OT: ESPN nukes the Patriots, Goodell

[the 'stache]

Roger and Bob. Thick as thieves? You be the judge.

Spygate to Deflategate: Inside what split the NFL and Patriots apart

I am certainly not a fan of ESPN, as I feel they have become, in general, hack sports journalists. But occasionally, their reporters do an article that just blows you away. This is one such piece. ESPN just dropped a bomb, and the fallout is going to be massive.

It now seems Roger Goodell's hyper-aggressive pursuit of Tom Brady vis a vis Deflategate was actually his attempt to save face with the other 31 NFL owners after his botched handling of Spygate. The four game suspension levied on Tom Brady was meant to be a form of retroactive punishment for the team. We know that evidence collected by the NFL during their first investigation of the Patriots was destroyed by Goodell. But now, it seems, we know why: ESPN's article accuses Goodell of being in collusion with Patriots owner Robert Kraft, and Head Coach Bill Belichick. The Commissioner and the NFL knowingly swept Spygate under the rug.

Goodell tried to assuage his bosses: He ordered the destruction of the tapes and notes, he insisted, so they couldn't be exploited again. Many in the room didn't believe it. And some would conclude it was as if Goodell, Kraft and Belichick had acted like partners, complicit in trying to sweep the scandal's details under the rug while the rest of the league was left wondering how much glory the Patriots' cheating had cost their teams. "Goodell didn't want anybody to know that his gold franchise had won Super Bowls by cheating," a senior executive whose team lost to the Patriots in a Super Bowl now says.

It appears that these accusations are well substantiated.

Interviews by ESPN The Magazine and Outside the Lines with more than 90 league officials, owners, team executives and coaches, current and former Patriots coaches, staffers and players, and reviews of previously undisclosed private notes from key meetings, show that Spygate is the centerpiece of a long, secret history between Goodell's NFL, which declined comment for this story, and Kraft's Patriots. The diametrically opposed way the inquiries were managed by Goodell -- and, more importantly, perceived by his bosses -- reveals much about how and why NFL punishment is often dispensed. The widespread perception that Goodell gave the Patriots a break on Spygate, followed by the NFL's stonewalling of a potential congressional investigation into the matter, shaped owners' expectations of what needed to be done by 345 Park Ave. on Deflategate.

It was, one owner says, time for "a makeup call."

Worst of all, there is much more to Spygate than has ever been public knowledge...until now.

Goodell had imposed a $500,000 fine on Belichick, a $250,000 fine on the team and the loss of a first-round draft pick just four days after league security officials had caught the Patriots and before he'd even sent a team of investigators to Foxborough, Massachusetts. Those investigators hadn't come up empty: Inside a room accessible only to Belichick and a few others, they found a library of scouting material containing videotapes of opponents' signals, with detailed notes matching signals to plays for many teams going back seven seasons. Among them were handwritten diagrams of the defensive signals of the Pittsburgh Steelers, including the notes used in the January 2002 AFC Championship Game won by the Patriots 24-17. Yet almost as quickly as the tapes and notes were found, they were destroyed, on Goodell's orders: League executives stomped the tapes into pieces and shredded the papers inside a Gillette Stadium conference room.

What happens from here? I don't know how Roger Goodell could possibly keep his position as NFL Commissioner.

As Rachel Maddow is so fond of saying, "Watch this space."

[rats60]

Goodell isn't going anywhere. He makes the owners too much money. He may look like a clown with the way he disciplines players and in the public's eye, but profits carry the day.

There is very little new here. You had to have your head buried in the sand to not understand how extensive the Patriots cheating was and still is. Other teams are now willing to talk about it now that the Patriots have got away with cheating agsin. It was obvious that Brady's suspension was payback for Spygate. Kraft is the new AL Davis. You have 31 owners pissed because they have been cheated by Kraft and the Patriots.

[packs]

I guess people are still just jealous of the Patriots and everything dirty is made up by Giants fans. Right?

[the 'stache]

We knew that the statement provided by Mike Martz was changed to include things he never said? Or, that the Patriots had seven years worth of film, covering some 40 games?

This is just the tip of the iceberg. I think more comes out, and it gets worse and worse for both the NFL and Kraft/Belichick.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

We knew that the statement provided by Mike Martz was changed to include things he never said? Or, that the Patriots had seven years worth of film, covering some 40 games?

This is just the tip of the iceberg. I think more comes out, and it gets worse and worse for both the NFL and Kraft/Belichick.

Kraft was reported to have been very upset with Belichick when Spygate was revealed and even called him a schmuck. Do you think this is fabricated and that Kraft was complicit?

