Hobby Hustle Documentary 2-16-25

[Tomi]

A new memorabilia documentary comes out Feb. 16 and looks like it's going to tackle the fraud in our community. It's listed at 2.5 hours long so it looks like a lot will be discussed. I'm sure it's mostly modern collecting that's gonna be discussed but we all know none of us are immune from it on the vintage and pre-war side. Looks very interesting from the trailer and one of our own from Net54 is in it. Hopefully he can chime in if he has seen it to let us know what to expect. Looks like it's going to be on Apple and Amazon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q3p...IHRyYWlsZXI%3D

[BioCRN]

Looks neat, but what's up with the Black Swamp Find being lumped in here?

I know there's a sliver of the community that thinks these were modern cut and some that believe they're fake. Am I missing something else?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Looks neat, but what's up with the Black Swamp Find being lumped in here?

I know there's a sliver of the community that thinks these were modern cut and some that believe they're fake. Am I missing something else?

We will find out in a week. Maybe just a hook to get people to watch. Should be a fun watch from the list of featured people.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Looks neat, but what's up with the Black Swamp Find being lumped in here?

I know there's a sliver of the community that thinks these were modern cut and some that believe they're fake. Am I missing something else?

Fake? Really?

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Fake? Really?

Some people got some real strong conspiracy feelings about the Black Swamp Find beyond some people being upset or happy about the surge of very high end cards suddenly showing up.

I'm not sure there's many left after the initial skepticism on the discovery, though. I think there's more converts than skeptics left, anyway.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Some people got some real strong conspiracy feelings about the Black Swamp Find beyond some people being upset or happy about the surge of very high end cards suddenly showing up.

I'm not sure there's many left after the initial skepticism on the discovery, though. I think there's more converts than skeptics left, anyway.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ht=Black+swamp

After I started the thread above, a member of the family began communicating with me about the find, the auction process, and all the stress and anxiety (and of course excitement). That person was very credible. Since my return to the hobby, I have learned that the population of the cards is now much greater than previously reported and/or assumed, but I still believe there is no way they are fake. The number of people and companies that would’ve had to conspire together in order to pull that off… there’s just no way.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ht=Black+swamp

After I started the thread above, a member of the family began communicating with me about the find, the auction process, and all the stress and anxiety (and of course excitement). That person was very credible. Since my return to the hobby, I have learned that the population of the cards is now much greater than previously reported and/or assumed, but I still believe there is no way they are fake. The number of people and companies that would’ve had to conspire together in order to pull that off… there’s just no way.

I am in no way saying they are fake as I know nothing about the BSF. I am surprised how many think printing from 100 years ago is some outrageously difficult thing that nobody could do now. I have a great uncle that owned a fairly large printing company and 2 lifelong friends that have decades in printing. Trust me you do not have to be smart to do anything related to printing a simple picture on paper. Knowing that I have been amazed for a very long time way more top quality counterfeits have not completely flooded the market. With the way printing is dying I am amazed some small print shop owners haven't given it a shot because their company is or has gone bankrupt.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ht=Black+swamp

After I started the thread above, a member of the family began communicating with me about the find, the auction process, and all the stress and anxiety (and of course excitement). That person was very credible. Since my return to the hobby, I have learned that the population of the cards is now much greater than previously reported and/or assumed, but I still believe there is no way they are fake. The number of people and companies that would’ve had to conspire together in order to pull that off… there’s just no way.

Nah. Just takes a couple people to make counterfeits of sufficient quality.

[4815162342]

I rented this documentary on Apple TV and watched it this afternoon. Jeff L. did a terrific job. The segments on The Black Swamp Find were great. It was funny to see the Sports Card Radio guys.

I have never collected autographs, and I do not plan to start after hearing the main “character” that served time say that he has hundreds of autographs memorized with at least one of his forgeries (at least formerly) being used as a TPA’s exemplar.

[toppcat]

All well and good but as always, nothing will result.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by toppcat

All well and good but as always, nothing will result.

Maybe it will further drive more business to the TPGs if a flood of people get scared about potential fakes without realizing that the TPGs are far from infallible on this score?

[Snowman]

That may have been the worst documentary I've ever seen. Actually, yes. Yes, that was the worst documentary I've ever seen.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

Maybe it will further drive more business to the TPGs if a flood of people get scared about potential fakes without realizing that the TPGs are far from infallible on this score?

