OT: ESPN nukes the Patriots, Goodell
 

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/1127/WGRWC1.jpg
Roger and Bob. Thick as thieves? You be the judge.

Spygate to Deflategate: Inside what split the NFL and Patriots apart

I am certainly not a fan of ESPN, as I feel they have become, in general, hack sports journalists. But occasionally, their reporters do an article that just blows you away. This is one such piece. ESPN just dropped a bomb, and the fallout is going to be massive.

It now seems Roger Goodell's hyper-aggressive pursuit of Tom Brady vis a vis Deflategate was actually his attempt to save face with the other 31 NFL owners after his botched handling of Spygate. The four game suspension levied on Tom Brady was meant to be a form of retroactive punishment for the team. We know that evidence collected by the NFL during their first investigation of the Patriots was destroyed by Goodell. But now, it seems, we know why: ESPN's article accuses Goodell of being in collusion with Patriots owner Robert Kraft, and Head Coach Bill Belichick. The Commissioner and the NFL knowingly swept Spygate under the rug.

It appears that these accusations are well substantiated.

Worst of all, there is much more to Spygate than has ever been public knowledge...until now.

What happens from here? I don't know how Roger Goodell could possibly keep his position as NFL Commissioner.

As Rachel Maddow is so fond of saying, "Watch this space."

Goodell isn't going anywhere. He makes the owners too much money. He may look like a clown with the way he disciplines players and in the public's eye, but profits carry the day.

There is very little new here. You had to have your head buried in the sand to not understand how extensive the Patriots cheating was and still is. Other teams are now willing to talk about it now that the Patriots have got away with cheating agsin. It was obvious that Brady's suspension was payback for Spygate. Kraft is the new AL Davis. You have 31 owners pissed because they have been cheated by Kraft and the Patriots.

We knew that the statement provided by Mike Martz was changed to include things he never said? Or, that the Patriots had seven years worth of film, covering some 40 games?

This is just the tip of the iceberg. I think more comes out, and it gets worse and worse for both the NFL and Kraft/Belichick.

I guess people are still just jealous of the Patriots and everything dirty is made up by Giants fans. Right?

Kraft was reported to have been very upset with Belichick when Spygate was revealed and even called him a schmuck. Do you think this is fabricated and that Kraft was complicit?

Peter, if I'm an NFL owner, and I find out that my head coach is cheating, I can him immediately. Period. I don't call him "a schmuck", either behind closed doors, or in public. I show him the door. So, if that's all Kraft did, he put winning above his own integrity, and yes, I have to question his involvement.

It will be telling what happens from here. ESPN has just thrown down the gauntlet, accusing the NFL Commissioner, and the billionaire owner of the New England Patriots, of colluding to cover up evidence of rules violations. If there is not truth to the allegations--if all those people they "interviewed" don't exist, I would expect a libel suit to follow. If nothing happens, it's a form of passive acknowledgement that the accusations are, in fact, true.

It should have been obvious that the Patriots had filmed 40+ games. There were complaints going back 7 years. Patriots' fans claims that it was only one game were beyond absurd.

Maybe not that Martz's statement was changed, but that it really wasn't true. You don't get cheated out of a SB ring and just be alright with it.

There is no doubt that Kraft knew some of what was going on before Spygate broke and was ok with the cheating. Other teams were complaining. The year before, the Packers caught them video taping. It took someone with inside knowledge, Jets coach, to finally get the NFL to act. Kraft was complicit in the cover up and allowed Belichick to keep his job. It's clear Kraft was ok with doing anything to win. Kraft is not stupid.

Ill be Brady's clown for 40 million a year . No problem . The whole thing was a farse in my opinion . No real penalty they knew what would happen in the end .

Taping other teams is common. The Pats kicked a Jets employee out of an un approved taping area before the whole spygate thing.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3151217

What got them in trouble was ignoring the info sent out by the league about where the allowed places were.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_N...ng_controversy

"After footage from the actual tape was aired on Fox NFL Sunday on September 16, former Dallas Cowboys head coach Jimmy Johnson claimed, "This is exactly how I was told to do it 18 years ago by a Kansas City Chiefs scout. I tried it, but I didn't think it helped us." Johnson also said, "Bill Belichick was wrong because he videotaped signals after a memo was sent out to all of the teams saying not to do it. But what irritates me is hearing some reactions from players and coaches. These players don't know what their coaches are doing. And some of the coaches have selective amnesia because I know for a fact there were various teams doing this. That's why the memo was sent to everybody. That doesn't make [Belichick] right, but a lot of teams are doing this."[23]"

I'd have to say that any team that doesn't change their signals somewhat regularly is pretty foolish. Especially if they use the same signals for over a year.