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Kraft was reported to have been very upset with Belichick when Spygate was revealed and even called him a schmuck. Do you think this is fabricated and that Kraft was complicit?

Peter, if I'm an NFL owner, and I find out that my head coach is cheating, I can him immediately. Period. I don't call him "a schmuck", either behind closed doors, or in public. I show him the door. So, if that's all Kraft did, he put winning above his own integrity, and yes, I have to question his involvement.

It will be telling what happens from here. ESPN has just thrown down the gauntlet, accusing the NFL Commissioner, and the billionaire owner of the New England Patriots, of colluding to cover up evidence of rules violations. If there is not truth to the allegations--if all those people they "interviewed" don't exist, I would expect a libel suit to follow. If nothing happens, it's a form of passive acknowledgement that the accusations are, in fact, true.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Kraft was reported to have been very upset with Belichick when Spygate was revealed and even called him a schmuck. Do you think this is fabricated and that Kraft was complicit?

In context, he called him a schmuck simply because he knew he was lying to him. Or, if the advantage he stated he was accomplishing was true at such a high level of cheating it was pure incompetence.

Being mad that he didn't do better with the cheating advantage or honestly state that he did is not taking action and stopping the cheating or dismissing the guilty.

Is he 100% complicit by turning a blind eye and by lack of action allowing his team to maintain a current and past history of "bending" the rules like a spring willow branch?

Abso-freaking-lutely.

One does not hire a fox to guard the henhouse and be surprised at the results
unless he is an idiot.

Kraft's Patriots have consistently run under an algorithm of victories>honor. Buying the commissioner is just business as usual and the standard modus operandi.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

We knew that the statement provided by Mike Martz was changed to include things he never said? Or, that the Patriots had seven years worth of film, covering some 40 games?

This is just the tip of the iceberg. I think more comes out, and it gets worse and worse for both the NFL and Kraft/Belichick.

It should have been obvious that the Patriots had filmed 40+ games. There were complaints going back 7 years. Patriots' fans claims that it was only one game were beyond absurd.

Maybe not that Martz's statement was changed, but that it really wasn't true. You don't get cheated out of a SB ring and just be alright with it.

There is no doubt that Kraft knew some of what was going on before Spygate broke and was ok with the cheating. Other teams were complaining. The year before, the Packers caught them video taping. It took someone with inside knowledge, Jets coach, to finally get the NFL to act. Kraft was complicit in the cover up and allowed Belichick to keep his job. It's clear Kraft was ok with doing anything to win. Kraft is not stupid.

[Jeffrompa]

Ill be Brady's clown for 40 million a year . No problem . The whole thing was a farse in my opinion . No real penalty they knew what would happen in the end .

[steve B]

Taping other teams is common. The Pats kicked a Jets employee out of an un approved taping area before the whole spygate thing.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3151217

What got them in trouble was ignoring the info sent out by the league about where the allowed places were.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_N...ng_controversy

"After footage from the actual tape was aired on Fox NFL Sunday on September 16, former Dallas Cowboys head coach Jimmy Johnson claimed, "This is exactly how I was told to do it 18 years ago by a Kansas City Chiefs scout. I tried it, but I didn't think it helped us." Johnson also said, "Bill Belichick was wrong because he videotaped signals after a memo was sent out to all of the teams saying not to do it. But what irritates me is hearing some reactions from players and coaches. These players don't know what their coaches are doing. And some of the coaches have selective amnesia because I know for a fact there were various teams doing this. That's why the memo was sent to everybody. That doesn't make [Belichick] right, but a lot of teams are doing this."[23]"

I'd have to say that any team that doesn't change their signals somewhat regularly is pretty foolish. Especially if they use the same signals for over a year.


Oddly, Baseball teams formally exchange annotated video of every at bat.
One of the books I have talks about Varitek altering pitch signals based on a formula involving info from the scoreboard, so the signals varied according to the inning and situation. The complexity was to avoid someone stealing signals.

Steve B

[KCRfan1]

I tend to agree, there is no new news here. Teams have scouted each other for decades and will always try to get a leg up on the other team. Like them or not, the Pats win. Any " supposed " cheating is in the eye of the beholder. Too bad the other owners, all 31 of them, don't have the balls to come out publicly and voice their displeasure rather than have ESPN be the mouthpiece. It would have been more impactful if it's true.

[Runscott]

Thanks Bill, but too many fans think cheating is okay. Here's a pretty good description of our support of poor sportsmanship and cheating, and how it could be affecting today's youth. At best we as adults are setting bad examples - pro athletes by cheating and fans by putting up with it:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports...e34421199.html

[parkerj33]

I believe the point people are making in regards to "just one game" was the fact that only in one game (game 1, 2007) was it against the stated rules to videotape the way the pats were doing it. Up until that point it was legal, maybe not ethical, but legal, and many teams were doing it.

