OT:Auction sales hit record $15 billion as young, wealthy collectors enter the market

[byrone]

CNBC story on major auction companies and their lucrative 2021 sales

Not necessarily sports/vintage cards related, but it shows the overall collectibles market


"Christie’s on Monday reported total sales of $7.1 billion for 2021, the highest total in five years. Sotheby’s earlier reported total sales of $7.3 billion, its best showing in the company’s 277-year history, and Phillips said its sales rose to $1.2 billion this year, also a company record.

“Every single category is outperforming,” said Guillaume Cerutti, CEO of Christie’s."

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/20/auct...ollectors.html

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by byrone

CNBC story on major auction companies and their lucrative 2021 sales

Not necessarily sports/vintage cards related, but it shows the overall collectibles market

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/20/auct...ollectors.html

Very true I agree with this article.

Sad part is most could care less about the card it’s about the number grade on the slab. Altered so what it’s in a Holder. The percentage of people who care about the card are shrinking and shirking. It’s an investment asset class. I don’t think it’s bad for the hobby, we have all benefited from it. I said it a few weeks on a post the only thing that could stop this market is if crytop crashes which I don’t think it will. It’s going up.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Sad part is most could care less about the card it’s about the number grade on the slab. Altered so what it’s in a Holder. The percentage of people who care about the card are shrinking and shirking. It’s an investment asset class. I don’t think it’s bad for the hobby, we have all benefited from it.

Tell me again how this is in any way a hobby.

You said it yourself, it's an investment asset class.

I am in the insignificant minority. I do care about the cards. Only the cards. I'll create an investment portfolio some other way.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Tell me again how this is in any way a hobby.

You said it yourself, it's an investment asset class.

I am in the insignificant minority. I do care about the cards. Only the cards. I'll create an investment portfolio some other way.

It’s a hobby of the rich. They money they’re spending on cards is peanuts to them.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

It’s a hobby of the rich. They money they’re spending on cards is peanuts to them.

There is only one sector to blame for the crazy stupid influx of money into this hobby and that is the card manufactures. It reminds me a lot of the early 90s with overproduction that they all did.

Now the overproduction comes in chase cards and SPs, SSPs, SSSSSSPs and so on and so on. It seems that the next shiny product is all the rage until the next shiny product comes out. So in all of this nonsense, what happens to the base cards? Do base cards actually even exist anymore? Do the new investors throw them out after they rape the inserts?

I cannot even fathom buying a box of new cards anymore. First off, I am not gonna spend upwards of hundreds of dollars on maybe 8 packs of cards with the off hand chance of getting some supercalafragalisticexpyaladocious 1 of 1 common card.

Where is the sense in that?

I also need to revise my comment I made a while ago about completing Topps sets. Initially, I was gonna collect sets until the end of Topps. But now, my run stops at 2001. 69 to 2001 is gonna be good enough for me. Then I am out of the set collecting business.

When I have to pay around a grand for an update/traded set just because of one or two cards of players that may not even get to a long and storied career, there is something very wrong in that line of thinking.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Tell me again how this is in any way a hobby.

You said it yourself, it's an investment asset class.

I am in the insignificant minority. I do care about the cards. Only the cards. I'll create an investment portfolio some other way.

I tend to agree with you both. And I am a collector and I do care about the cards and long term I do also care about it as a potential investment portfolio. Because I can both enjoy my hobby while having an investment portfolio.

Additionally many "collectors" and hobbyist fund their collections and upgrades on the flipping of their existing cards are cards that they intentionally buy to flip for this fund source.

[Fred]

I have a difficult time looking at my cardboard as an asset class. If it gets uber-stupid, I'll be cashing out and finding something else to do for a hobby.

For now, I guess the trick will be to figure out what's going to sky rocket next and try to stay ahead of the curve. Any guesses on what's next?

When you see the BST offering one Bitcoin for a VG '33 Goudey Ruth, we'll know N54 has been infiltrated...

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Fred

I have a difficult time looking at my cardboard as an asset class.

