Best team with no HOFers or HOF caliber players?

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't have the answer in mind. Second part is to take steroid exclusions out of the analysis. Also, players not yet eligible. Not exactly sure when Sutton left the Dodgers but maybe one of the post-Sutton teams?

[G1911]

The 1884 Maroons come to mind first.

[cgjackson222]

The Giants sort of had a dynasty in the early 2010s winning World Series in 2010, 2012, and 2014. Their best players were probably Madison Bumgarner, Buster Posey, Tim Lincecum and Barry Zito. All fine players, but I don't see any of them getting into the HOF any time soon.


Also, the Kansas City Royals won the Word Series in 2015 in 5 games and lost it in 7 games the year before and their best players were probably Salvador Perez, Alex Gordon, Erik Hosmer, Alex Rios and Ben Zobrist. Unlike the Giants from a few years earlier, they had few to no pitching stars, unless you consider Lorenzo Cain, Edison Volquez, or their closer Greg Holland to be stars.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

The Giants sort of had a dynasty in the early 2010s winning World Series in 2010, 2012, and 2014. Their best players were probably Madison Bumgarner, Buster Posey, Tim Lincecum and Barry Zito. All fine players, but I don't see any of them getting into the HOF any time soon.


Also, the Kansas City Royals won the Word Series in 2015 in 5 games and lost it in 7 games the year before and their best players were probably Salvador Perez, Alex Gordon, Erik Hosmer, Alex Rios and Ben Zobrist. Unlike the Giants from a few years earlier, they had few to no pitching stars, unless you consider Lorenzo Cain, Edison Volquez, or their closer Greg Holland to be stars.

Good call on both teams.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

The Giants sort of had a dynasty in the early 2010s winning World Series in 2010, 2012, and 2014. Their best players were probably Madison Bumgarner, Buster Posey, Tim Lincecum and Barry Zito. All fine players, but I don't see any of them getting into the HOF any time soon.


Also, the Kansas City Royals won the Word Series in 2015 in 5 games and lost it in 7 games the year before and their best players were probably Salvador Perez, Alex Gordon, Erik Hosmer, Alex Rios and Ben Zobrist. Unlike the Giants from a few years earlier, they had few to no pitching stars, unless you consider Lorenzo Cain, Edison Volquez, or their closer Greg Holland to be stars.

really like your pick with the Giants.

Those players just all spiked with career bests during those years at the same time. And then some faded away while others had some respectable to strong careers

[packs]

The 2008 Rays had nobody and they managed to win 97 games in the AL East. Lost to the Phillies in the series but their best players were Carlos Pena, Evan Longoria and Carl Crawford.

[jingram058]

1962 angels, 86 - 76, 3rd in AL. They had nobody.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

The Giants sort of had a dynasty in the early 2010s winning World Series in 2010, 2012, and 2014. Their best players were probably Madison Bumgarner, Buster Posey, Tim Lincecum and Barry Zito. All fine players, but I don't see any of them getting into the HOF any time soon.


Also, the Kansas City Royals won the Word Series in 2015 in 5 games and lost it in 7 games the year before and their best players were probably Salvador Perez, Alex Gordon, Erik Hosmer, Alex Rios and Ben Zobrist. Unlike the Giants from a few years earlier, they had few to no pitching stars, unless you consider Lorenzo Cain, Edison Volquez, or their closer Greg Holland to be stars.

IMO Posey is a clear HOFer.

[packs]

I think Posey is a lock for the HOF as well and I don't see a lot of similarities between his career and Munson's. Posey won a batting title, which is very unusual for a catcher. I can't think of an unusual aspect of Munson's game or anything that would separate him from another borderline catcher. Posey also went out on his own terms with a monster final season. His OPS+ is significantly higher than Munson's and even their prime OPS+ numbers put Posey significantly ahead in terms of production in any single season.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by packs

I think Posey is a lock for the HOF as well and I don't see a lot of similarities between his career and Munson's. Posey won a batting title, which is very unusual for a catcher. I can't think of an unusual aspect of Munson's game or anything that would separate him from another borderline catcher. Posey also went out on his own terms with a monster final season. His OPS+ is significantly higher than Munson's and even their prime OPS+ numbers put Posey significantly ahead in terms of production in any single season.

So you don't see any similarities between two catchers that both won Rookie of the Year, both won MVP, both were 7x All Stars, both won multiple World Series, and both won Gold Gloves?

As far as peak goes, Munson's WAR 7 is higher than Posey's.

Last, Posey played 229 games at first base, so he needed to be a better hitter than Munson to be a fair comparison.

[orioles70]

I am not a Giants fan and I am not saying Buster Posey is a shoe-in HoFer...but he was NL Rookie of the Year and a NL MVP...he was a World Series Champ 3 times in his first 5 full seasons...he was a catcher with a lifetime batting average above .300 and he even won a NL batting title...even though his career was not lengthy (less than 1,400 games), his WAR (yes, I know...what is it good for) is the 7th best All-Time as a catcher and better than many catchers that are in the Hall with longer careers...if anybody from those Giants teams from 2010-2014 is deserving it is Posey.

