Hey, pennant guys

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

A cautionary tale for those inclined to clean pennants. Someone regrets it.

If it’s pre-1970, just don’t.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20488366037...mis&media=COPY

I had a post 1970 one that I faded the crap out. Shit happens.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ser1979

The pennant is made of silk which makes it somewhat difficult to display. I also believe there is another version of the silk kind out there where Cochrane's name is spelled wrong?

I've also never seen the non-silk version you have. If you ever decide to part ways with it let me know so I can decide what kid doesn't really need to go to college, lol.

LOL! … will do!

[bocca001]

I was recently able to make a deal for the top pennant. Still need to iron out the tip. This copy actually has the best/most color (i.e., spray paint) I've ever seen. Those that have evidence of painting are usually even more faded. It's more common to find what appear to be monochrome versions, although it's unclear if the monochrome versions had the paint originally (and the paint completely faded over time) or never had paint. My monochrome version has no evidence of the orange in Giants or on the batter, but maybe has hint of yellow in the "explosion" where the ball is hitting the bat.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by bocca001

I was recently able to make a deal for the top pennant. Still need to iron out the tip. This copy actually has the best/most color (i.e., spray paint) I've ever seen. Those that have evidence of painting are usually even more faded. It's more common to find what appear to be monochrome versions, although it's unclear if the monochrome versions had the paint originally (and the paint completely faded over time) or never had paint. My monochrome version has no evidence of the orange in Giants or on the batter, but maybe has hint of yellow in the "explosion" where the ball is hitting the bat.

Mine is buried in a tub but I did have this picture. It appears to have color in Giants, but very very faint. The spine seems to be a different orange. Maybe the bottom one had the color completely faded away?

[bocca001]

About that spine, here is my last copy (it's not an illness, I swear). It has that spine and also has tassels (which is why I had the multiple copies). It has what appears to be a trace of orange in the "t", although I'd need to get it out to make sure that was not dirt. Starting to think they all had paint at one point.

[perezfan]

Great pickup, Marc...

That should iron out beautifully. Let's see the "after" pic, if/when you have a chance!

[ooo-ribay]

I gotta learn how to airbrush.

[ooo-ribay]

from a commemorative ESPN magazine I just got...

[UKCardGuy]

I wonder where the Mays' Mays pennant ended up?

I had a few new arrivals. They need an iron and a clean.

The Expos pennant isnt very expensive but I love the simplicity of the design. Is it Keezer or WGN?

[Domer05]

The first two are definitely by Keezer. I believe the Expos is by ADFLAG....

[UKCardGuy]

Thanks Kyle.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I gotta learn how to airbrush.

The cool thing about airbrushing in the early 60s...Nobody was good at it.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I wonder where the Mays' Mays pennant ended up?

I had a few new arrivals. They need an iron and a clean.

The Expos pennant isnt very expensive but I love the simplicity of the design. Is it Keezer or WGN?

The Expos font bears a resemblance to the 1967 Montreal World’s Fair pennant, which is also where they got their name.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16679729159...mis&media=COPY

The bigger mystery is the 1950 Yankees. Kinda looks like Trench design, but construction is very different. Many, but not all, of those are made in extremely soft and fragile felt. Almost like Kleenex. Yours looks nice and better quality. I think Mark has it and can confirm. The sister Phillies pennant has the same graphic.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

The Expos font bears a resemblance to the 1967 Montreal World’s Fair pennant, which is also where they got their name.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16679729159...mis&media=COPY

The bigger mystery is the 1950 Yankees. Kinda looks like Trench design, but construction is very different. Many, but not all, of those are made in extremely soft and fragile felt. Almost like Kleenex. Yours looks nice and better quality. I think Mark has it and can confirm. The sister Phillies pennant has the same graphic.

You know, I never knew that about how the Expos got their name.

With regards to the 1950 Yanks pennant,it is extremely soft and feels very fragile, just like you described.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

You know, I never knew that about how the Expos got their name.

With regards to the 1950 Yanks pennant,it is extremely soft and feels very fragile, just like you described.

