized prices are quite high. It makes me think they would be a good auction house to consign to

[pencil1974]

When I place a bid with Heritage it shows my bid plus it shows the cost with BP. So I guess I’m lost on how someone can be confused on the what the total will end up. I’m pretty sure I don’t have a magic computer and it’s the same for everyone.

[pgconboy]

Originally Posted by pencil1974

When I place a bid with Heritage it shows my bid plus it shows the cost with BP. So I guess I’m lost on how someone can be confused on the what the total will end up. I’m pretty sure I don’t have a magic computer and it’s the same for everyone.

You got 0 sales tax and free shipping? Where do you live?