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[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by orioles70

I am not a Giants fan and I am not saying Buster Posey is a shoe-in HoFer...but he was NL Rookie of the Year and a NL MVP...he was a World Series Champ 3 times in his first 5 full seasons...he was a catcher with a lifetime batting average above .300 and he even won a NL batting title...even though his career was not lengthy (less than 1,400 games), his WAR (yes, I know...what is it good for) is the 7th best All-Time as a catcher and better than many catchers that are in the Hall with longer careers...if anybody from those Giants teams from 2010-2014 is deserving it is Posey.

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Question: What WAR numbers are you looking at? I am looking at career WAR numbers for catchers, and Posey ranks 16th, just behind Wally Schang, Gene Tenace, and Thurman Munson. That being said, any of those guys could get in some day, but I think Munson may have the best shot, do to his untimely death.

Posey and Munson have similar credentials. Both were 7x All Stars, both won Rookie of the year, both won MVP. Posey won 3 World Series, to Munsey's 2. Munsey was probably the better fielder, and won 3 Gold Gloves, to Posey's 1.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Question: What WAR numbers are you looking at? I am looking at career WAR numbers for catchers, and Posey ranks 16th, just behind Wally Schang, Gene Tenace, and Thurman Munson. That being said, any of those guys could get in some day, but I think Munson may have the best shot, do to his untimely death.

Posey and Munson have similar credentials. Both were 7x All Stars, both won Rookie of the year, both won MVP. Posey won 3 World Series, to Munsey's 2. Munsey was probably the better fielder, and won 3 Gold Gloves, to Posey's 1.

Maybe he was looking at best 7 years stretch, in which Posey ranks comfortably above the HOF catchers average in WAR.

Munson's a good comparison, who also does well in the prime years ratings. Minus a couple MVP's, Campanella's MLB career could also be argued to be a decent comparison to Posey.

Even with 3 MVP's and a strong Negro League background, it took Campanella at least 5 tries to get into the HOF.

Catching is tough!

My first instinct was that Posey was a no-brainer for the HOF. Might not be as cut and dry as I thought, re-looking back at his total career stats.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Maybe he was looking at best 7 years stretch, in which Posey ranks comfortably above the HOF catchers average in WAR.

Munson's a good comparison, who also does well in the prime years ratings. Minus a couple MVP's, Campanella's MLB career could also be argued to be a decent comparison to Posey.

Even with 3 MVP's and a strong Negro League background, it took Campanella at least 5 tries to get into the HOF.

Catching is tough!

My first instinct was that Posey was a no-brainer for the HOF. Might not be as cut and dry as I thought, re-looking back at his total career stats.

Posey ranks 10th in WAR7. Munson 8th.

I see them both getting in.....Eventually

[bk400]

Originally Posted by orioles70

I am not a Giants fan and I am not saying Buster Posey is a shoe-in HoFer...but he was NL Rookie of the Year and a NL MVP...he was a World Series Champ 3 times in his first 5 full seasons...he was a catcher with a lifetime batting average above .300 and he even won a NL batting title...even though his career was not lengthy (less than 1,400 games), his WAR (yes, I know...what is it good for) is the 7th best All-Time as a catcher and better than many catchers that are in the Hall with longer careers...if anybody from those Giants teams from 2010-2014 is deserving it is Posey.

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That Giants team reminds me of the 1986 Mets. Only HOF: Gary Carter.

[todeen]

Is there a HOF player on the 1997 Florida Marlins? Gary Sheffield (60 WAR) and Kevin Brown (67 WAR) come to mind as the best players.

And not yet enshrined, the 2004 Florida Marlins I think are also without a HOF. Waiting for Miguel Cabrera (67 WAR), though. but technically it still counts.

Not my card. But I remember he was one of the hot cards to chase in 2002, especially in Topps 206. My order is 1) Mauer, 2) Posey, and 3) Molina....I can't stand him.



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[Peter_Spaeth]

If you read my question, I am excluding players who would be in but for steroids (Sheffield) and who aren't eligible yet but obviously are in (Cabrera).

Kevin Brown is an interesting player, his stats seem much better than his acclaim.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If you read my question, I am excluding players who would be in but for steroids (Sheffield) and who aren't eligible yet but obviously are in (Cabrera).

Kevin Brown is an interesting player, his stats seem much better than his acclaim.

Kevin Brown has also been linked to steroids:
https://www.thesportster.com/basebal...#8-kevin-brown

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Kevin Brown has also been linked to steroids:
https://www.thesportster.com/basebal...#8-kevin-brown

Yeah but it's not like he would have been voted in otherwise, IMO. He never got much love.

[Peter_Spaeth]

1993 Phillies won the pennant with no HOFers although Schilling.