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#1
11-01-2012, 08:41 PM
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How Far does the CU dictatorship go to silence whisleblowers?
updateIn light of being banned on the CU board for questioning the possible corruption that goes on concerning the questionable and favorable grades that big clients and consignors like Probenstein seem to mysteriously accuire over and over,
I was wondering just how far the CU board Mods would go to make those who question their authority disappear? With their Ironfisted refusal to allow ANY kind of transparent discussion to address the concerns and legitimate questions the collecting community might have concerning the possible fraud and corruption I wanted them to address, It became even more obvious that there was something more to my "Banning" than.... "Your looking to start trouble by posting unfounded conspiracy therories" I hadn't checked in awhile, but it now seems they have also removed my 1972 Topps Football set from the PSA Set Registry. It was setting at #2 for the longest time. It actually hit #1 briefly for a few days. Why would they do this? What was it that they feared so much that they felt the need to try and silence me and completely make me disappear? Spite? I did ream the Mods ass when they emailed me to ask if I wanted them to contact any of the board members I had deals going with. I basicaly told them that I would rather the deals fall through rather than have a liar and cheat like you speaking for me. Conspiracy Theories? We all know the Trimmed Hornus Wagner card was conviently overlooked in order to get it into a PSA holder for the noterity and exposure it would bring the company. Your Top graders unknowenly misgrade a card of that stature? I wasn't telling anybody nothing new here. "Conspiracy Theory?" Joe Orlando's famous speech about how PSA would NEVER go to the half grade system (thus validating SGC which already had the 1/2 grades) Only to flip flop on the issue when he realized what a money grab it would be by sticking it to PSA collectors by baiting them into paying a second time to have cards "Reviewed" Surely this was obvious to everyone, even the PSA apologists had to know this. "Conspiracy Theory?" The mysterious top grades Demetri Young had on weak cards? Again a High profile celebrity collector with some "favorable" Grades "Conspiracy Theory?" Maybe. The Multitude of weak cards in PSA 10 holders that seem to be available from 4 sharp corners. "conspiracy Theory?" Again Maybe. The Probenstein PSA 8 Art Shell Rookie that mysteriously became a PSA 10 in a matter of days? "Conspiracy Theory?" I think it a legitimate question and concern that any respectable company would look to openly address and explain. By banning any and all who raise these concerns it only adds fuel to the fire and cast even more suspicions that there is something more going on. In todays world of Greed, Fraud and corruption, its getting harder and harder to believe that the company that initially sought to proect the hobby has somehow now fallen prey to the very things it once set out protect against. john cla.yes Last edited by BigRedOne; 11-02-2012 at 05:05 AM. Reason: update 
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#2
11-01-2012, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
__________________
Leon Luckey
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#4
11-01-2012, 09:20 PM
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Welcome to the board. If you do some searching here you will find many threads about those same issues. Just remember that Joe O does read this board so be careful of any slander. Even though it may be truthful you can still be liable. Kinda amazing what a lot of money will do for you huh.
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#5
11-01-2012, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
That's not true concerning libel. The truth is an absolute defense. That being said it can (and usually is) expensive to defend oneself even if you have done nothing wrong. And one other thing I should mention, after thinking a bit, I guess there could be a situation where someone bringing a false claim could be liable for legal fees of the other party? I ain't know lawyer (sic)  .
__________________
Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 11-01-2012 at 09:57 PM.
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#6
11-01-2012, 09:45 PM
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Welcome BigRedOne and yes there was a good thread over here about the Art Shell after it was deleted over on CU. We still never heard anything back from PSA about that card and the 6-7 other questionable cards that were all bumped by as you said a big submitter during the National.
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#7
11-02-2012, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
I'm not a lawyer either, but since you're a Texan like me, I do know a few things about Texas laws regarding libel. First, yes truth is an absolute defense and along with a fair comment on a public controversy. Both have been codified in Texas Civil P&R Code 73 . Second, you'll be happy to know in June 2011, Texas adopted an Anti-SLAPP law which can fend off frivolous harassment suits in their early stages and if you prevail, the other party is liable for your attorneys fees. Here's a link: http://slappedintexas.com/primer/ As for the initial thread, yes I agree that PSA has some major problems as pointed out. The biggest problem in my opinion is that certain parties have been successfully aesthetically enhancing cards to increase their value and getting the cards graded into PSA holders. Sadly people are buying these cards with no knowledge of these alterations. The big question that begs to be asked is how legitimate is a grading service when its nothing more than a means of facilitating the sale of altered cards for people who fail to disclose these alterations? At what point do regulatory agencies and law enforcement step in and challenge the grading companies to show that they are making some effort to offer the service they claim to provide?
