HOF is a Joke

[baztacula]

Rank------Player--------(yrs)----Career WAR
78.---Lou Whitaker------(19)---------74.9
93.---Alan Trammell----(20)---------70.4
604.--Bill Mazeroski-----(17)---------36.2 <---HOF

Ridiculous.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...R_career.shtml

[glchen]

I think you're forgetting Tommy McCarthy of the 16.1 career WAR, so low he doesn't even make the top 1000 cutoff.

Frankly, I grew up during the age of those great Tiger teams of Trammell and Whitaker. I always thought of those two as solid All Stars, but not HOFer material. I thought those Tiger teams were led by Gibson and Morris, and Gibson will never sniff the Hall of Fame, and Morris might only get in through generosity of the Veteran's Committee. (Frankly, I think Morris deserves to get in.)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glchen

I think you're forgetting Tommy McCarthy of the 16.1 career WAR, so low he doesn't even make the top 1000 cutoff.

Frankly, I grew up during the age of those great Tiger teams of Trammell and Whitaker. I always thought of those two as solid All Stars, but not HOFer material. I thought those Tiger teams were led by Gibson and Morris, and Gibson will never sniff the Hall of Fame, and Morris might only get in through generosity of the Veteran's Committee. (Frankly, I think Morris deserves to get in.)

Yes, but at the same time, the hitting thresholds are lower for middle infielders. That said, I don't see either of those guys as worthy. Of the four you mention, Morris seems the closest.

[Bruinsfan94]

I know we have a lot of 1800's guys here so can someone explain why Mcarthy is in the Hall? Clearly WAR can't be used as the end all be all, since the game is about as different as you can get then how it was played then.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by Bruinsfan94

I know we have a lot of 1800's guys here so can someone explain why Mcarthy is in the Hall? Clearly WAR can't be used as the end all be all, since the game is about as different as you can get then how it was played then.

WAR is WAR if it is calculated correctly which means rule changes are considered.

But if WAR is the true determination of value, then WAR above a certain number means you are in. Case closed. Just pick a number and voters are no longer necessary.

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by Bruinsfan94

I know we have a lot of 1800's guys here so can someone explain why Mcarthy is in the Hall? Clearly WAR can't be used as the end all be all, since the game is about as different as you can get then how it was played then.

McCarthy and Hugh Duffy were known as the "Heavenly Twins" when they starred for the championship Boston teams of the early 1890s, and were commonly linked together as good players who were also innovators in the way the game was played. McCarthy was widely thought to have invented the hit-and-run play, though modern research has shown that he did not actually do so. (He did probably help popularize it, and other tricks such as deliberately trapping balls in the outfield to force out a runner.)

McCarthy and Duffy were voted into the HOF in 1945-46 by the Veterans' Committee during a two-year period when the Hall inducted 21 new members, following a six-year break during World War II when it only inducted two. These 21 men inducted in 1945-46 were mostly from the 19th century and the dead-ball era, and they included several other players besides McCarthy whose qualifications might be questioned by modern observers, but who were seen at the time as pioneers or important figures in their day. These include Roger Bresnahan (a pretty good player who is basically in the HOF for inventing shin guards); Joe Tinker, Johnny Evers, and Frank Chance (all pretty good players on championship teams, stars in their day, but in the HOF for a poem); and Jack Chesbro (who had one monster year and several other very good ones, but who only pitched nine full seasons, and is in the HOF mainly for having the post-1900 record for single-season wins). Hugh Duffy arguably belongs in this group as well; he's a more legitimate HOFer than McCarthy, though not a slam-dunk by the numbers (.326 lifetime BA in a hitter's era, 43.0 lifetime WAR in 14 full seasons), and a big reason for his induction was probably his record for highest single-season batting average.

[53Browns]

I agree with Bill James, McCarthy is the worst player in the HOF. IMHO.

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by glchen

I think you're forgetting Tommy McCarthy of the 16.1 career WAR, so low he doesn't even make the top 1000 cutoff.

Frankly, I grew up during the age of those great Tiger teams of Trammell and Whitaker. I always thought of those two as solid All Stars, but not HOFer material. I thought those Tiger teams were led by Gibson and Morris, and Gibson will never sniff the Hall of Fame, and Morris might only get in through generosity of the Veteran's Committee. (Frankly, I think Morris deserves to get in.)

If you think Morris belongs and not Trammell/Whitaker, I simply cannot agree with that.

[egbeachley]

What there should be is a section at the Hall of Fame for "Hall of Fame Moments". That's where you could find Maz, Joe Carter, Vandermeer, etc. Would also take away the pressure of voting someone like Maz in.

[IMAXMAX]

The wayyy more interesting HOF:::
http://www.baseballreliquary.org/awa...-the-eternals/

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Jimmy Ryan


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rats60]

Originally Posted by baztacula

Rank------Player--------(yrs)----Career WAR
78.---Lou Whitaker------(19)---------74.9
93.---Alan Trammell----(20)---------70.4
604.--Bill Mazeroski-----(17)---------36.2 <---HOF

Ridiculous.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...R_career.shtml

It just shows what a joke WAR is

Ozzie Smith WAR 76.5 OPS+ 87
Bill Mazeroski WAR 36.2 OPS+ 84

According to BillJames, Mazeroski's defensive stats are the most impressive of any player in baseball history including Ozzie, yet WAR doesn't value defense at 2b. The real crime is that Mazeroski had to wait as long as he did while Ozzie was first ballot or guys like Maranville and Aparicio, both OPS+ 82 were elected by the BBWAA.

If I were to pick between Trammell, Whitaker and Mazeroski, I would take Mazeroski, he was the better player in my opinion and I think all 3 are Hofers. I believe all 3 will end up being elected by the veterans committee. It would be fitting if they chose to elect the 2 Tigers together.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by baztacula

Rank------Player--------(yrs)----Career WAR
78.---Lou Whitaker------(19)---------74.9
93.---Alan Trammell----(20)---------70.4
604.--Bill Mazeroski-----(17)---------36.2 <---HOF

Ridiculous.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...R_career.shtml

4---Barry Bonds---(22)----162.4

[ALR-bishop]

I think Doug might be wrong