Oddly, Baseball teams formally exchange annotated video of every at bat.
One of the books I have talks about Varitek altering pitch signals based on a formula involving info from the scoreboard, so the signals varied according to the inning and situation. The complexity was to avoid someone stealing signals.

Steve B

Thanks Bill, but too many fans think cheating is okay. Here's a pretty good description of our support of poor sportsmanship and cheating, and how it could be affecting today's youth. At best we as adults are setting bad examples - pro athletes by cheating and fans by putting up with it:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports...e34421199.html

I believe the point people are making in regards to "just one game" was the fact that only in one game (game 1, 2007) was it against the stated rules to videotape the way the pats were doing it. Up until that point it was legal, maybe not ethical, but legal, and many teams were doing it.

It has now been proven that Martz statement has not been doctored and has remained the same since 2008. (www.profootballtalk.com)

Still doesn't change his story that he was pressured to give the statement.

stealing and taping signals probably still occurs today, you just can't tape from directly on the sideline....

In context, he called him a schmuck simply because he knew he was lying to him. Or, if the advantage he stated he was accomplishing was true at such a high level of cheating it was pure incompetence.

Being mad that he didn't do better with the cheating advantage or honestly state that he did is not taking action and stopping the cheating or dismissing the guilty.

Is he 100% complicit by turning a blind eye and by lack of action allowing his team to maintain a current and past history of "bending" the rules like a spring willow branch?

Abso-freaking-lutely.

One does not hire a fox to guard the henhouse and be surprised at the results
unless he is an idiot.

Kraft's Patriots have consistently run under an algorithm of victories>honor. Buying the commissioner is just business as usual and the standard modus operandi.

I tend to agree, there is no new news here. Teams have scouted each other for decades and will always try to get a leg up on the other team. Like them or not, the Pats win. Any " supposed " cheating is in the eye of the beholder. Too bad the other owners, all 31 of them, don't have the balls to come out publicly and voice their displeasure rather than have ESPN be the mouthpiece. It would have been more impactful if it's true.

That's why we're not talking about it.

Touche.....

ESPN is, and has been, in Goodell's back pocket all along. To think that they "dropped a bomb on Goodell and the Patriots" ? Please. Goodell sanctioned this story to avoid Kraft (in his position as one of the top two most powerful owners) from leading the charge to have Goodell canned after Brady won his appeal. We already know that Kraft has stated that he now regrets not fighting the penalties to the team.

Kraft can't endorse firing Goodell now or he will look like he's reacting to this story. There's no real new information here. All the story does is tie Kraft and Goodell to the same achor and if Goodell is thrown overboard, he's taking Kraft to the bottom with him.

Taping signals, under/over inflating footballs, messing with the visitors speakers... I'm betting that this is done by every team in the league or at least those that are smart enough to change their signals during the year (that explains why the Patiots beat up on the Dolphins and Bills every year).

The Raiders of the 1970's used to tape the visitors locker room and shut off the hot water. The 1970's Steelers were the first team to use steriods in a major way. The 1970-'80's Dolphins had a head coach who was also chair of the rules committee (and Shula is a giant a-Hole, who ran a terrible chain of steakhouses, but I digress). the Cowboys and 49ers of the 1990's were the first to learn and best to employ measures to take advantage of the salary cap.

The whole issue is that the media hates Belichik because he won't give them anything useful. Non Patriot football fans hate the Patriots because they win so much and hate Brady because he's married to a supermodel and doesn't do 500 commercials like "aw shucks" Peyton Manning.

Spygate? DeflateGate? How about JealousyGate.

It doesn't help that ESPN and NFL Network have about 20 former players working for them that were all whupped by the Pats at one time or another....

That is absolutely false. The NFL sent out a memo prior to the 2006 season reminding teams that this was illegal. The Patriots were caught taping in 2006 after the memo, but Goodell ignored the complaints. It was only when the Jets caught the Patriots cheating that the league punished the Patriots and Goodell covered up their 7 year history of cheating.