Yup, just another mystery in Trench's rich history....

Why is the 1950 Phillies version made with such nice thick substantial felt, while the matching Yankees is almost like soft cotton that you can practically pull apart with your fingers?

If you really want to torture yourself, try getting that Yankees pennant to slide into a rigid toploader. And be sure to set aside at least an hour.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

The cool thing about airbrushing in the early 60s...Nobody was good at it.

Is that original color or owner applied?

[bocca001]

I think Rob figured out that the Dallas pennant, this attached Giants pennant, and a number of other colorful versions all came from the same auction lot (I forget which auction).

This Giants clearly has more paint that the typical pennant. The batter is painted pretty carefully. The bat and bridge? Not so much.

[Domer05]

Looks like their block-out stencil had some holes in it....

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Is that original color or owner applied?

I honestly can't tell. If it's owner applied, he knew what he was doing. It's pretty intricate.

[thetahat]

Watching a series called The Americans on Hulu, which is set in early 1980s Washington D.C. … noticed this amazing specimen. Keri Russell also not half bad …

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Yup, just another mystery in Trench's rich history....

Why is the 1950 Phillies version made with such nice thick substantial felt, while the matching Yankees is almost like soft cotton that you can practically pull apart with your fingers?

If you really want to torture yourself, try getting that Yankees pennant to slide into a rigid toploader. And be sure to set aside at least an hour.

I haven't had the pleasure of getting the 1950 Yanks pennant into a toploader yet. Something to look forward to tomorrow :-)

Just checking is the 1950 Yankees pennant by Trench or Epstein. I had a note that it was Eptsein Novelty from when the topic was discussed starting in post #7173

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I haven't had the pleasure of getting the 1950 Yanks pennant into a toploader yet. Something to look forward to tomorrow :-)

Just checking is the 1950 Yankees pennant by Trench or Epstein. I had a note that it was Eptsein Novelty from when the topic was discussed starting in post #7173

My guess would be neither. I suspect Domer will disagree, though, and he may know better given his research. The black pennant is Trench, the red has nothing in common with it besides the player graphic.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

My guess would be neither. I suspect Domer will disagree, though, and he may know better given his research. The black pennant is Trench, the red has nothing in common with it besides the player graphic.

I think the best argument out there is, yes, Trench is the manufacturer of both.

For me, there's too many similarities between the two pennants to ignore. The tapered four-digit year on the tail-end of the pennants is identical, both in terms of location and script. Trench did this throughout the 1940s and 50s. it was practically their signature in those days. See below.

As to the artwork of the catcher + runner duo--it's pretty much the same on both pennants, too. This is a significant connection, for me. I don't know if it was original to Trench's art department, or they simply copied it from a team publication or logo, but ... the fact that it appeared on at least one Trench pennant suggests they would have no objection to its further use on another design. I know that's simple logic, but it makes a lot of sense doesn't it?

I can't speak to the composition discrepancies you all noted; however, the Phillies and companion Yankees pennant were both league championship pennants, i.e., they were made for and sold at the world's series. This means the manufacturer had limited time to make these. They undoubtedly would have cut corners here and there. They may even have contracted with other printers in Philadelphia to make some, which would explain why the felt may not look like that which we'd expect to come from Buffalo, NY (Trench). We've all seen evidence before of this. Might that just explain why these were composed of unusual materials?

Maybe that paper thin cotton-like stuff was super cheap? Maybe it absorbed the ink better? Trench was known for being an innovative company and they experimented with several types of felt throughout the 1950s.

[cmoore330]

I picked up a great group of football and baseball pennants. I know that at least a couple of them are really good, but would love some thoughts as I'm more of a college guy.



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[drmiraculous]

Picked up a Montgomery Rebels pennant recently, not sure why it is so tough to find Montgomery related items but I was happy to snare it!

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by cmoore330

I picked up a great group of football and baseball pennants. I know that at least a couple of them are really good, but would love some thoughts as I'm more of a college guy.

