Performance Enhancing Drugs - How Those Implicated Have Impacted Card Collecting

[iwantitiwinit]

I happened to dig out Joe Orlando's book the Top 200 Sportscards in the Hobby today and noticed something really interesting and disappointing. Of the 9 most recent inclusions in the baseball card section 5 have to date been implicated or associated in some way with Performance Enhancing Drugs. In chronological order they are:

1) Roger Clemens - 1984 Fleer Update
2) Mark McGwire - 1985 Topps
3) Greg Maddux - 1987 Donruss
4) Barry Bonds - 1987 Fleer
5) Ken Griffery Jr. - 1989 Upper Deck
6) Sammy Sosa - 1990 Leaf
7) Mike Piazza - 1992 Fleer Update
8) Derek Jeter - 1993 SP
9) Alex Rodriguez - 1994 SP

1 - Guilty, 2 - Guilty, 4 - Guilty (and in my opinion an arrogant self righteous egotistical outcast), 6 - Guilty (no hablo), 9 - Guilty.

Orlando mistakenly states..."this list will inevitably change over time but the majority of the cards featured on the list will be part of the top 200 for generations to come". They should be on a list alright the list of top superstar frauds. Total disgrace. I never realized how many of the perceived greatest players in the game CHEATED.

[LanceRoten]

Being a human being, I feel as though i'm imperfect and in a glass house 24/7 so, doubtful I judge or throw stones. On a side note, if anyone has any high grades of the following and morally feel they can't hold onto the cards any longer LMK:

84 Fleer Update Roger Clemens
85 Donruss Roger Clemens
85 Topps Mark McGwire
all 86 and 87 Bonds
94 SP Alex Rodriguez

Just shoot me a PM

[teetwoohsix]

I'm not sure how much of an impact it had on card collecting, but it had to have an impact on the value of those certain cards. The sad thing is that these players were great without the PED's.

[LanceRoten]

it's had impact. though all of those cards mentioned of the players with the cloud over them still sell. it's not like people are so high and mighty and riding the high horse that they give away gem 10 McGwires or A Rod's. Though from many or most comments you would think people were giving away BGS 9.5 94 SP A Rod's to the first people who pay for shipping. The almighty dollar still rules, though most would like people to believe otherwise.

[stadiumechoes]

Although I agree that the value of the cards of those connected to PEDs have been greatly impacted (although the general knowledge of the mass production of these cards certainly hasn't helped), I am of the opinion that many years from now, the individual accomplishments will be looked at in a better light than they are today. I honestly feel that as time goes by, this era will be known as the steroid (or PED) era, and the feats will not be looked upon with such a "scarlet letter" as they do today.

[bobbvc]

Originally Posted by stadiumechoes

I honestly feel that as time goes by, this era will be known as the steroid (or PED) era, and the feats will not be looked upon with such a "scarlet letter" as they do today.

Bill James thinks they will be looked at as pioneers in the future, due to society taking more drugs in general to prolong youth, etc. Find the article if you can, it's a thought provoking read. I hope he's wrong, but wouldn't bet against him.

[LanceRoten]

Originally Posted by bobbvc

Bill James thinks they will be looked at as pioneers in the future, due to society taking more drugs in general to prolong youth, etc. Find the article if you can, it's a thought provoking read. I hope he's wrong, but wouldn't bet against him.

Yeah that James piece is floating around a few sites. I often get ripped, not on here that I know of yet, because i'm a Bonds fan. And have been since the Arizona State days. If you've got a favorite player or two, and legit like the player, it's hard to turn that off regardless of what you hear or read. I choose to look it at like Bill James or , there's another author i forget the name who had some ped thoughts also. I believe Bonds, McGwire, whoever, they're grown men. They didn't take ped's for my benefit, or any fans benefit. They didn't take them to hurt me as a fan, or any fans. They were looking for competitive advantage. It would be extremely naive of me to think that if a Hank Aaron or Willie Mays were in this particular era that they wouldn't have been interested in a little improvement. And to close on Bonds. If we take the years that most assume he was clean, well, he was arguably the second or third best player in the majors from his breakout 1990 - say, what 99? So lets say he dabbled a bit in the steroid game. He went from being on par or better with those (Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro, etc) who were likely using, to being significantly better than anyone for a few years there. He was nearly as good as the users before possibly using, and a few levels above the other users with Ped's. As for the card prices, eh, I like being able to pick up virtually any Bonds graded card I want for considerably less than I would have 6-8 years ago. And the record book says, all time HR King

[stadiumechoes]

Originally Posted by bobbvc

Bill James thinks they will be looked at as pioneers in the future, due to society taking more drugs in general to prolong youth, etc. Find the article if you can, it's a thought provoking read. I hope he's wrong, but wouldn't bet against him.

I will definately look for the article.