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#1
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Reading through the great book "Cracker Jack Collection: Baseball's Prized Players," it's striking how many good players in the deadball era served as Player-Managers for some part of their careers. Wonder if we will ever see another Player-Manager. More complicated today than ever, but some supremely popular/respected guy like Jeter probably could have pulled it off. Would be great to see.
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#2
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Pete Rose was the last, correct?
I remember when Joe Torre was player/manager of the Mets. |
#3
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Yes Pete Rose Was the last.
I believe it was used for 2 primary reasons. 1. 1 player/manager is one salary vs 2 salary’s so the teams save money 2. A way to incentivize the player to play on your team so attracting the player and also as an attendance draw because usually the player manager was a popular player The major drawer back to this is as the player can no longer play but perhaps keeps themselves active as their skills decline or ties up a roster spot
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#4
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You hit the nail on the head as to the main "three" reasons for having player-managers. Your Reason #2 is actually two separate reasons, with the box office draw likely being the bigger reason. Figures at the end of the day it would be mostly about the money, right? And there are probably a lot more MLB player-managers than any of you ever thought or remember. The first ever recognized MLB player-manager was John Clapp with the Middleton Mansfields, all the way back in 1872. In fact, starting with Clapp in 1872, there has continuously been at least one player-manager every single year in the majors through 1955. And yes, many of them were well known star players. For example, there were 11 different players inducted into the baseball HOF in it's first two initial election years. And of the first 11 players, 9 of them were MLB player-managers at some point in their careers, with the two notable exceptions being Babe Ruth and Walter Johnson. As a matter of fact, a total of 63 HOFers have been MLB player-managers at some point. But before you go assuming it is all about the star power, I'll have you know there are an additional 159 non-HOFers (which includes Pete Rose and Hal Chase) who also served as MLB player-managers. So it is more so not about just the superstar players after all. And as earlier posted, Pete Rose in 1984-86 was indeed the last player-manager (for the Reds) ever in the majors. However, subsequent to Rose's tenure, there were talks/rumors about the likes of Paul Molitor, Barry Larkin, and Paul Konerko undertaking the task of player-manager, but no one pulled the trigger. Don't know if we'll ever see another player-manager in the majors, ever again. Based on what happened with the Astro's, it potentially gives a team an extra an person/player to be punished by MLB before it gets to the players. And teams today don't really worry about having enough to pay a manager. Here's a good question. Without looking it up, of the 222 total number of player-managers they've had in the major leagues, what position has produced the most player-managers, and what position has produced the least? And the position choices are: P C 1B 2B SS 3B OF Last edited by BobC; 02-06-2022 at 01:22 PM. |
#5
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1B - Most C 3B SS 2B OF P - Least |
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Wow did not even realize that there was over 200 player managers.
Position wise my guess Outfield most 1st base Short stop 2nd base Catcher 3rd base Pitcher. Least
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#7
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You've got the least one correct. Pitchers bring up the rear, with only 19 of the 222 player-managers coming from the pitching ranks. Top position is not 1st base though, they actually came in 3rd highest with 33 player-managers. |
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Wow, forgot about both of them.
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#10
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Washington had some sucess with it:
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1643828728 https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1643828736 |
#11
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I thought of Frank Robinson. He was the first one I became aware of.
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#12
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Including some of the really big names: Cobb, Mathewson, Lajoie, Speaker and Wagner
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#13
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Cobb was the one I thought of that probably helped attract talent to the club.
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#14
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Lou Boudreau won MVP while a player-manager in 1948 for the World Series winning Cleveland Indians. Not sure which other player-managers have won MVP.
Last edited by cgjackson222; 02-02-2022 at 03:17 PM. |
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Hornsby and Cochrane were both player-managers I believe.
I think Gehrig had the talent and mind for it as well, but was probably too much of a nice guy. His leadership qualities were apparently second to none.
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#16
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#17
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Naps, Robins?
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#18
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You have the easy half right of the question right, Napoleon Lajoie and the Cleveland Naps. Now you need to get the other half of the question, and it is not the Robins.
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#19
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Ok... I thought the Brooklyn NL team was called the Robins for a season or two, after Wilbert Robinson, but maybe that was after his playing days.