The Giants Playoff and Bears are the rarest. The Eagles and Browns are really good too but not as rare. I'll let the baseball experts speak to the baseball though that's not a Pirates you see every day.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by cmoore330

I picked up a great group of football and baseball pennants. I know that at least a couple of them are really good, but would love some thoughts as I'm more of a college guy.



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Those are all fantastic, and most of them are very rare. I can’t say that I’ve ever seen the 1958 pennant and that’s in great condition … those tend to fade easily. Great pickups!

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by cmoore330

I picked up a great group of football and baseball pennants. I know that at least a couple of them are really good, but would love some thoughts as I'm more of a college guy.



Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

I’m a Giants football fan and I love those pennants!

[ooo-ribay]

Cool, but I guess not surprising, that the baseball Giants have the exact same font.

[bocca001]

Nice, Casey!

Was this part of a big find? Were all of the pennants about the same age/era? I ask because the Bears pennant is of a style that many of us believed for a long time was from the 1940s or early 1950s (and may still be). They have been found for several teams from that era, but not all. And they are rare.

Then one showed up for the Atlanta Falcons??? 1965 or so? It could be something the pennant maker made in the style of the older pennants, but it seems like an odd design to pick because it is uncommon and only 3/4 size.

Here is Rob's Falcons pennant and my 49ers.

[ooo-ribay]

The Bears pennant definitely caught my eye. I don’t know much about football pennants but I see my share while searching for SFG stuff. My uneducated eye would have pegged it as 40’s-50’s and certainly not post 1965. Like Bocca, I think it would have been an odd style to copy later on. In the world of pennant mysteries, this is a good one.

edit: Rob and Marc - have you seen faded examples of this style pennant? The three shown all have great color, which would support post 1965. I’m leaning that way, anyway.

2nd edit: I just checked Rob’s fantastic football pennant site, feltfootball.com. Guru Rob also now thinks 1960’s. So my new question is, who the hell made these???

[cmoore330]

Thanks, guys! The pennants all were purchased from one person. Outside of the 1958 Giants, there were two other dated Orange Bowl pennants from 1957 and 1961.

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[UKCardGuy]

It's not in my collecting wheelhouse, but those are some very cool looking pennants.

Did anyone see these 2 that sold recently? I was an underbidder on the NY Giants pennant but the price got too steep for me. What are opinions on the NY pennant, is it a 100% cert that it's from the Giants? The font looks different to what was on their uniforms in those days.

The Miracle Braves pennant is seriously cool.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

The Bears pennant definitely caught my eye. I don’t know much about football pennants but I see my share while searching for SFG stuff. My uneducated eye would have pegged it as 40’s-50’s and certainly not post 1965. Like Bocca, I think it would have been an odd style to copy later on. In the world of pennant mysteries, this is a good one.

edit: Rob and Marc - have you seen faded examples of this style pennant? The three shown all have great color, which would support post 1965. I’m leaning that way, anyway.

2nd edit: I just checked Rob’s fantastic football pennant site, feltfootball.com. Guru Rob also now thinks 1960’s. So my new question is, who the hell made these???

Hanco used the design in the 1970s...for what that's worth.

[bocca001]

The Bears looks old to me.

Funny how these are all very rare, but possibly so different.

[cmoore330]

The older ones seem to have the white spine and tassles.

[Domer05]

I'm leaning Hanco for all of them ... but, why wouldn't the Bears, Falcons, and 49ers versions have their maker's mark on them, as with this last one? They were definitely making sports pennants in the 1960s, when that Falcons one must've been made.

HANCO stood for Harmony Art & Novelty Co., and they go back to at least 1925 when they were classified as a pennant and pillow maker located in NYC.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

I'm leaning Hanco for all of them ... but, why wouldn't the Bears, Falcons, and 49ers versions have their maker's mark on them, as with this last one? They were definitely making sports pennants in the 1960s, when that Falcons one must've been made.

HANCO stood for Harmony Art & Novelty Co., and they go back to at least 1925 when they were classified as a pennant and pillow maker located in NYC.

