GAI Crossover?

[Snapolit1]

I've never bought a GAI graded card. Has anyone successfully crossed over a significant/costly GAI card to PSA? Wonder if anyone has stories good or bad. Other than seller reputation, any other factors you would look to?

Obviously would suck big time to try to cross over a nice card for real $$$ only to get dinged. I did see a line if one ebay listing about how take no responsibility for crossovers to other grading companies which seems only fair.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I've never bought a GAI graded card. Has anyone successfully crossed over a significant/costly GAI card to PSA? Wonder if anyone has stories good or bad. Other than seller reputation, any other factors you would look to?

Obviously would suck big time to try to cross over a nice card for real $$$ only to get dinged. I did see a line if one ebay listing about how take no responsibility for crossovers to other grading companies which seems only fair.

Very low success rate for everyone I know who has tried. Assuming you, or someone you know, has a good enough eye, you are better off breaking it out and submitting it raw. I doubt PSA has ever crossed one but have heard that SGC has but usually the card ends up in a lower holder.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Early GAI was reasonably legit, from what I have heard later GAI (even before it was resurrected with a new flip etc.) was a favor factory. Other than cards designated first graded, I don't know how to tell the difference.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Early GAI was reasonably legit, from what I have heard later GAI (even before it was resurrected with a new flip etc.) was a favor factory. Other than cards designated first graded, I don't know how to tell the difference.

Agree with Peter - originally they were good, then after a while it became apparent they were giving numerical grades to somewhat obviously trimmed cards. That's not to say that other "reputable" TPGs didn't encapsulate trimmed cards with a numerical grade, it's just that there seemed to a higher percentage of GAI cards like that I'm not aware of any reprints being encapsulated by GAI.

Like the saying goes - buy the card, not the holder. It could be a totally legit card and one of the other TPGs could opine it is altered, even though it's legit.

[marzoumanian]

On my website I have a blog on this subject that you might find of interest. I wrote it on 11/1/20. You can visit www.markearzoumanian.com. and then click on the "Love of the Hobby" section. It's about my firsthand experiences converting GAIs to PSAs.
NEVER submit a slabbed GAI to PSA. I broke all my GAIs out before submitting. My experience was that while there were a few smooth transitions (i.e. GAI 4 to PSA 4), most PSA grades came back LOWER than the GAIs. Good luck.

[rand1com]

GAI was very legitimate at the beginning. After all, their principals, Steve Rocchi and Mike Baker had been with PSA from the early days and left to form their own company.

Mike Baker was PSA's most knowledgeable grader during his time there who probably set up the standards they used for grading so he took his expertise to GAI. Any of the "1st Graded" flips on a particular card is very likely to have been accurately graded based on the standards at that time around 2005 or so.

However, even those would not likely cross over at the same grade today with PSA or SGC.

By the same token, they are very unlikely to be trimmed or tampered with as I'm sure Baker himself probably looked at each card with this designation.

I know of no way to tell when they lost their way on card grading but there was certainly a year or two that they were legitimate. They were the corporate sponsor of the National one year shortly after the company was formed.

On autograph authentication, it was when Mike Guiterrez left the company that they lost their way. Basically all autographs submitted after his time are suspect although there are good examples out there as well.

On pack grading, it was when their expert Mark Murphy aka "The Baseball Card Kid" left. There are serial numbers that can be referenced on the packs to determine when they were graded and packs graded by Murphy will normally cross over at possibly a grade lower.

The advise given about cracking it out and resubmitting raw to me is not the way to go unless you have had very good success submitting cards and getting high grades back. Those usually go to the auction houses and high volume dealers who submit thousands of cards per year.

I would rather have a GAI graded 8 than a PSA 5 no matter the card. It may only bring PSA 7 money in an GAI 8 holder but it will bring well above 5 money.

Just my opinion of course.

[Snapolit1]

Thanks guys. All really helpful.

Here’s the eBay that actually caught my eye. Not acting on but was just
curious. Looks very sharp to me.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-ROD-CA...-127632-2357-0

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Thanks guys. All really helpful.

Here’s the eBay that actually caught my eye. Not acting on but was just
curious. Looks very sharp to me.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-ROD-CA...-127632-2357-0

Could be the scan but that card is not rectangular, is it?

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Thanks guys. All really helpful.

Here’s the eBay that actually caught my eye. Not acting on but was just
curious. Looks very sharp to me.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-ROD-CA...-127632-2357-0

I see bat wings. That always raises red flags for me.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Thanks guys. All really helpful.

