Happy Festivus! Airing of Grievances 2024 Edition

[parkplace33]

December 23 is Festivus! Time for the annual airing of grievances. What grinds your gears in the collecting hobby?

Here is the 2022 post: https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=329338

Here is the 2023 post: https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ghlight=airing

For me this year, it was the Memory Lane tragedy wayyyy back in May 2024: https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ht=memory+lane

My grievance is not with the shipment of cards to a Best Western Plus (which it could be) but rather the fact that a major auction house in 2024 knowingly ran an auction with items that they were not in possession of when the auction ended. And the defending of this practice? Yeesh. I have seen a lot of lows in the hobby over the my collecting career, but this might be the lowest.

What’s yours?

[Peter_Spaeth]

I'm no fan of ML, but as previously stated I don't get the "grievance" or whatever you want to call it. Who was hurt? Even if the cards had not been recovered, who would have been hurt? This was done out of pragmatic considerations and because it was better than the alternatives, not to defraud anyone. Or maybe ML even knew the cards had been recovered before they could say so publicly, for all we know. Hardly an annual highlight IMO. Not in a hobby where countless altered cards are being bought and sold for huge sums every single day, and new ones being made I should add.

[Exhibitman]

With the abundance of asshats and crooks in the hobby, it is so hard to choose just one, but let me 'honor' all of the sneak thieves, burglars, opportunistic thieves, and car robbers who have plagued card shows all year. It seems like you cannot go a single big show without someone getting ripped off. It has basically chased me out of the desire to set up at shows, which is a shame because I generally enjoy having a table and looked forward to doing it more often in retirement.

Honorable mention to people shit-posting the hobby. If card collecting sucks so much, stop doing it, or if not, at least STFU about it, Debbie Downer.

[Johnny630]

I don’t have any grievances really this year, just saddened by all the thefts in person at shows and the break-ins of vehicles in transit to and from shows. People for the most part have been pretty nice on the board. There hasn’t been any major battles between members which is a good thing :-).

Also, let’s not forget all the greats who died this year, which will be missed.

[egri]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Honorable mention to people shit-posting the hobby. If card collecting sucks so much, stop doing it, or if not, at least STFU about it, Debbie Downer.

I’ve noticed a few members here who frequently post about how much they despise the hobby and are done with it, because they are evidently so through with the hobby that they can’t stop posting about it.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

With the abundance of asshats and crooks in the hobby, it is so hard to choose just one, but let me 'honor' all of the sneak thieves, burglars, opportunistic thieves, and car robbers who have plagued card shows all year. It seems like you cannot go a single big show without someone getting ripped off. It has basically chased me out of the desire to set up at shows, which is a shame because I generally enjoy having a table and looked forward to doing it more often in retirement.

Honorable mention to people shit-posting the hobby. If card collecting sucks so much, stop doing it, or if not, at least STFU about it, Debbie Downer.

+1 on this also

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I'm no fan of ML, but as previously stated I don't get the "grievance" or whatever you want to call it. Who was hurt? Even if the cards had not been recovered, who would have been hurt? This was done out of pragmatic considerations and because it was better than the alternatives, not to defraud anyone. Or maybe ML even knew the cards had been recovered before they could say so publicly, for all we know. Hardly an annual highlight IMO. Not in a hobby where countless altered cards are being bought and sold for huge sums every single day, and new ones being made I should add.

You must get it, because you and every single person in that thread knew, and knew why, it would be wrong for me to do the exact same thing for the exact same reason. Not a single poster thought it would be okay for me to do the same thing. You all just wanted a different standard for the auction house run by a convicted fraudster that was not applicable to everyone else. If you know and know why it is wrong for me to do it, then you must know why it is wrong. Is it the worst behavior in card land in 2024? No, but you all surely get why some people objected and held a consistent standard with carve outs for certain corporations and persons.

[butchie_t]

Scotch Tape on......welll, damned near anything card related.

B.T.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

You must get it, because you and every single person in that thread knew, and knew why, it would be wrong for me to do the exact same thing for the exact same reason. Not a single poster thought it would be okay for me to do the same thing. You all just wanted a different standard for the auction house run by a convicted fraudster that was not applicable to everyone else. If you know and know why it is wrong for me to do it, then you must know why it is wrong. Is it the worst behavior in card land in 2024? No, but you all surely get why some people objected and held a consistent standard with carve outs for certain corporations and persons.

It's very different for a business that has consignors it will potentially need to reimburse, an ongoing auction with hundreds of bidders, and an insurer (or more than one) it potentially will need to deal with and agree with (or not) on values of stolen cards. It's not at all the same thing as one guy selling one card on the BST. Just because you can construct some overly simplistic analogy does not make the analogy meaningful. Again, who was, or could have been, hurt in this massive outrageous fraud?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's very different for a business that has consignors it will potentially need to reimburse, an ongoing auction with hundreds of bidders, and an insurer (or more than one) it potentially will need to deal with and agree with (or not) on values of stolen cards. It's not at all the same thing as one guy selling one card on the BST. Just because you can construct some overly simplistic analogy does not make the analogy meaningful. Again, who was, or could have been, hurt in this massive outrageous fraud?