This sometimes heard "it's just cardboard, so it's silly that it's an asset" outlook never considers the basics of why some intangible goods can be worth so much.

People obviously enjoy looking at (and owning) those goods enough to drive prices up. Art, sportscards, comic books, and many other examples. They elicit positive feelings of nostalgia, escapism, learning about history, and so much else.

A lot more to it than it just being "cardboard" or "silly cartoon drawings"

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

I am a collector and I do care about the cards and long term I do also care about it as a potential investment portfolio. Because I can both enjoy my hobby while having an investment portfolio.

Ditto.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

I tend to agree with you both. And I am a collector and I do care about the cards and long term I do also care about it as a potential investment portfolio. Because I can both enjoy my hobby while having an investment portfolio.

Additionally many "collectors" and hobbyist fund their collections and upgrades on the flipping of their existing cards are cards that they intentionally buy to flip for this fund source.

I concur. I have been buying and selling stocks for years in spare time, but it's not very gratifying. Collecting vintage/pre-war cards is fun and potentially a decent investment. I feel like I am having my cake and eating it too.

And I do try to help fund my investment by occasionally selling cards for a profit. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

What I fear though is that too much money will drive investment in algorithms or other market manipulation to try to find and exploit potentially undervalued cards on ebay/auction houses and then snatch them up, thereby reducing the ability to bargain hunt. My nightmare is a bot that quickly compares prices to VCP/130Point/wherever and then buy up all bargains. Wherever there is a lot of money to be had, there will be effort to exploit potential profit, and we are at the point now where there is a lot of money to be had.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Tell me again how this is in any way a hobby.

You said it yourself, it's an investment asset class.

I am in the insignificant minority. I do care about the cards. Only the cards. I'll create an investment portfolio some other way.

I'm with you. I'd happily welcome all cards permanently costing a small fraction of what they do today; I'd love them just as much, and be able to own and enjoy more.

I'm not drawn to a card because of its potential future value— yet that is the primary reason behind most card purchases I see today on social media (which is admittedly societal poison), especially outside the very collector-centric cyber halls of Net54.

What I find sadly amusing is that we see guys on social media trumpeting high prices, but if you love cards and collecting, the value of cards you love and never want to sell is totally moot. That's money a collector never wants to see, because he never wants to sell. So the high prices only have one actual effect in reality on a collector, namely we have to shell out way more cash to acquire anything new. Or we have to sell pieces when we add a new one. So I don't see how rising prices are good for a collector who is not obscenely wealthy. Now if someone is super wealthy, of course it's to their advantage that everything desirable rises to a level where only they can afford it. To them the cash is nothing and they can just scoop everything up.

[LEHR]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'm with you. I'd happily welcome all cards permanently costing a small fraction of what they do today; I'd love them just as much, and be able to own and enjoy more.

I'm not drawn to a card because of its potential future value— yet that is the primary reason behind most card purchases I see today on social media (which is admittedly societal poison), especially outside the very collector-centric cyber halls of Net54.

What I find sadly amusing is that we see guys on social media trumpeting high prices, but if you love cards and collecting, the value of cards you love and never want to sell is totally moot. That's money a collector never wants to see, because he never wants to sell. So the high prices only have one actual effect in reality on a collector, namely we have to shell out way more cash to acquire anything new. Or we have to sell pieces when we add a new one. So I don't see how rising prices are good for a collector who is not obscenely wealthy. Now if someone is super wealthy, of course it's to their advantage that everything desirable rises to a level where only they can afford it. To them the cash is nothing and they can just scoop everything up.

We all collect and see things differently. At 48 I've been collecting for four decades now. As much as I love the history and the cards/memorabilia of this hobby, I also personally look at anything that I put thousands and thousands of dollars into as an investment. I'm also in the camp that everything I own has a price; because in the end it's all just "stuff', as much as I love it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Go back a few years and read all the alarmist posts about how the hobby was likely to decline for failure to attract younger collectors. Maybe this is not such a bad thing.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by LEHR

...I'm also in the camp that everything I own has a price...

Wasn't Harry Frazee known for saying that?