Here’s the eBay that actually caught my eye. Not acting on but was just
curious. Looks very sharp to me.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-ROD-CA...-127632-2357-0

The cell phone pic is just awful. I am not exactly sure what shape that is and two corners look a bit off...to me. A properly scanned version of the card might provide a more favorable assessment but as I tell everyone, just buy the card in the condition or holder that ya want it in and call it a day.

Most GAI cards, like this one, have likely been seen at least once by PSA and SGC and there is a good reason it remains in the GAI holder at this time.

And as was mentioned, early GAI were spot on in their grades but being able to distinguish those is nearly impossible. First Graded designation is not 100% reliable. At least I would not rely on it.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by rand1com

GAI was very legitimate at the beginning. After all, their principals, Steve Rocchi and Mike Baker had been with PSA from the early days and left to form their own company.

Mike Baker was PSA's most knowledgeable grader during his time there who probably set up the standards they used for grading so he took his expertise to GAI. Any of the "1st Graded" flips on a particular card is very likely to have been accurately graded based on the standards at that time around 2005 or so.

However, even those would not likely cross over at the same grade today with PSA or SGC.

By the same token, they are very unlikely to be trimmed or tampered with as I'm sure Baker himself probably looked at each card with this designation.

I know of no way to tell when they lost their way on card grading but there was certainly a year or two that they were legitimate. They were the corporate sponsor of the National one year shortly after the company was formed.

On autograph authentication, it was when Mike Guiterrez left the company that they lost their way. Basically all autographs submitted after his time are suspect although there are good examples out there as well.

On pack grading, it was when their expert Mark Murphy aka "The Baseball Card Kid" left. There are serial numbers that can be referenced on the packs to determine when they were graded and packs graded by Murphy will normally cross over at possibly a grade lower.

The advise given about cracking it out and resubmitting raw to me is not the way to go unless you have had very good success submitting cards and getting high grades back. Those usually go to the auction houses and high volume dealers who submit thousands of cards per year.

I would rather have a GAI graded 8 than a PSA 5 no matter the card. It may only bring PSA 7 money in an GAI 8 holder but it will bring well above 5 money.

Just my opinion of course.

Gotta disagree with this. Don't think GAI 8 would be close to PSA 5 money. I think most assume GAI = trimmed and would give you PSA auth money

[nolemmings]

I had good luck with the two cards I crossed over, both rookies of some value:


The Bancroft (no longer mine) crossed to 80 and the Faber to 86

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by rand1com

GAI was very legitimate at the beginning. After all, their principals, Steve Rocchi and Mike Baker had been with PSA from the early days and left to form their own company.

Mike Baker was PSA's most knowledgeable grader during his time there who probably set up the standards they used for grading so he took his expertise to GAI. Any of the "1st Graded" flips on a particular card is very likely to have been accurately graded based on the standards at that time around 2005 or so.

However, even those would not likely cross over at the same grade today with PSA or SGC.

By the same token, they are very unlikely to be trimmed or tampered with as I'm sure Baker himself probably looked at each card with this designation.

I know of no way to tell when they lost their way on card grading but there was certainly a year or two that they were legitimate. They were the corporate sponsor of the National one year shortly after the company was formed.

On autograph authentication, it was when Mike Guiterrez left the company that they lost their way. Basically all autographs submitted after his time are suspect although there are good examples out there as well.

On pack grading, it was when their expert Mark Murphy aka "The Baseball Card Kid" left. There are serial numbers that can be referenced on the packs to determine when they were graded and packs graded by Murphy will normally cross over at possibly a grade lower.

The advise given about cracking it out and resubmitting raw to me is not the way to go unless you have had very good success submitting cards and getting high grades back. Those usually go to the auction houses and high volume dealers who submit thousands of cards per year.

I would rather have a GAI graded 8 than a PSA 5 no matter the card. It may only bring PSA 7 money in an GAI 8 holder but it will bring well above 5 money.

Just my opinion of course.

I believe Mike has some kind of new gig whereby he will give the Baker Gold Stamp of Approval to cards already graded that he, I guess, considers exceptional. I haven't seen any such cards in the marketplace, so don't know what it looks like. what

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Any of the "1st Graded" flips on a particular card is very likely to have been accurately graded based on the standards at that time around 2005 or so.

However, even those would not likely cross over at the same grade today with PSA or SGC.

By the same token, they are very unlikely to be trimmed or tampered with as I'm sure Baker himself probably looked at each card with this designation.