Note these differences are claims about convenience. We all know that something is not okay just because honesty might be less convenient. That convenience is magnified the more items there are, surely. But you would also surely not accept ethics by convenience for other issues.

We all know they did not have an insurance claim that required hosting a fraudulent auction, as so many people claimed. I am still to this day, after like 1,110 posts and dozens of emails with people over it, still awaiting a single solitary example of any insurance policy from all of human history that requires hosting fake auctions to value items . We all know perfectly well they could be valued another way.

If you want to have a standard where it is okay to do because the winners did not get their money stolen, frankly, that would be understandable and I would simply disagree. But that was not and is not the line - because you all know 100% perfectly well why it would be wrong for me to do the exact same thing. If this was your sincere view, you all wouldn't have understood why it would be wrong for me to do it. The thread could have been like 200 posts if you guys had been consistent, instead of insisting on inconsistent standards to justify it only for certain people.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Note these differences are claims about convenience. We all know that something is not okay just because honesty might be less convenient. That convenience is magnified the more items there are, surely. But you would also surely not accept ethics by convenience for other issues.

We all know they did not have an insurance claim that required hosting a fraudulent auction, as so many people claimed. I am still to this day, after like 1,110 posts and dozens of emails with people over it, still awaiting a single solitary example of any insurance policy from all of human history that requires hosting fake auctions to value items . We all know perfectly well they could be valued another way.

If you want to have a standard where it is okay to do because the winners did not get their money stolen, frankly, that would be understandable and I would simply disagree. But that was not and is not the line - because you all know 100% perfectly well why it would be wrong for me to do the exact same thing. If this was your sincere view, you all wouldn't have understood why it would be wrong for me to do it. The thread could have been like 200 posts if you guys had been consistent, instead of insisting on inconsistent standards to justify it only for certain people.

Straw man. The issue is not did the policy require it. The issue is, was it a pragmatic thing to do under the circumstances to establish values for a worst case scenario.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's very different for a business that has consignors it will potentially need to reimburse, an ongoing auction with hundreds of bidders, and an insurer (or more than one) it potentially will need to deal with and agree with (or not) on values of stolen cards. It's not at all the same thing as one guy selling one card on the BST. Just because you can construct some overly simplistic analogy does not make the analogy meaningful. Again, who was, or could have been, hurt in this massive outrageous fraud?

What about collectors bidding on cards that ML didn't have? What if collectors had bid on those cards and not bid on other cards in the auction? If the cards had not been found, collectors would have passed on other cards they wanted to think they bought a card that they would never get. Consigners cards may have sold for less due to people bidding on these stolen cards.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by rats60

What about collectors bidding on cards that ML didn't have? What if collectors had bid on those cards and not bid on other cards in the auction? If the cards had not been found, collectors would have passed on other cards they wanted to think they bought a card that they would never get. Consigners cards may have sold for less due to people bidding on these stolen cards.

+1

I think, at least, we would all call continuing the auctions without cards in hand "deceptive."

Some will go on to rationalize it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

What about collectors bidding on cards that ML didn't have? What if collectors had bid on those cards and not bid on other cards in the auction? If the cards had not been found, collectors would have passed on other cards they wanted to think they bought a card that they would never get. Consigners cards may have sold for less due to people bidding on these stolen cards.

And if they shut the auction down, or took every stolen card off the table, both collectors and consignors are deprived of potential purchases/sales if the cards are found, and if they aren't, ML owes 100 card owners money and the valuation process starts at ground zero and it well could have worked to the disadvantage of consignors. It's a no win.

[campyfan39]

My grievance is that this guy gets on almost every thread on the main page and says something negative or argumentative. 32k posts

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I'm no fan of ML, but as previously stated I don't get the "grievance" or whatever you want to call it. Who was hurt? Even if the cards had not been recovered, who would have been hurt? This was done out of pragmatic considerations and because it was better than the alternatives, not to defraud anyone. Or maybe ML even knew the cards had been recovered before they could say so publicly, for all we know. Hardly an annual highlight IMO. Not in a hobby where countless altered cards are being bought and sold for huge sums every single day, and new ones being made I should add.

[irv]

For me, personally, it is what shipping fees have become. Especially purchasing from U.S. sellers and the use of the global shipping program.
I've cried about these fees before but they are seriously getting out of hand. $35-$50 dollars+, U.S., to ship one card that can cost a 1/3 of the shipping fee.

It's rare now, unless it is from a CDN seller, to find shipping less than $25-$30 dollars, which, of course, has really deterred me from looking at cards from many U.S. sellers.

But, all that aside, Merry Christmas everyone.

[Fred]

Tired of all the people that overhype everything in the (what's left of it) hobby. Many times it just doesn't seem like much of a hobby anymore.

