Revisiting the T206 Wagner "strip"

[tedzan]

This strip was at Baltimore for all to see. Unfortunately, it is now encapsulated in plastic. I say this simply, because this makes it
impossible to tactilely examine this strip.

Nevertheless, I and 4 other long-time collectors ("dinosaurs") independently examined this strip under magnification and all 5 of us
have arrived at the same conclusion....it is not a standard production strip of T206's. And, it really cannot be classified as a "proof",
either. It is apparent that someone at American Litho. professionally pasted together the fronts of the 5 cards to create this strip.
Perhaps to show Wagner his card along with 4 other players to be included in their 1909 set of BB cards.

Now, I can see why they included Mordecai Brown (a 29 game winner in 1908). And, Cy Young needs no explanation (other then his
colors are not complete). I also see why Johnny Kling was included (hotshot catcher for the Championship Cubs teams, 1906-1908).
Why they selected Frank Bowerman, is not certain. Perhaps, Frank was an old-time friend of Wagner's, since they both started their
BB careers back in the 1890's.

Anyhow, the indisputable lines between each card is the revealing clue. In fact, one can see the separation between the Young and
Kling in the upper part of their adjacency.

OK, I'm sure the usual suspects on this forum will do their thing and "bust my chops" over this observation. However, I will REPEAT....
I'm not the sole critic of this strip. The other 4 guys, independently, came to the same conclusion. And mind you, that between us 5
guys there are 180+ years of hobby experience.


TED Z

[Matt]

Who are the other 4 fellows? If you're mentioning them to add legitimacy to your opinion then it's only fair if we know who they are, isn't it?

[Thrill-of-the-Hunt]

who cares about the other guys. ted has a well written and interesting post here. if ted wanted to name them than he would. its interesting and perhaps adds another level of how his regular issued card was short printed.

i am glad its encapsulated, for protection, this item is one of a kind with a terrific provenance. i am sure the sgc holder frames it nicely.

[teetwoohsix]

I was wondering what your opinion of this strip would be after you had a chance to view it in person.

When you say it's not a standard production strip of T206's, what is out there to compare it to?

Also, if the ALC pasted together the fronts why would there be printers marks? Was the strip thicker than a regular T206?

I'm not busting your chops, just slightly confused- and I've never seen this in person. Thanks for posting about this-

Sincerely, Clayton

[FrankWakefield]

Ted, hope you have a mouth guard...

What you've set out is consistent with what you said before. A few of us thought much this way earlier. The lines between the cards aren't consistent with proof marks, there's no cross marks for alignment. I know it isn't, but it reminds me of those Bazooka cards we used to cut off of those boxes 40 years ago.

Thanks for posting. I think your 'rehashing' sets out what that assembly of images (it isn't really a strip of cards) is.

I am with Ted 100%. I remember a past thread about this and when I seen it at the national I looked at it then used my loop to see. There was for sure a difference in lines where they were put together and a printed line would be. But it is what it is and someone is going to pay top $ no matter what

Hell its a cool piece no matter what

[ethicsprof]

great work, Ted.
thanks for sharing your findings.
all the best,
barry

[botn]

Ted,

I am glad that you finally got to view it up close. I had expressed in the original thread that I was anxious to hear your opinion. Thanks for posting and letting us know what you saw, confirming your initial posts on the matter.

It is still a neat piece despite being fabricated.

Greg

[barrysloate]

Ted- It's very interesting that Bowerman was an old friend of Wagner's. That would be an excellent way to get Honus to agree to let them use his picture. If an old friend agreed to do it, he might too. Good stuff.

[tedzan]

Greg

Indeed, it is a very neat piece. There is no question about that.

Actually, I wish it was a real production piece, because it's my understanding that the Plank
card was next to (or close by) on the sheet that the Wagner card was printed on.

Can you imagine what a strip or panel of T206's with Plank & Wagner on it would be worth ?


TED Z

[tedzan]

Regarding your........
" It's very interesting that Bowerman was an old friend of Wagner's. That would be an excellent way to get Honus
to agree to let them use his picture. If an old friend agreed to do it, he might too. "


This is conjecture on my part. However, if this strip was cobbled together to persuade Wagner to grant the Rights
to portray him....then as I have said, I can understand why "Three finger" Brown, Johnny Kling, and CYoung are on
this strip with Wagner. But, why Frank Bowerman ?

Best regards,

TED Z

[FrankWakefield]

One matter that everyone seems in agreement about is that some third party grader graded this... Which company graded it? And, does anyone recall what the slip indicated it was? I'm not concerned about a grade or number, I'm asking about the grader's identity of the item.

If I take a photograph next time I'm at a ballpark, and print it off with a caption added once I get home, then it seems that should be as 'gradable' as this assemblage is.

[GoSoxBoSox]

It says:
"1909 T206
Honus Wagner
Proof Strip."

With Authentic as the "grade".

[HRBAKER]

I think it is more properly stated that they (SGC) authenticated it ("A") but then again "A" is considered a grade by some. IMO with this piece the grading neither adds to nor detracts from it, what it does do is keep people from handling it and restrains the amount of scrutiny it can be given now. I have collected pre-war for a few decades now and am an expert at nothing. It is a fascinating subject though.

[Rob D.]

"SGC" stands for Sportscard Guaranty. Here is a link to the company's website:

http://www.sgccard.com/

[FrankWakefield]

Thank you, guys. I now recall SGC was mentioned back up there.

I don't think it is a "proof". Proofs from this issue had the vertical and horizontal crosshairs, centered in the borders. A few of the guys here have cards like that. We've not seen anything like this for any of the other cards in the white border series, just this one item.

And thanks for the scan of it in its slab. This rascal will be fodder for discussion in future generations.

[tedzan]

I've known Wayne and Bill Zimpleman since 1981 and have had some interesting discussions with them over the years.
We are old friends. Also, it so happens that we are set up at adjacent booths at the Philly Show, so we will certainly
have an interesting discussion next month regarding this Wagner artifact.

At the time Wayne and Bill owned this piece years ago (before Barry Halper acquired it), the 6-color printing process
and other subtle aspects that went into the production of these tobacco cards were not well known, or understood.
Therefore, no one questioned the apparent anomalies of this strip back then.


TED Z