It has now been proven that Martz statement has not been doctored and has remained the same since 2008. (www.profootballtalk.com)

Still doesn't change his story that he was pressured to give the statement.

stealing and taping signals probably still occurs today, you just can't tape from directly on the sideline....

[rats60]

Originally Posted by parkerj33

I believe the point people are making in regards to "just one game" was the fact that only in one game (game 1, 2007) was it against the stated rules to videotape the way the pats were doing it. Up until that point it was legal, maybe not ethical, but legal, and many teams were doing it.

It has now been proven that Martz statement has not been doctored and has remained the same since 2008. (www.profootballtalk.com)

Still doesn't change his story that he was pressured to give the statement.

stealing and taping signals probably still occurs today, you just can't tape from directly on the sideline....

That is absolutely false. The NFL sent out a memo prior to the 2006 season reminding teams that this was illegal. The Patriots were caught taping in 2006 after the memo, but Goodell ignored the complaints. It was only when the Jets caught the Patriots cheating that the league punished the Patriots and Goodell covered up their 7 year history of cheating.

[Bored5000]

This goes for all the boards on which I post I post, not just this one. But ever since this scandal broke, and again over the past few days, I reflexively look to see if any poster defending the Patriots is from Massachusetts or New England at large.

The Patriots and the league both seem pretty hard to defend here, IMO.

[Joshchisox08]

Again how do people follow this profession???? Criminals, Crooks, it's always a three-ring circus.

Rape
Domestic Abuse
Murder
Weapons
Drugs
ROIDS
Dog Fighting

the list goes on and on. I can't fathom watching a profession with as much of the above listed as that. Every other day it's something new.

Can we also add in that there's about 5 minutes of "ACTUAL" game play during it's disgusting 3 hour game !!! The rest is staring at people on the side line, interviews, replays, etc.

Oh and they take 5 months to play 1 game a week and they play about 15 games a year !!!

Don't give me that crap that it's the roughest sport either. Hockey takes the cake for that. Through in the fact you can't even look at a QB without a flag.

But people like this ..........................

Rant over.

[kcohen]

Who is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to watch?

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by kcohen

Who is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to watch?

Based on his crime list, probably a football player!

[vintagesportscollector]

Football and baseball can both be snoozers. Various studies have shown that the actual action playing time in both a 3 hour football and 3 hour baseball game is about 11 minutes....that's why they invented beer and commercials.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by wolf441

Based on his crime list, probably a football player!

@ Steve BWWWWAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.

@ Ken I'm not watching it at all (trust me) just pointing out why I don't.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

Again how do people follow this profession???? Criminals, Crooks, it's always a three-ring circus.

Rape
Domestic Abuse
Murder
Weapons
Drugs
ROIDS
Dog Fighting

the list goes on and on. I can't fathom watching a profession with as much of the above listed as that. Every other day it's something new.

NFL = 21st CENTURY MOFIA = REALITY TV

Here's a Question for Ya...

"What Team is the LEAST CRIMINALISED TEAM iN the NFL?"

I don't know the answer RiGHT NoW... I have a Good Guess!

Anyone?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by irishdenny

NFL = 21st CENTURY MOFIA = REALITY TV

Here's a Question for Ya...

"What Team is the LEAST CRIMINALISED TEAM iN the NFL?"

I don't know the answer RiGHT NoW... I have a Good Guess!

Anyone?

It's got to be Tampa Bay. Or if they're doing stuff, they're doing it wrong.

Steve B

[granite75]

If George Carlin was alive, he'd have to redo his baseball vs football skit.

Football fans should be embarrassed by how the league and it's fans are in hysterics over the shocking realization that balls lose air when it's cold. Whining, crying babies that have to excuse away why their teams can't win with regularity.

Meanwhile, the Cardinals hack into an opponents computer system and the story dies within a day or two. No hysterics, wait for due process to take place.

Let's see, successful franchise, potentially committing a federal crime vs a successful franchise having cameras in the wrong position (taping signals was widespread and legal) and a few puffs of air.

I can't stand the NFL and am already dreading the end of the baseball season.


Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://theweek.com/articles/495902/e...heats-baseball

[ksabet]

I am a Bills fan and I would give anything for my team to cheat and win a Super Bowl. Every Patriots fan got to experience the joy of winning it all. So after the fact it came out is wasnt quite legit. Still doesn't take away the joy they felt that day.

This will not affect the legacy of Brady, Belichick or the Patriots.