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#8
11-02-2012, 08:49 AM
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Perhaps it is possible for a card in an 8 holder to be regraded a 10, but in the case of the Art Shell card in question it did not merit a 10 grade. Even from a scan there were minute flaws that could be easily detected with the naked eye.
So the issue isn't is it possible for an 8 to be regraded a 10, which I imagine in rare cases could happen, but why did that particular card receive a 10? That's the issue we've been debating.
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#9
11-02-2012, 05:47 PM
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But this thread is comical to me. All I can say is: Welcome to 3rd party grading!
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#10
11-02-2012, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Doug
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#11
11-02-2012, 12:54 AM
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As long as people want to brag about having the best condition cards, as ranked by the people who get paid to tell you what condition your cards are in, then none of the things that you (validly) complain about will ever change. Quote:
Is that what they initially sought to do? Ok, sure. But, what was it you (and the FBI) said about that very first card that they graded... Happy collecting, Doug "I spend my money on cards, not opinions" Goodman PS - welcome to Net54 Last edited by doug.goodman; 11-02-2012 at 01:03 AM.
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#12
11-02-2012, 03:55 AM
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I appriciate you guy's input.
While the vast majority of my collection is raw, I picked a few sets to do graded as I can appriciate how nicely they can present. While yes I did pay for those "opinons", I was never caught up in the Registry Ego or "Bragging" rights as you put it. Most of the cards were self submitted from my own personal set, And it just so happend it landed high in the registry. Weather it raw or graded I was proud of that set indeed. Thanks for setting me straight Doug! I now have seen the light! Im pretty proud of the work Ive done over the last 30 years on my Raw sets and none more so than my Mint 72 Sunoco Stamp Set. You are right that I don't need to pay anyone to tell me what I already know here. After all the hard work I put into one of my all-time favorite childhood sets....... Yea.... I do want to show it off and brag about it a little bit. A few of my favorites:   
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#13
11-02-2012, 04:35 AM
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I don't think
I dont think They are as corrupt as they are incompetent. I have a bigger problem with corruption than incompetence. Though I am not a fan of either. I also believe a lot of people consign their mistakes to places like probstein so they have more annonimity when selling. Mistakes meaning over grades or even sometimes graded altered cards, I have heard of some people doing this that is why you see some people that sell on eBay also consignto some of these places. In probsteins defense they do offer a nice service for a very reasonable price, so some people give them stuff because they are small and can't handle all the listing and shipping on their own. For the record I have never consigned to probstein but would consider it in the future. again having submitted over a thousand cards at a time on numerous occasions and also having worked for one of their biggest dealers, I have NEVER seen any evidence of favoritism from PSA, I do think they have better access to getting cards reviewed but I do not think you get favoritism.
Last edited by glynparson; 11-02-2012 at 04:43 AM.
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#14
11-02-2012, 04:50 AM
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"your looking to start trouble by posting unfounded conspiracy therories."
I would never want to post on a message board that can't correctly spell "you're" and "theories." That's the real problem. And "Big Red One" still hasn't put his name out. Please do so. Last edited by barrysloate; 11-02-2012 at 04:52 AM.
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#15
11-02-2012, 05:12 AM
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Ahhh! teh ole grammarr(2 r's?) Polelice.... Wait.... Polease..... Wait P..o? Wait aminute.... Poleast.... No that not wright.. POLIGHTS? Aw shucks! i'd bst just go wit Coop..... Wait.... COPE.... Dam it..... COPS.... YESSSSS!
John
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#16
11-02-2012, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Also, I never said there was anything wrong with bragging about your cards, I do it all the time. But don't be embarrassed to admit to it. I don't know exactly how the registry system works, but I find it slightly alarming that after paying for 351 opinions (assuming google is correct about the number of cards in the set) the people who get paid for opinions took it upon themselves to add you to their list of sets that they liked without your permission, since you say "it just so happened". I dedicate my new nickname to Barry... Doug "I try to use the correct words and spell check in both my posts and my quotes" Goodman Last edited by doug.goodman; 11-02-2012 at 11:56 AM.
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#17
11-02-2012, 12:29 PM
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I can't tell the difference between a 9 and a 10. I've never received a "10" on a grade, but many modern cards I have received "9's". Big difference in $$$$$$. I'm not sending in anymore modern cards hoping for a "10".
Also on vintage cards, why do some come back "1" or "2" and others come back "Authentic " and they look the same ? What is the difference between a "1" which is beat up and another that is "A" ?
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Hybrid Mode
