Wagner??

[Forever Young]

Attached is a September 18th, 1908 photo of Bresnahan Catching against a "lefty" batter. Is this the only known photo of Honus Wagner batting left handed? What are your thoughts?

[David Atkatz]

I'm not a Wagner expert. Was he known to have batted lefthanded?

[howard38]

/

[mr2686]

I found this online and assume they were talking about this photo since the photo itself did not come up. Take it for what it's worth:
Larry Larse at a Simnasium.com forum posted this Photo of Hall-of-Famer, Honus Wagner, a right handed hitter, batting left handed. Hall of Fame catcher Roger Bresnahan is also shown in this photo, making it even more disirable. This photo was shown to SABR (The Society for American Baseball Research), where both Wagner and Bresnahan were identified in the photo. Apparently, Wagner did, on very rare occasions, bat left handed out of frustration, when he was having a particularly bad day at the plate. This is the only known photo of the “Flying Dutchman” hitting from the left side. This at bat was captured at the Polo Grounds during a Giants-Pirates game on Sept. 18, 1908.

I found that here: http://www.halfwaytoconcord.com/honu...g-left-handed/

[mr2686]

Ben, is this one you just picked up?

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by mr2686

I found this online and assume they were talking about this photo since the photo itself did not come up. Take it for what it's worth:
Larry Larse at a Simnasium.com forum posted this Photo of Hall-of-Famer, Honus Wagner, a right handed hitter, batting left handed. Hall of Fame catcher Roger Bresnahan is also shown in this photo, making it even more disirable. This photo was shown to SABR (The Society for American Baseball Research), where both Wagner and Bresnahan were identified in the photo. Apparently, Wagner did, on very rare occasions, bat left handed out of frustration, when he was having a particularly bad day at the plate. This is the only known photo of the “Flying Dutchman” hitting from the left side. This at bat was captured at the Polo Grounds during a Giants-Pirates game on Sept. 18, 1908.

I found that here: http://www.halfwaytoconcord.com/honu...g-left-handed/

Wow, if that story proves true then it's a fantastic piece.

[Lordstan]

From the side view, the face does look like Hans, but I am surprised that he is that slender across the shoulder.
Great pic Ben.

[thxforthebp]

I am not claiming to be a Wagner expect but after reviewing the photo if I were a betting man I would put my money on that it is not Honus Wagner. If you compare what you can see of the batters face the small amount that you can alongside a more recent card showing Owen Wilsons face the similarities are striking although his nose is similar to Wagners, it has more of a pronounced hook to the tip much like the batter. The other facts that lead me to the conclusion that is most likely not Wagner is a comparison of the batters legs. The photos I have reviewed of full body shots of Wagner show that he has a thicker build broader shoulders as stated by others, but he has thicker calves than the batter as well. Know to be barrel chested if this was Wagner is almost like a pre and post steroid allegation Barry Bonds comparison of the two different players in question. The batters build is simply too small to be Wagner.
Attached are photos for comparison

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by thxforthebp

I am not claiming to be a Wagner expect but after reviewing the photo if I were a betting man I would put my money on that it is not Honus Wagner. If you compare what you can see of the batters face the small amount that you can alongside a more recent card showing Owen Wilsons face the similarities are striking although his nose is similar to Wagners, it has more of a pronounced hook to the tip much like the batter. The other facts that lead me to the conclusion that is most likely not Wagner is a comparison of the batters legs. The photos I have reviewed of full body shots of Wagner show that he has a thicker build broader shoulders as stated by others, but he has thicker calves than the batter as well. Know to be barrel chested if this was Wagner is almost like a pre and post steroid allegation Barry Bonds comparison of the two different players in question. The batters build is simply too small to be Wagner.
Attached are photos for comparison

I hear you on the bulkier pics but not the nose. The batters nose looks nothing like wilson's to me. Below is a 1908 Wagner without a big sweater on. His calves look pretty much the same. http://ourgame.mlblogs.com/2012/03/1...etrics-part-i/

[yanks12025]

How would the shoes decide it's Wagner? I'm sure the socks were issued with the uniforms, so then all Pirates players would have the same type of socks.

And how did the SABR decide it was Wagner?

[CW]

The socks won't decide it's Wagner, but it could be a clue.

[Wite3]

He means the way the socks are worn...some players wore their pants longer, socks down, etc.

Joshua

PS I vote not wagner...sure with I could read the inscription...sul at bat still does not make sense because sullivan is a righty also.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Wite3

He means the way the socks are worn...some players wore their pants longer, socks down, etc.

Joshua

PS I vote not wagner...sure with I could read the inscription...sul at bat still does not make sense because sullivan is a righty also.

I am trying to be objective(seeing as I have the photo). I would obviously love it to be Wagner(no doubt). I definitely see nothing that disputes it being Wagner other than simple opinions. The biggest arument is the batter's build(not sure it is off). Everyone has their opinion but I am sure SABR had some reasoning why they deemed it Wagner.

As far as the writing on the back goes, I crossed that to everyone batting in those two games and nothing makes sense. Therefore, I dismiss it completely as anyone in culver after it was taken could have guessed/made a mistake etc. Again, the Library of Congress doesn't even say who it is. It would have been much easier if the names would have been engraved in the negative like many of the BAINS. Oh well.. the controversy continues. Thank you all for your thoughts and opinions.

[mordecaibrown]

Personally, I think it looks like Fred Clarke. Clarke batted left handed and was on the Pirates in 1908 (in my experience - the simplest and most likely answer is usually the right one).

I have included a picture of Clarke batting (unfortunately - it is from his front side). To me the stance looks the same as the original photo - left arm tucked in, leg position, and he has a prominent nose as well.

I hope it can be proven to be Wagner for the owner - that would be a cool item.

But in my opinion its Fred Clarke.

Andy

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

The biggest arument is the batter's build(not sure it is off). Everyone has their opinion but I am sure SABR had some reasoning why they deemed it Wagner.

Having been involved in photo ID for a number of relatively recent SABR publications, I can tell you that in the past SABR has misidentified many photos.

That said, there are a few specific facial similarities between the batter and Wagner that can be pointed out, so it may be him. With the reference photos I have at hand, I can't be sure. Some very clear high quality profiles of Wagner would help.