Slightly OT - 2020 Modern Baseball Era HOF Ballot

[triwak]

Nine former big league players and one executive comprise the 10-name Modern Baseball Era ballot to be reviewed and voted upon Dec. 8 at the Baseball Winter Meetings.

Dwight Evans, Steve Garvey, Tommy John, Don Mattingly, Marvin Miller, Thurman Munson, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker, Ted Simmons and Lou Whitaker are the candidates the Modern Baseball Era Committee will consider for Hall of Fame election for the Class of 2020. All candidates are former players except for Miller, who was the head of the Major League Baseball Players Association from 1966-82. All candidates except for Miller and Munson are living.

[triwak]

Let the BOOMERS' arguments begin!! :-)

[packs]

No to all but would like to see Mattingly do well. He was easily the most talented of the group and the HOF has awarded stalled careers before (see Dizzy Dean for proof). I don't know how other people feel but if Mattingly didn't get hurt he's the guy everyone would have been comparing Albert Pujols to when Pujols was at his peak.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think Whitaker may rate the highest of these in terms of the modern metrics. He's certainly the highest by far on Hall of Stats.

[Moonlight Graham]

I'm pulling for my childhood favorite Thurman Munson!

[OldOriole]

Granted, this is only one measurement to take into consideration but it does provide some useful info. Here are their career WARs (from baseball-reference) and where they rank on the all-time list:

Whitaker #79 (75.1 WAR)
Evans #129 (67.1 WAR)
John #169 (61.5 WAR)
Simmons #301 (50.3 WAR)
Murphy #366 (46.5 WAR)
Munson #373 (46.1 WAR)
Mattingly #457 (42.4 WAR)
Parker #519 (40.1 WAR)
Garvey #575 (38.1 WAR)

[Smanzari]

Marvin Miller really needs to be in, really surprised he's not

[JollyElm]

That's a helluva nice grouping. Specific metrics aside, Garvey, Parker, Mattingly and Whitaker were all looked at as studs during their careers. When their teams came to town, those are the guys you couldn't wait to see. To me, players like John, Evans, and Simmons (who I never realized had the career numbers he did until recently) were more about stamina, slowly accruing numbers over time while not being considered (forgive the puns) topps in their fields. Since everyone's hometown will greatly influence their feelings in regard to this list of players, Thurman Munson was a hard nosed leader who helped restore the Bronx Bombers to prominence. He is the one I am rooting for the most.

[Vintagecatcher]

Dewey had a cannon for an arm.

Great all around baseball player!

Patrick

[steve B]

If he'd had a full career Munson would already be in.

I don't really buy the argument that they were all already voted on.

At least Evans was off the ballot because of the really strong field in 1999
(Ryan, Brett, Yount, in on their first, and Fisk and 5 other eventual HOFers. )
He was a decent hitter for the era, just missing 400hr at a time that was a solid milestone. And a great fielder.

There aren't really any on that list that wouldn't belong at all.

[packs]

Whitaker didn't even make it past the first vote before he fell off. Sometimes there is merit in revisiting. Jorge Posada didn't survive his first vote either and I can't think of a more egregious example of a guy being criminally ignored (even if he ultimately isn't a HOFer).

[SAllen2556]

Of the all-time top 80 players ranked by WAR, who is NOT a member of the Hall of Fame?

Answer:
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Albert Pujols
Adrian Beltre
Curt Schillling
Pete Rose

and...Lou Whitaker.

Of the top 16 second basemen ranked by WAR, there are 3 players NOT in the Hall. They are Bobby Grich, Robinson Cano, and Lou Whitaker.

Among 2nd basemen, he's ranked 7th in games played, 14th in JAWS (ahead of Alomar, Biggio, Doerr, Fox), 10th in home runs, 5th in walks, 4th in double plays turned, 11th in putouts, 18th in range factor (ahead of Morgan and Sandberg, Kent, and Cano), and 6th in assists.

1978 Rookie of the year, 3 gold gloves, 4 time silver slugger, 5 time all-star.

I hope he gets in. He really was the best player on the Tigers in those days in terms of pure talent.

Hope Munson gets in too.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

Of the all-time top 80 players ranked by WAR, who is NOT a member of the Hall of Fame?

Answer:
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Albert Pujols
Adrian Beltre
Curt Schillling
Pete Rose

and...Lou Whitaker.

Of the top 16 second basemen ranked by WAR, there are 3 players NOT in the Hall. They are Bobby Grich, Robinson Cano, and Lou Whitaker.

Among 2nd basemen, he's ranked 7th in games played, 14th in JAWS (ahead of Alomar, Biggio, Doerr, Fox), 10th in home runs, 5th in walks, 4th in double plays turned, 11th in putouts, 18th in range factor (ahead of Morgan and Sandberg, Kent, and Cano), and 6th in assists.

1978 Rookie of the year, 3 gold gloves, 4 time silver slugger, 5 time all-star.

I hope he gets in. He really was the best player on the Tigers in those days in terms of pure talent.

Hope Munson gets in too.

Ok, Beltre and Pujols aren't eligible yet. The guys with red text just picked a bad year to retire....