[QUOTE=wolf441;145081


Spygate? DeflateGate? How about JealousyGate.

...[/QUOTE]

No jealousy here. It makes our SB wins much more special. Beating cheaters who couldn't cheat enough to win.

Illegal taping, steroids, trimming cards, shilling auctions, what's the difference? None.

It's hilarious how the Patriots live rent-free in the heads of the owners and the haters.

This goes for all the boards on which I post I post, not just this one. But ever since this scandal broke, and again over the past few days, I reflexively look to see if any poster defending the Patriots is from Massachusetts or New England at large.

The Patriots and the league both seem pretty hard to defend here, IMO.

Spare us the sanctimony.
http://yourteamcheats.com/NYG

Sanctimony? Better on the pedestal than under it. I believe that most fans are more likely to defend their own team against cheating than others, but I'd rather see someone speak out against cheating that have to keep listening to the same old excuses that 'everyone does it' or that 'it isn't that big of a deal'.

I doubt that many, if any, read the article in the link I posted, so I'll mention that one of the things McGrath pointed out (whether or not it's true, I don't know) is that Goodell's punishing Brady and the Patriots might have been too severe because it was tossing a bone to the other owners who had put up with him looking the other way for so many years.

NM...

Scott I am not condoning cheating but his post strongly suggested his own team was above the fray (we beat those cheaters) so yes it was sanctimonious.

NM...

How about 3 out of 5 (and I'm being generous) of the offensive lineman clearly holding as Eli performed his Houdini act on the David Tyree catch? :D

Now, credit where credit is due, 2011 was a solid win by the NYG.

I find patriot fans very funny. They support their team and make excuses for everytime the patriots are caught cheating and just can't admit that they were caught.

We're still waiting to see your N54 posts regarding Pettite, Clemens, Arod, etc. cheating while the Yankees were winning WS titles. You must have posted something since this cheating stuff seems to bother you so much.

[QUOTE=DanP;1450890]We're still waiting to see your N54 posts regarding Pettite, Clemens, Arod, etc. cheating while the Yankees were winning WS titles. You must have posted something since this cheating stuff seems to bother you so much.[/QUOTE


There's a huge difference. I've admitted that my team has had cheaters before. And currently I don't root for A-rod at all, I wish the Yankees released him.

There is no jealousy in facts. The Patriots are lame cheaters. That is a fact. They don't think they can win on their own, so they cheat. It happens at the top and trickles on down to the players. Pointing at some Giants who were suspended for PEDs and unsubstantiated rumors of listening in on teams once in 2001 has no direct relation or correlation to what the Patriots have always done and continue to do.

The fact that the Pats win, and win a lot, tells me they are a very good team with talent. This has become more of a head game now than anything else for NE.

NM....

Believe it or not, we never had a cookie jar.

Again how do people follow this profession???? Criminals, Crooks, it's always a three-ring circus.

Rape
Domestic Abuse
Murder
Weapons
Drugs
ROIDS
Dog Fighting

the list goes on and on. I can't fathom watching a profession with as much of the above listed as that. Every other day it's something new.

Can we also add in that there's about 5 minutes of "ACTUAL" game play during it's disgusting 3 hour game !!! The rest is staring at people on the side line, interviews, replays, etc.

Oh and they take 5 months to play 1 game a week and they play about 15 games a year !!!

Don't give me that crap that it's the roughest sport either. Hockey takes the cake for that. Through in the fact you can't even look at a QB without a flag.

But people like this ..........................

Rant over.

Who is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to watch?

Based on his crime list, probably a football player! :D:D:D

Football and baseball can both be snoozers. Various studies have shown that the actual action playing time in both a 3 hour football and 3 hour baseball game is about 11 minutes....that's why they invented beer and commercials.

Thanks for not getting upset with my smart-allec post. In our family I got blamed for taking the cookies, regardless of who had crumbs on their lips.

@ Steve BWWWWAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.

@ Ken I'm not watching it at all (trust me) just pointing out why I don't.

If George Carlin was alive, he'd have to redo his baseball vs football skit.