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#20
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The Cracker Jack Collection
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Tony Collecting: 1909-1911 T206 Southern Leaguers (Alabama) 1914 Cracker Jack Set (91 out of 145) |
#21
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If anyone wants to understand the Negro Leagues better, particular the issue of how the Negro Leagues compared to the Major Leagues, I'd commend this short book to you. A series of SABR essays. I'll say the belated recognition of the Negro Leagues it's hardly about political correctness.
https://www.amazon.com/Negro-Leagues...s%2C77&sr=8-10 |
#22
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For all of his accomplishments on the Diamond and Dugout, not to mention his achievements promoting African American rights, Frank Robinson's cards remain sorely undervalued. His '57 Topps card has been creeping up but should be worth a lot more. It is a great card from a great set.
I recall having breakfast at the Cleveland Nat'l a few years ago when who should slid into the booth next to me but Frank and Mrs. Robinson. While I stared at my Special K, I couldn't help but overhear the Robinsons' conversation which was whether Frank should have the oatmeal or egg white omelet. Then a procession of fans, ex major leaguers, vip's, etc. made its way to the Robinsons' table to pay homage. I left, but have always wondered whether the Robinsons ever got their breakfast. |
#23
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They authorized SEVEN different Negro Leagues that existed between 1920-48 as now supposedly being on par with the major leagues we know. This also added approximately 3,400 black players to the list of what are now considered as major league ballplayers. Now according to Baseball Almanac, as of February 3, 2022 there have been exactly 19,969 recognized major league ballplayers since 1876, when the National League was recognized. And in quickly looking at their list, it appears Baseball Almanac does not yet include any of the Negro League players who did not eventually make it into the majors as we know them today. And according to Wikipedia (and yes I know this is not infallible info, but is the best I could find), there were 45 black players listed as having played in the Negro Leagues in 1948 (the last year supposedly through through which Negro League stats are now considered major league stats) or earlier, that also ended up in the majors. I mention this so these players don't get double counted, but that is likely a moot point as I couldn't find a more exact figure than the approximate 3,400 number for how many Negro League players were added to the major league stat rolls. So lets say the number of black players added to the major league stats strictly from Negro League careers is 3,355 (3,400 - 45) then. And currently the US population is approximately 14% black, which is probably about the highest it has ever been, so a good percentage to use for my purposes. So here's my point. In the 145 year history of MLB there have only been 19,969 recognized major league players, while in the 28 year history of the Negro Leagues we are now saying there were 3,355 recently added major league caliber players. Yet blacks, at most, only account for about 14% of our overall population. Do you see the potential statistical anomaly here? How can so many black ballplayers all be so good as to merit major league level ability when they represent such a small portion of the overall population? I am not saying there weren't great black ballplayers that deserved to be in the majors, just not that many. The result of which would be that the overall player talent on Negro League teams was maybe a lot less than many would fantasize and have you believe. And if that is the case, the better black players got to pad their stats by playing against much less overall talented players, which isn't really a true and fair comparison then to stats put up by mainstream MLB players. Why not include PCL stats as major league level stats as well then? Or explain why after baseball's integration the Negro Leagues became true minor league teams to the major leagues. People often disparage old white ballplayers and their stats as overstated because they didn't play against the great black players of their time. But that argument goes both ways, and I can see looking at overall numbers and percentages that it actually may be the black ballplayers who got the even bigger statistical boosts by not having to play against whites. But isn't it funny how you never seem to hear anyone tout that thinking? So tell me again how adding all those Negro League stats as full-blown major league stats isn't possibly an attempt to appease others and remain in the overall good graces of as much of the public as possible by doing the politically correct thing. The timing alone of adding all these Negro League stats, in lieu of all the things going on in our society today, make the true intentions behind their inclusion suspect. Last edited by BobC; 02-06-2022 at 01:32 PM. |
#24
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Leon Luckey |
#25
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Here's Al Bridwell's player/manager card from 1919. His only season with Houston, there are accounts of him throwing runners out at the plate from Left field.
I remember Pete Rose picking his spots to pinch hit when he saw a good match-up with the opposing pitcher. It was fun to watch, and I hope we see it again. I could see someone like Altuve managing and playing at the end of his career.
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#26
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Hal Chase player-manager in 1911 NYAL. Love the kilt. Poor Hippo Vaughn!
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#27
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Brian |
#28
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Did anyone know that even Cy Young was a player-manager, 1907 with the Boston Red Sox.
Here's another player-manager trivia question. Can anyone guess the most number of different teams that one person has served as a player-manager of? And oddly enough there are two different people who have tied for this. |
#29
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Leon Luckey |
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