Speaking of which.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1606079

[Brent G.]

This thing could’ve been an hour shorter, and it wasn’t the cleanest job of spinning three stories into one, but it was decent hobby entertainment.

[balltrash]

My take on this documentary...I believe that it was done by someone who is more recent to this hobby/business rather than a life long collector and viewing through that lense it is easy to see how it took the form(s) that it did. Shame because they got access to some people who really could gave provided some interesting takes and insight. Makes it all seem like a sea of dishonest people with just a few crusaders trying to clean it all up.

And with regard to the forger...this is a card collector board so it can sometimes be hard to see the forest through the trees but I am familiar with his work and this is no master. He took advantage of online selling and uniformed collectors who wanted to get "good deals." You don't need to be a master forger to sell material to people shopping for discounts. That would be akin to a bunch of autograph collectors pointing to Etsy sellers of reprinted baseball cards and proclaiming the sky is falling because people are being duped and spending money on them. And I'd like to see what piece was used as an exemplar. I don't believe that claim.

[Exhibitman]

Watched it last night. OMG is it boring. 2:30 of documentary that tells about four disjointed stories with some rando talking heads:

--Some kid from Michigan doing breaks and opening a store
--Some forger from Ohio
--Something about some Packer having fun with it
--The Black Swamp Find

All the stories were drawn way out. They spent more time on the forger's life backstory (which no one could possibly give a crap about) than Babe Ruth got from Ken Burns. The BS find was interesting but unbelievably repetitive. They were at the National but they barely used anything from the premier event of the hobby. Made the whole hobby look like a dull, slow money grab.

Not worth the $2.99.

Now, as for Jeff and his practice: we have this discussion every year or two when someone decides to trash talk him for defending big-time criminals, alleged and convicted. Stop it. What he does is as vital to the maintenance of the rule of law as anything a prosecutor or judge does. If you get caught up in the meat grinder of the criminal justice system and the entire force of the state is against you, guys like Jeff are critical to keeping the government honest. If I had my tit in a wringer in NY I'd retain him in a heartbeat (assuming I could afford him)

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Watched it last night. OMG is it boring. 2:30 of documentary that tells about four disjointed stories with some rando talking heads:

--Some kid from Michigan doing breaks and opening a store
--Some forger from Ohio
--Something about some Packer having fun with it
--The Black Swamp Find

All the stories were drawn way out. They spent more time on the forger's life backstory (which no one could possibly give a crap about) than Babe Ruth got from Ken Burns. The BS find was interesting but unbelievably repetitive. They were at the National but they barely used anything from the premier event of the hobby. Made the whole hobby look like a dull, slow money grab.

Not worth the $2.99.

Now, as for Jeff and his practice: we have this discussion every year or two when someone decides to trash talk him for defending big-time criminals, alleged and convicted. Stop it. What he does is as vital to the maintenance of the rule of law as anything a prosecutor or judge does. If you get caught up in the meat grinder of the criminal justice system and the entire force of the state is against you, guys like Jeff are critical to keeping the government honest. If I had my tit in a wringer in NY I'd retain him in a heartbeat (assuming I could afford him)

When it becomes free I might watch it. The one I am waiting for that I would actually pay money for has some of the same people involved. I would love to hear the story on Jeff, PWCC, and the FBI agent. That is the craziest sh*t ever.

[CollectingKid84]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Watched it last night. OMG is it boring. 2:30 of documentary that tells about four disjointed stories with some rando talking heads:

--Some kid from Michigan doing breaks and opening a store
--Some forger from Ohio
--Something about some Packer having fun with it
--The Black Swamp Find

All the stories were drawn way out. They spent more time on the forger's life backstory (which no one could possibly give a crap about) than Babe Ruth got from Ken Burns. The BS find was interesting but unbelievably repetitive. They were at the National but they barely used anything from the premier event of the hobby. Made the whole hobby look like a dull, slow money grab.

Not worth the $2.99.