This would not be correct. 1st Graded flips referred to the first time the specific card graded in that specific grade. They did not control when cards came in for grading so they were issuing 1st Graded on flips for the entire time they were in business.

Originally Posted by rand1com

The advise given about cracking it out and resubmitting raw to me is not the way to go unless you have had very good success submitting cards and getting high grades back. Those usually go to the auction houses and high volume dealers who submit thousands of cards per year.

I would rather have a GAI graded 8 than a PSA 5 no matter the card. It may only bring PSA 7 money in an GAI 8 holder but it will bring well above 5 money.

Cracking out really is the only way to go, as I stated above, if Steve has a great eye or someone he knows has a great eye, and can assess if the card is 100% not altered. The grade is subjective however today a PSA 5 would likely sell for more than a GAI 8. I have not seen a GAI 8 sell for PSA 7 money in a very long time. It is entirely possible that none ever have.

As much time as has passed since cards could be submitted to GAI any that are still on the market we have to assume are in those holders, still, for a very good reason. I certainly do not know a single person in the hobby who would leave a card in a GAI holder if they knew the card was 100% good.

[Tere1071]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

This would not be correct. 1st Graded flips referred to the first time the specific card graded in that specific grade. They did not control when cards came in for grading so they were issuing 1st Graded on flips for the entire time they were in business.



Cracking out really is the only way to go, as I stated above, if Steve has a great eye or someone he knows has a great eye, and can assess if the card is 100% not altered. The grade is subjective however today a PSA 5 would likely sell for more than a GAI 8. I have not seen a GAI 8 sell for PSA 7 money in a very long time. It is entirely possible that none ever have.

As much time as has passed since cards could be submitted to GAI any that are still on the market we have to assume are in those holders, still, for a very good reason. I certainly do not know a single person in the hobby who would leave a card in a GAI holder if they knew the card was 100% good.

In my case, there are 60 cards that are slabbed in my 53 Bowman Color set with three of those in a GAI holder. The slabbed cards I own were purchased through eBay and for the moment they're fine to remain in a slab as I'm not planning to do anything else but to enjoy what I have. On the other hand, would I purchase a major star in a GAI holder, probably not with what I've learned thus far.

Phil aka Tere1071

[Tere1071]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Early GAI was reasonably legit, from what I have heard later GAI (even before it was resurrected with a new flip etc.) was a favor factory. Other than cards designated first graded, I don't know how to tell the difference.

Peter, or anyone else, I have the following three GAI cards in my 53 Bowman Color set:

#44 Berra, Bauer, & Mantle i.d. # 10145068, rated 6 Ex-MT
#120 Marlin Stuart i.d. #10027952, rated 4.5 VG-EX+, 1st graded
#129 Russ Meyer i.d. # 10227193, rated 6.5 Ex-MT+, 1st graded

I purchased these before I found out about GAI's reputation. I measured them and they seem okay. From other collectors who have noticed trimmed cards in GAI holders, did this problem begin in this span of slabbed cards or after? If anyone is familiar with the sequence of GAI's grading, I'd like to know the approximate years when these cards were graded. I'm not looking to get rid of them or break them out, this is just out of curiosity.

Phil aka Tere1071

[glchen]

I crossed this card over from GAI to SGC. (PSA refused the crossover saying the card was too fragile for them to holder.) Even given the crazy rough condition, I wish I still had it. Regrets, I have a few ...

[RL]

Originally Posted by glchen

I crossed this card over from GAI to SGC. (PSA refused the crossover saying the card was too fragile for them to holder.) Even given the crazy rough condition, I wish I still had it. Regrets, I have a few ...

how did it change from a 1915 card to a 1916 card?

[ezez420]

I was going to buy this card years ago... A bit late to party. The former owner of this card knows his stuff so there was a reason still in holder.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe there is a big print dot on back. Referring to Carew.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Snapolit1]

As Johnny said to Ed McMahon many nights, "you sir are correct."

Originally Posted by ezez420

I was going to buy this card years ago... A bit late to party. The former owner of this card knows his stuff so there was a reason still in holder.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe there is a big print dot on back. Referring to Carew.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mrreality68]

I am currently not looking to buy any cards with the GAI holder. Especially with the changes/transitions that have been mentioned in this forum.

Alot of nice cards and glad many graded out similar but to me not enough of a Rep with them one way or the other

[Natedog]

This beauty has been listed for quite some time:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/373700675910

I think the only thing keeping someone from buying is the fact it's in a GAI holder. Great looking card, though. Outta my price range, but I can dream!