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by steve B

If he'd had a full career Munson would already be in.

Don't think I'd agree with this. Munson was already in major decline at the time of his death. He was still hitting for a decent average (.288) but his power had entirely evaporated. He slugged .373 and .374 his last two seasons.

[toppcat]

Miller and Whitaker. Can;t believe Whitaker didn't go in with Trammel, he's one of the best 2B ever.

[oldjudge]

Mattingly and Marvin Miller. Mattingly, despite the back issues in the second half of his career, was a .307 lifetime hitter. He won 9 gold gloves and was an MVP. Almost every year of his 14 year career he was in the top 20 in MVP voting.
Marvin Miller had more of an impact on the game than most of the guys in the Hall now.

[timn1]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Miller and Whitaker. Can;t believe Whitaker didn't go in with Trammel, he's one of the best 2B ever.

As usual the Yankee lovers are all over their faves, but Whitaker is by far the best player of the era who is not in the HOF.

I would put Simmons in too. Miller is a no-brainer.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Don't think I'd agree with this. Munson was already in major decline at the time of his death. He was still hitting for a decent average (.288) but his power had entirely evaporated. He slugged .373 and .374 his last two seasons.

His numbers for his 11 years are generally better than Fisks first 11 years. And Munson wasn't as much of a power hitter. Going by modern stats, his WAR compared to Fisks for the 11 years was better.

And consider that all that comes from a Red Sox fan.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by steve B

His numbers for his 11 years are generally better than Fisks first 11 years. And Munson wasn't as much of a power hitter. Going by modern stats, his WAR compared to Fisks for the 11 years was better.

And consider that all that comes from a Red Sox fan.

Yeah, but he went from a guy hitting 16-20 homers to hitting 6. And on pace for 4-5 his last year.

He was CLEARLY declining. Fisk improved.

[SteveMitchell]

Since all the players are pretty clearly among Baseball's Top 1-2% I would support the election of all but not Marvin Miller.

[JunkyJoe]

My top 3 picks would be 1) Munson, 2) Parker, and 3) Whitaker, in that order.

[OldOriole]

I found our discussion quite interesting in the other thread, but it was hard to keep track of the votes, so I decided to do a poll. Hope that's OK. You can vote up to four, just like the HOF Modern Day Committee members. Of course, you always have the option of voting for none of the above (wish I would have spelled that correctly in the poll). Thanks!

[wondo]

I went with Miller for his contributions to the MLBPA, Simmons as one of the top hitting catchers and Whitaker for his longevity / excellence at a middle infield position. I am biased towards Sweet Lou being a Tiger fan in the 70s / 80s. His connection with Trammell is an intangible.

The others, although All Stars, MVPs, etc. run along that line of "These guys were really good!", but we have too many of them in the Hall already imho.

[AGuinness]

Well deserved for both.
I’m a bit surprised Whitaker didn’t get as much love, as he had the hype before the committee met. I suspect other players split votes, as four others all each got at least six.


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[KingFisk]

Bench and Gary Carter carried the day for Topps All Stars (going from memory here).

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[kevinlenane]

I'm still holding out hopeless hope for the VetCom to realize that if Phil Rizzuto deserves to be there - than Dom Dimaggio needs to be there more.

[triwak]

Ken Harrelson wins the Frick Broadcaster's award. As a kid, I always found his 1971 Topps card hysterical! And someone please tell me, that this Jeter rookie card is worth $140,000!!

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by triwak

Ken Harrelson wins the Frick Broadcaster's award.

Good grief. That's worse than the Baines selection. Talk about rewarding longevity over talent.

[RCMcKenzie]

There is a Dave Parker documentary coming up on MLB t.v. I think tomorrow night. Check your local listings.

I know I always set his cards aside when I was opening packs in the 70's...very surprised to see he got the fewest votes in this poll.

[triwak]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Good grief. That's worse than the Baines selection. Talk about rewarding longevity over talent.

Chris, Ken Harrelson is only being HONORED with the Broadcaster's award. Most of those honorees never played the game, but he did of course. He is NOT being INDUCTED into the actual Hall of Fame.

[topcat61]

Originally Posted by kevinlenane

I'm still holding out hopeless hope for the VetCom to realize that if Phil Rizzuto deserves to be there - than Dom Dimaggio needs to be there more.

I agree. Dome was overshadowed during his career and most of this life because of this brother Joe. How fair is that? I'ma little bias when it comes to Dom being from Massachusetts, but he also lost time from serving in the Navy.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by topcat61

I agree. Dome was overshadowed during his career and most of this life because of this brother Joe. How fair is that? I'ma little bias when it comes to Dom being from Massachusetts, but he also lost time from serving in the Navy.

If we add every guy who ever played that's better than Rizzuto, we'll end up with hundreds of guys that don't belong in the Hall, Dom Dimaggio among them.

[JollyElm]

Scooter was the wildly popular, wacky voice of the Yankees for seemingly 100 years. Without question, that was a (I would say HUGE) part of the reasoning for his enshrinement, player statistics aside.