Now, as for Jeff and his practice: we have this discussion every year or two when someone decides to trash talk him for defending big-time criminals, alleged and convicted. Stop it. What he does is as vital to the maintenance of the rule of law as anything a prosecutor or judge does. If you get caught up in the meat grinder of the criminal justice system and the entire force of the state is against you, guys like Jeff are critical to keeping the government honest. If I had my tit in a wringer in NY I'd retain him in a heartbeat (assuming I could afford him)

I enjoyed the film very much. I'm a younger collector, so maybe this board is full of older collectors who are very sensitive about the hobby. But the film, I thought was pretty dope. I do think it's hard to put EVERYTHING about the hobby into one film. The film should've probably been a series but for what the director was focusing on I thought it was fine.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by CollectingKid84

I enjoyed the film very much. I'm a younger collector, so maybe this board is full of older collectors who are very sensitive about the hobby. But the film, I thought was pretty dope. I do think it's hard to put EVERYTHING about the hobby into one film. The film should've probably been a series but for what the director was focusing on I thought it was fine.

Hey Kid, don't flatter yourself. I've been told by the truly younger set that if you know how to even use a message forum like this, you've got one foot in the grave.

In all seriousness, I enjoyed parts of the documentary myself! I also like the 84 in your handle. That's Dwight Gooden's rookie year. Dwight Gooden was the best before the blow got him.

[Kevin Savage]

Watched the documentary last night. Mixed reviews- kind of jumped all over the place- but I learned some things I didn't know- so that is good. The Black Swamp stuff was enlightening- since the Heritage Boys pulled that one out of my backyard...... but I will get over it....eventually haha.....

The autograph forgery stuff was kind of depressing- but an interesting story.

Not a date night flick.... in my opinion... my wife fell asleep 15 minutes in....I don't think the rotten tomatoes score is going to be too high....

[homerunhitter]

……And the hits on the hobby keep coming! As I just read that PSA is now decertifying a lot of slabs that contain altered cards. That is a good thing for the hobby but sucks if you buy a graded card on eBay, then years later PSA decides to decertify it, you are left holding the hot potato!

Do we now have to look up PSA cert numbers first before we buy it? Ain’t no one got time for that!

It’s all a big mess that will come to a head one day…soon! With autographs being forged, to TPAs not being reliable, to cards being counterfeited, altered, trimmed to now PSA is decertifying certs. What’s left to collect when there is issues with everything in the hobby it seems! Yikes!

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

……And the hits on the hobby keep coming! As I just read that PSA is now decertifying a lot of slabs that contain altered cards. That is a good thing for the hobby but sucks if you buy a graded card on eBay, then years later PSA decides to decertify it, you are left holding the hot potato!

Do we now have to look up PSA cert numbers first before we buy it? Ain’t no one got time for that!

It’s all a big mess that will come to a head one day…soon! With autographs being forged, to TPAs not being reliable, to cards being counterfeited, altered, trimmed to now PSA is decertifying certs. What’s left to collect when there is issues with everything in the hobby it seems! Yikes!

When does the PSA 8 Wagner get decertified? Till then to me it is just window dressing.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

When does the PSA 8 Wagner get decertified? Till then to me it is just window dressing.

On the 13th of Never.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

On the 13th of Never.

Agreed. Though the ultimate power move would be to crack it and resubmit it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

……And the hits on the hobby keep coming! As I just read that PSA is now decertifying a lot of slabs that contain altered cards. That is a good thing for the hobby but sucks if you buy a graded card on eBay, then years later PSA decides to decertify it, you are left holding the hot potato!

Do we now have to look up PSA cert numbers first before we buy it? Ain’t no one got time for that!

It’s all a big mess that will come to a head one day…soon! With autographs being forged, to TPAs not being reliable, to cards being counterfeited, altered, trimmed to now PSA is decertifying certs. What’s left to collect when there is issues with everything in the hobby it seems! Yikes!

It might take 10 seconds to look up a PSA cert. You must be really busy or something.

[homerunhitter]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It might take 10 seconds to look up a PSA cert. You must be really busy or something.

No, not at all. Just never looked one up. Don’t know the process but thank you for schooling me!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

No, not at all. Just never looked one up. Don’t know the process but thank you for schooling me!

It's just a matter of opening the PSA cert lookup page, typing in the number, and hitting go. Very easy.

[maniac_73]

Jeffs a good dude and great member on this board. Always enjoy speaking with him.