proof uncut sheet in Hunt's

[Bicem]

Was just curious as to what people thought about this piece...

Big price.

[Jay Wolt]

I know nothing about it, but it sorta looks like a fantasy piece

[bobbvc]

Ty Cobb and Joe Jackson look like Joe Jackson. Seriously though, very nice piece and if you have an extra 40K lying around, why not? That said, don't know anything about it's origin.

[Tao_Moko]

Schardt is an unfortunate name. Very cool piece.

[ullmandds]

CRAZY!!!!!! Totally looks like a fantasy piece...maybe older fantasy piece if origin claim is correct...but does not appear to be period to me?

[bobfreedman]

I had originally thought it was a Helmar repro type piece that possibly was done in the late 70's - 90's.

[gnaz01]

WOW!!!!

[Jobu]

My first thought was fantasy piece too though I have no idea what this is. One reason I wonder is the inconsistent use of first names. Also, some names are black on very dark backgrounds and are hard to read. Do any of the printing guys see anything about the ink, paper, whether or not that font existed in the teens, etc that might suggest when this was made?

The cop/guard behind Davis is awesome - does anyone know if these images are based on real photos?

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Jobu

My first thought was fantasy piece too though I have no idea what this is. One reason I wonder is the inconsistent use of first names. Also, some names are black on very dark backgrounds and are hard to read. Do any of the printing guys see anything about the ink, paper, whether or not that font existed in the teens, etc that might suggest when this was made?

The cop/guard behind Davis is awesome - does anyone know if these images are based on real photos?

There have been a lot of fantasy pieces cropping up such that I am really cautious on anything like this. A number of Mantle pieces are trying to mimic the attributes of the '61 Mantle dice card.....and the cards looked pretty nice too.

Z

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

I had originally thought it was a Helmar repro type piece that possibly was done in the late 70's - 90's.

That is what Scott B and I thought too. Good luck with that...

[DixieBaseball]

It's a beautiful piece! It feels like to me it was a piece done in the late 40's or early 50's in color! My favorite is Hub Perdue in sweater. Great image I have never seen before... Very unusual and interesting piece. If its period, its a good price in my opinion. If it is done 20-30 yrs later, its worth a fraction of that... Just not sure. It still looks great and new poses. My question to the forum is does anyone see a pose they recognize from an old picture?

Is that Frank Baker front on view from this E96 side view? I feel like I am looking at a Philly Caramel Front and Side view. (Front being proof)

[pawpawdiv9]

I PM'ed Leon about this piece earlier in the auction, but held to not 'out' the auction to to learn about what it is from the experts on this board. I bidded on 2 items and got 1 last night (Banks RC) I was watching those Wagner pieces, thinking they were nice.
As for this, the decription said maybe American Caramel or close to it. I too thought maybe one of those Helmar pieces i see often in Ebay. Anyways its a nice vibrant colorful piece whatever it is.
I didnt even know its the only piece with Cobb and Joe together.

[ullmandds]

Regardless of what it is...I don't think the buyer will ever recoup his/her losses on this one!!!!

[edjs]

These remind me of the 1936 Pastels, except for the player names. Could they be a proof for a subsequent set or a rejected prototype?

[Bridwell]

It seems too good to be true. A few things made me think twice about bidding. The images are fuzzy, as if somebody reproduced from original photos, but in slightly lower resolution. There were some techniques where B&W photos were "colorized" with color added on top of a sepia or B&W photo. That could have been done anytime in the last 100 years. The cream colored stock and wear on the back is just what you would use if you were creating something to look old. It's surprising the front is in such mint condition, as if the front was glued onto an older back stock. A lot of B&W photos of the old timers are appearing lately. A lot of new and interesting poses I had never seen before. So these could be unique photos from someone's private collection where they created a fantasy piece. Also there's no connection to a product or advertiser. Lots of questions.

[Runscott]

Agreed on the 'fantasy piece' look. I think many of us could tell easily with a magnifier, if in hand.

[VintageBall]

Who makes a fantasy piece with Schardt and Otis?



Robert S

[packs]

If you look through Helmar's product line you'll see plenty of low tier guys who they made cards for.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by VintageBall

Who makes a fantasy piece with Schardt and Otis?

to make it seem more believable, plus Schardt dates the piece to 1911-12. The number of superstars as related to the other players is way high, which makes it less believable as a prototype for cards. As far as a prototype for candy boxes, etc., the Otis, Schardt and several other cards would never have appeared on candy boxes - way too obscure. Actually, same is true for almost any 1911-12-ish non-tobacco issue. Just too few players in most sets to include guys that obscure.

[packs]

My problem with pieces like this is that, even if authentic to the period, there's no indication as far as I can tell that these cards were meant for distribution or even had a sponsor for whatever set this was a proof of.

So my question is: if I print up a bunch of cards at my house, and 100 years later someone finds them, are they valuable?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by packs

My problem with pieces like this is that, even if authentic to the period, there's no indication as far as I can tell that these cards were meant for distribution or even had a sponsor for whatever set this was a proof of.

So my question is: if I print up a bunch of cards at my house, and 100 years later someone finds them, are they valuable?

Yes. Stuff like that has sold for decent bucks, depending on visual appeal. There was an interesting set of home-made 1940-ish football cards that did pretty well a few years ago.

[BeanTown]

Has anyone tried to contact the owner of Helmar to ask if they made/designed that piece? Its a work of art and they would be proud of it. I think some Helmar cards sold in an REA auction if I recall correctly. When in doubt, go to the source and ask.