This has maybe been discussed, but have Hanco baseball pennants turned up? Do I remember mini’s? Was Hanco prolific enough to warrant a write-up on pennantfever? BTW, I’m jonesing for more content on that site!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

It's not in my collecting wheelhouse, but those are some very cool looking pennants.

Did anyone see these 2 that sold recently? I was an underbidder on the NY Giants pennant but the price got too steep for me. What are opinions on the NY pennant, is it a 100% cert that it's from the Giants? The font looks different to what was on their uniforms in those days.

The Miracle Braves pennant is seriously cool.

Even with the condition issues, the Red Sox pennant is crazy cool.

I could argue for or against the New York pennant being Giants. For: the Giants did wear purple and white for a time. Against: the NY is close, but not right.

[perezfan]

More likely it’s New York University (NYU)

[thetahat]

Here’s the same Braves pennant with inverted colors.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

More likely it’s New York University (NYU)

Speaking of...

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

This has maybe been discussed, but have Hanco baseball pennants turned up? Do I remember mini’s? Was Hanco prolific enough to warrant a write-up on pennantfever? BTW, I’m jonesing for more content on that site!

To my knowledge, HANCO just made this series of AL and NL minis from ca. 1965'ish....

Pretty poor quality, even for minis.

They were a vendor at the 1939-40 world's fair in NYC, so they likely made/sold some souvenir pennants there. Assuming so, I haven't seen any pennants from the fair bearing their maker's mark or label on it.

I haven't found too much on them pre-1960s. I definitely wasn't aware of these football pennants. I have to agree with the others: I would've pegged that Bears pennant as being from the 1940s.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Domer05

I have to agree with the others: I would've pegged that Bears pennant as being from the 1940s.

It wouldn't be unprecedented that a design from the 1940s was re-used in the 1960s. Interesting too, at least to me is the evolution of the design over the years...the flags becoming more like flags, the fans in the stadium going from ink blobs to people....and the punter looking kind of Asian on the Rams pennant. The Rams must've been the latest in the cycle.

[bocca001]

Here is an older and newer for the kicker for the same team. I like how the cleats and helmet have changed. Maybe it's technically a different design.

As for what we are saying might be HANCO pennants, the older ones (Bears, 49ers, I see Redskins on Rob's site, and probably others) are multicolored and designed well. Seems strange for a one off "series" from a maker known for the cheap minis (although the minis are multicolored as well) and Rob's NY Giants seems to be on the hastily made level as well.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

It wouldn't be unprecedented that a design from the 1940s was re-used in the 1960s. Interesting too, at least to me is the evolution of the design over the years...the flags becoming more like flags, the fans in the stadium going from ink blobs to people....and the punter looking kind of Asian on the Rams pennant. The Rams must've been the latest in the cycle.

That's a great observation, Rob. Could've just been HANCO's stock football artwork; and they just refined it over the years.

[Domer05]

The only other baseball felt novelty item by HANCO was this felt figure pennant by them, ca. late 1970s, I believe....

So, they were likely supplying stadia with felt novelty items from, at a minimum, ca. 1960 - late 1970s.

[ooo-ribay]

These images have been discussed. They belong to a buddy of mine. I think he has dropped the price and I'll bet he'd take 8 bucks. Just putting it out there in case anyone would want them as a peripheral pennant item.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/40513599943...Bk9SR-67hvq1ZA

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

These images have been discussed. They belong to a buddy of mine. I think he has dropped the price and I'll bet he'd take 8 bucks. Just putting it out there in case anyone would want them as a peripheral pennant item.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/40513599943...Bk9SR-67hvq1ZA

Timely post. I think these were made by the same company (HANCO?) as the minis that Domer posted. Also many of those football pennants posted including the 1958 playoff. Similar in design and construction.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

The only other baseball felt novelty item by HANCO was this felt figure pennant by them, ca. late 1970s, I believe....

So, they were likely supplying stadia with felt novelty items from, at a minimum, ca. 1960 - late 1970s.

That atrocity could have (rightfully) been Hanco’s death knell.