When's somebody going to bring up PSA's wonderful customer service? Or grading price structure? Or lack of true accountability for grading undersized cards with razor sharp corners and calling them mint.

fetivus pole2.jpg

As they say - every thread should have a picture of a card:

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

My grievance is that this guy gets on almost every thread on the main page and says something negative or argumentative. 32k posts

+1 on this.

[raulus]

I’ll go with just about everyone’s favorite:

The cards are too damn high (priced)!!!

Just seems like to get anything nice requires a 6-figure outlay these days. And I struggle to convince myself that it’s a good idea to part with so much cash for so little in return.

So I keep biding my time, hoping that someday the everything rally will end. And in the meantime, just keep plugging away towards my retirement goals.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

I’ll go with just about everyone’s favorite:

The cards are too damn high (priced)!!!

Just seems like to get anything nice requires a 6-figure outlay these days. And I struggle to convince myself that it’s a good idea to part with so much cash for so little in return.

So I keep biding my time, hoping that someday the everything rally will end. And in the meantime, just keep plugging away towards my retirement goals.

Dude if you can't find anything nice for under 6 figures, you must be collecting some very very elite cards.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Dude if you can't find anything nice for under 6 figures, you must be collecting some very very elite cards.

Six figures will buy a collector some nice cards on the non-sports section of the hobby. Apparently, not an unpunched 1932 U.S. Caramel McKinley, but some nice stuff nonetheless.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by raulus

I’ll go with just about everyone’s favorite:

The cards are too damn high (priced)!!!

Just seems like to get anything nice requires a 6-figure outlay these days. And I struggle to convince myself that it’s a good idea to part with so much cash for so little in return.

So I keep biding my time, hoping that someday the everything rally will end. And in the meantime, just keep plugging away towards my retirement goals.

Six figures for anything nice ?! You must have expensive taste in cards

+1 to your overall point though.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by raulus

The cards are too damn high (priced)!!!

Just seems like to get anything nice requires a 6-figure outlay these days. And I struggle to convince myself that it’s a good idea to part with so much cash for so little in return.

So I keep biding my time, hoping that someday the everything rally will end.

"Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." - Yogi Berra

[theshowandme]

“Book Price”

[theshowandme]

“Grading is a scam”

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

“Grading is a scam”

Grading cards and encapsulation in blocks of plastic is total BS

The hobby is gone, cards are a country club for VERY wealthy people

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Grading cards and encapsulation in blocks of plastic is total BS

The hobby is gone, cards are a country club for VERY wealthy people

The hobby is not gone.

It never went anywhere.

I’m poor and enjoy this thing we have here called the hobby

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

The hobby is not gone.

It never went anywhere.

I’m poor and enjoy this thing we have here called the hobby

Don't confuse James with facts. His mind is made up.

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Grading cards and encapsulation in blocks of plastic is total BS

The hobby is gone, cards are a country club for VERY wealthy people

I'm not rich -- I just like encapsulation (specifically SGC) because it presents well and protects the item. And I suppose when I'm dead, it'll give my kids an exact idea of what it's worth.

[butchie_t]

Here is one…..COMPS!!!!!

I don’t give a tinkers damn about the comps, I want to know what you want for dang card!@!!!!!@!@!@!@!@@

Ugh……..

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

“Grading is a scam”

Please clarify this grievance. Are you upset that grading is indeed a scam, or that people insightfully state that fact?

Sorry, couldn't resist the low-hanging fruit. Either way, it's all good.

[jchcollins]

Here are a few things after slowly combing through this tiring thread that might come to mind *for some* as grievances:

1. Attorneys on the main page, and their perpetual need to long windedly one-up each other on the details of the legalese which may or may not apply to a particular hobby incident / dealings of an auction house / other random hobby happening.

2. The never-ending argument on the main page and elsewhere on the skulduggery of alteration, or those who believe that Kurt's Card Care, et al. are totally legit businesses, who operate with no problems or cause for concern.

3. James and his perpetual disrespect for the way others collect as evidenced by his inability to go a week without tiredly railing on and on again about the evils of professional card grading, as if we haven't heard it all roughly 17 thousand times before.

BUT -- not me.

My grievance is petty much what it always is - prices. This is truly just a hobby for me, and as such I'm left to channel spare income, bonus money, Christmas & birthday money, etc. to fund my continuing pasteboard purchases. I could of course dip into retirement savings or investments to just go buy whatever I want without nearly as much regard for the cost, (another oft-visited main page subject...) but I think I'd like to remain married instead.

As the years go by and I find myself finally more interested in things like prewar at least for my Chicago Cubs collection - I remain astounded even in a downturn at how ridiculously expensive everything is - even in low grade. I'll get over it, but that's my true grievance.

Happy Holidays All!

[Eric72]

These days, so little discussion on the main page is actually about prewar baseball cards.

That bothers me somewhat.

[Golfcollector]

My grievances:

1) Not having a separate Category called “Bitching Session" – where moderators can move posts that turn into arguments between 2-3 people and give them their own section to play paper/scissors/rock in.

2) Why can't we just all enjoy the cards, the collecting and the knowledge...Sometimes we ALL do this effectively...other times...not so much.