Football fans should be embarrassed by how the league and it's fans are in hysterics over the shocking realization that balls lose air when it's cold. Whining, crying babies that have to excuse away why their teams can't win with regularity.

Meanwhile, the Cardinals hack into an opponents computer system and the story dies within a day or two. No hysterics, wait for due process to take place.

Let's see, successful franchise, potentially committing a federal crime vs a successful franchise having cameras in the wrong position (taping signals was widespread and legal) and a few puffs of air.

I can't stand the NFL and am already dreading the end of the baseball season.


Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

I am a Bills fan and I would give anything for my team to cheat and win a Super Bowl. Every Patriots fan got to experience the joy of winning it all. So after the fact it came out is wasnt quite legit. Still doesn't take away the joy they felt that day.

This will not affect the legacy of Brady, Belichick or the Patriots.

LOL, no problem

Funny story my friends and I are all NY Giants fans. I asked two of them (who are both rational and not extreme Patriots haters) what they thought about this. Both said "what is the big deal? They let some air out of a few footballs. Who cares?" which is pretty much what I've been saying. Then I asked my accountant who is also a Giants fan but hates the Patriots. He went nuts! Those cheaters.......". Well, I guess you get the point.

As I said earlier, the only people who seem to think this is a big deal are most likely Patriots or Brady haters or both. I'd prefer to start thinking about the new season and the big year I'm hoping from the Giants. If they deflate a few footballs on their way to another Super Bowl that's fine with me.

“The New England Patriots have never filmed or recorded another team’s practice or walkthrough. The first time we ever heard of such an accusation came in 2008, the day before Super Bowl XLII, when the Boston Herald reported an allegation from a disgruntled former employee. That report created a media firestorm that extended globally and was discussed incessantly for months. It took four months before that newspaper retracted its story and offered the team a front and back page apology for the damage done. Clearly, the damage has been irreparable. As recently as last month, over seven years after the retraction and apology was issued, ESPN issued the following apology to the Patriots for continuing to perpetuate the myth: ‘On two occasions in recent weeks, SportsCenter incorrectly cited a 2002 report regarding the New England Patriots and Super Bowl XXXVI. That story was found to be false, and should not have been part of our reporting. We apologize to the Patriots organization.’

“This type of reporting over the past seven years has led to additional unfounded, unwarranted and, quite frankly, unbelievable allegations by former players, coaches and executives. None of which have ever been substantiated, but many of which continue to be propagated. The New England Patriots are led by an owner whose well-documented efforts on league wide initiatives—from TV contracts to preventing a work stoppage—have earned him the reputation as one of the best in the NFL. For the past 16 years, the Patriots have been led by one of the league’s all-time greatest coaches and one of its alltime greatest quarterbacks. It is disappointing that some choose to believe in myths, conjecture and rumors rather than giving credit for the team’s successes to Coach Belichick, his staff and the players for their hard work, attention to detail, methodical weekly preparation, diligence and overall performance.”

Espn
 

I think the entire smear show could have looked a wee bit more convincing if the Commish had waited until maybe 10:00 or at least 9:30 to appear on the network. Really looks like the jilted girlfriend or "hell hath no fury" routine to me. But expect more of these types of stories the rest of the season.

Just expect Belichik, Brady and the Pats to be in full F U mode all season. Winning 48-10 mid 4th quarter? Seems like about time for a flea flicker...:D

Back in the '90s, anyone who thought the Cowboys players doing drugs must have been a Cowboys hater or Michael Irvin hater, or both.

Anyone who ever disagrees with me must just hate men, or me, or both.

Sometimes people just disagree with you and it might be because you're wrong. Maybe not, but it might be.

Yeah Scott, I'll give you that. I could be wrong. I forgot that it also could be:

You wished you looked like Tom Brady or had his $$
You wished your wife look like Gisele
You're upset that your team stinks so you have to find someway to make others unhappy also

I'm sure there's more, so I could be wrong again.

All in fun!! I'm expecting a surprise big year from the Giants this year!

NFL = 21st CENTURY MOFIA = REALITY TV

Here's a Question for Ya...

"What Team is the LEAST CRIMINALISED TEAM iN the NFL?"

I don't know the answer RiGHT NoW... I have a Good Guess!

Anyone?

I'll give you the money. I think we would all love to have his money to spend on more cardboard. The other 3, i would say you are wrong.