If PEDs didnt exist who wd be in HOF

[theshleps]

So if there were no PEDs and Bonds etc achieved what they did without them- who else would be in the HOF?
Obviously Bonds and Clemens- who else
Sosa? McGuire? Manny?? who else

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Would Sosa have been HOF caliber without them? We'll never know.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Would Sosa have been HOF caliber without them? We'll never know.

That is like asking if all the HOFers from the 50s-present would have been as good without all the illegal amphetamines/TUE ADHD meds. PEDs are like aspirin or any other medication, it works way better for some than others. Just look at the Canseco brothers. PEDs really helped one and not so much for the other,

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Just look at the Canseco brothers. PEDs really helped one and not so much for the other,

There's obviously something to be said for natural ability. It really helped one and not so much for the other!

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

OT, but speaking of the Cansecii, did any other 80's kid pull an Ozzie card out of a pack of 89 UD and feel a sort of contact high because it was almost like getting a Jose?

Thanks for mentioning Ozzie, Ben. Childhood memory unlocked! (I never did pull the Jose out of a foil pack, but once got 2 Griffeys in one pack, so that worked out better, anyway! Canseco was seemingly my nemesis when opening packs from certain sets. Took two boxes of 87T to attain one card. I don't know how many packs of 88 OPC it took to get my lone Canseco. Easily hundreds of packs, and it took until at least 1990 to finally pull one. Wow, it's worth a whole dollar now!)

[raulus]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

OT, but speaking of the Cansecii,

Point of clarification - in modern Italian, the plural of Canseco is Cansechi.

Ordinarily, you would just change the o to i to pluralize, but because there's a c in there, to make sure the hard c sound sticks around, we get to add the h.

[BioCRN]

I don't care if Bonds ever gets to the HOF...but he was fun as hell to watch him dominate the batting game to the point a simple AB became something to totally avoid for a pitcher or a life/death battle.

A lot of people were roiding, only Bonds was striking fear in teams and pitchers like Bonds.

Bonds was an easy HOF without the PEDs...he chose the pay and stats.

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

I don't care if Bonds ever gets to the HOF...but he was fun as hell to watch him dominate the batting game to the point a simple AB became something to totally avoid for a pitcher or a life/death battle.

A lot of people were roiding, only Bonds was striking fear in teams and pitchers like Bonds.

Bonds was an easy HOF without the PEDs...he chose the pay and stats.

Roids elevated the play of many players, but with Bonds and Clemens, it made them capable of previously impossible things.

[theshleps]

Originally Posted by bnorth

That is like asking if all the HOFers from the 50s-70s present would have been as good without all the illegal amphetamines/TUE ADHD meds. PEDs are like aspirin or any other medication, it works way better for some than others. Just look at the Canseco brothers. PEDs really helped one and not so much for the other,

Ben do we know which 50s-70s players used used amphetamines- any of the classics? mantle? mays/ aaron? or others in the HOF?
I know alot of former mlb players from the years 2000+ and I know adderal was/is quite common
Just found this on baseball reference
" in the 1970s and users included Willie Stargell, Dave Parker, Jim Bouton and Bill Madlock. Willie Mays is frequently alleged to have used them as well " or this on espn
" A retired Tony Gwynn spoke openly of baseball's amphetamine problem in 2003, estimating for The New York Times that 50 percent of position players were using them routinely, many of them before almost every game. (Gwynn subsequently was blasted by those in uniform at the time for, in their opinion, speaking out of school.)"

[packs]

Andy Pettitte is a HOF pitcher if he wasn't so honest about himself.

If you believe Clemens started juicing when he went to Toronto, he subsequently stole two Cy Youngs from Randy Johnson, who finished second behind him twice.

In another world, Randy Johnson is the only 7 time Cy Young winner and Roger Clemens's career was over at 32. He would be seen in the same way voters see Johan Santana and would likely not be a HOFer in either reality.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by theshleps

Ben do we know which 50s-70s players used used amphetamines- any of the classics? mantle? mays/ aaron? or others in the HOF?
I know alot of former mlb players from the years 2000+ and I know adderal was/is quite common
Just found this on baseball reference
" in the 1970s and users included Willie Stargell, Dave Parker, Jim Bouton and Bill Madlock. Willie Mays is frequently alleged to have used them as well " or this on espn
" A retired Tony Gwynn spoke openly of baseball's amphetamine problem in 2003, estimating for The New York Times that 50 percent of position players were using them routinely, many of them before almost every game. (Gwynn subsequently was blasted by those in uniform at the time for, in their opinion, speaking out of school.)"

Adderall is amphetamines and dextroamphetamine salts.

I've taken it for a while, but not currently. One dosage my doctor asked how it was going, and I said it made me feel like a pro ballplayer... something I then had to explain - that dosage came in green capsules.

I also have been to the batting cages both with and without it, and with ritalin.
No improvement was found in any way. I was still a modified/slowpitch batter with moderate power.

Maybe it helped pay attention while a pitcher was doing pitcher things?

NOT a PED.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by steve B

Adderall is amphetamines and dextroamphetamine salts.

I've taken it for a while, but not currently. One dosage my doctor asked how it was going, and I said it made me feel like a pro ballplayer... something I then had to explain - that dosage came in green capsules.

I also have been to the batting cages both with and without it, and with ritalin.
No improvement was found in any way. I was still a modified/slowpitch batter with moderate power.

Maybe it helped pay attention while a pitcher was doing pitcher things?

NOT a PED.

Adderall is 100% a PED and a damn good one. I get what you are saying but you are going to a batting cage a few times. You would have gotten the same result no matter the PED. PEDs are not magic, you still have to put in the work. Now if you spent several hours in a batting cage every day for months on end without improvement then maybe it just don't work for you.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by theshleps

So if there were no PEDs and Bonds etc achieved what they did without them- who else would be in the HOF?
Obviously Bonds and Clemens- who else
Sosa? McGuire? Manny?? who else

A-Rod and Rafael Palmeiro are no doubters for me.