How to find the commons.

[Vintage Vern]

What's the best way to find the common cards that have very few numbers in pop reports or registry? I don't think very many AH even care about common players and I get they want the HOFers. So where does that leave a guy that wants to buy the Verne Clemons of the world?

Also what type of collector hurts the hobby the most and I'm sure it's subjective. Is it type collectors, set collectors, single team or player, other?

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Also what type of collector hurts the hobby the most and I'm sure it's subjective. Is it type collectors, set collectors, single team or player, other?

In what way would any of those collectors hurt the hobby?

[brianp-beme]

My view is a collector only hurts the hobby if he is no longer collecting.

Brian

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

In what way would any of those collectors hurt the hobby?

Different ways I'd imagine.

For me I just inquired about a card that a set collector has. No dice won't sell. Took a decade to get the complete set. Doesn't really care about the players in the set, just that it's complete. I even offered to trade him a lower grade for what he had, and no more response. Still a complete set for him. I'm a single player collector, and I just want to get the best I can since there's very few cards for me to collect. It has personal value to me for multiple reasons.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

My view is a collector only hurts the hobby if he is no longer collecting.

Brian

What about ones that don't care, and won't sell? This kind of reminds me of another hobby I had. Vintage cars. People would let em rot in the ground, and wouldn't sell. I just don't get that line of thinking.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Also what type of collector hurts the hobby the most and I'm sure it's subjective. Is it type collectors, set collectors, single team or player, other?

The ones who cut up and destroy unique material before even documenting it, hurting research and knowledge. And the fraudsters.

I don't see how collecting in different ways would hurt "the hobby". To each, their own.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

For me I just inquired about a card that a set collector has. No dice won't sell. Took a decade to get the complete set. Doesn't really care about the players in the set, just that it's complete. I even offered to trade him a lower grade for what he had, and no more response. Still a complete set for him. I'm a single player collector, and I just want to get the best I can since there's very few cards for me to collect. It has personal value to me for multiple reasons.

If it was the set collector contacting you, would you sell it to them or trade them for a lower grade? If the answer is no, then analogical reasoning should get to the answer. Eventually. Maybe.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

If it was the set collector contacting you, would you sell it to them or trade them for a lower grade? If the answer is no, then analogical reasoning should get to the answer. Eventually. Maybe.

If I was a set collector the grade wouldn't matter. Having the complete set would be all that would.

[steve B]

It takes a lot of looking. When the cards are actually hard to get it takes even longer.
If you want a specific card

Regularly searching Ebay.
Asking here.
Going to shows and asking dealers.

Being willing to pay a bit extra to finally add that one card.

Even some really common cards can take a while.
I didn't make an all out effort, but I needed Jose Canseco to finish my 88 Topps set. It had been a somewhat better card, so it was never in big lots I'd buy. But it had gotten "cold" in the market, slid to the dollar box, then to less. Usually the old no longer selling dollar box "out back"
Everyone was sure they had it. But even offering $2 for what was then a 25 cent card wasn't enough for anyone to go dig it out.
Yes, I could have bought a complete set for something like $10 but where's the fun in that?
It took around 2 years I think but I did finally find one.

[steve B]

I don't think any type of collector hurts the hobby.

Every type of collector affects the hobby in some way usually not by much. Sometimes by a lot. Any other collector my like or not like those effects, but they generally don't hurt the hobby overall.

Set collectors may tie up more difficult cards a player or team collector wants. But they also buy up commons that are slower selling, which makes those commons worth slightly more.

Player collectors or HOF collectors bump up prices on cards the set collector may need. But those higher prices slightly drag the commons up with them, also helping the set collector in the long run.

Investors, drive the prices of premium cards up by a LOT. That puts many cards any other sort of collector wants out of reach. But those high prices in turn make people finding vintage cards pause on the way to the trash, and that brings "new" stuff into the hobby. Which is good for everyone.

And so on for pretty much every kind of collector.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

If I was a set collector the grade wouldn't matter. Having the complete set would be all that would.

Oh, really. I just learned something new about myself. Up until a minute ago, I thought I just wanted near mint cards in my sets. This sure makes my set collecting a lot easier. Thanks!

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Different ways I'd imagine.

For me I just inquired about a card that a set collector has. No dice won't sell. Took a decade to get the complete set. Doesn't really care about the players in the set, just that it's complete. I even offered to trade him a lower grade for what he had, and no more response. Still a complete set for him. I'm a single player collector, and I just want to get the best I can since there's very few cards for me to collect. It has personal value to me for multiple reasons.

That in no way hurts the hobby. A collector acquiring a card and not selling it IS the hobby.

[sb1]

The best way might be to let people know what you are searching for, you have yet to say what it is. Just maybe someone on this board has it or knows someone who does....

[raulus]

Usually your best bet to pick up the commons is going to be on eBay or else through a dealer.

There are a number of dealer-type sellers on eBay who are breaking up larger sets and who offer the option of picking the card that you want from the set. Obviously your one card isn't always going to be on the list, but scrolling through those should be part of your strategy.

Sadly, any way you do it will probably both require a lot of patience, and you may have to overpay a bit to get what you want.

Otherwise, about your only option is usually to buy a larger lot that happens to include the piece that you really want. And then spend a lot of time trying to offload the pieces that you didn't really want but had to buy to get the piece that you really wanted.

[BioCRN]

It's a hell of a thing in the hobby. You want a Cobb, Ruth, etc? There's tons to choose from at any given moment. The only thing holding people back is the cash and/or price.

You want some random semi-star or common? Save searches on sites that let you, enter searches on every random auction that opens, and have friends keep an eye out for you.

It makes sense, but it's a hell of a realization that going after the top dogs is very easy and trying to find some dude that put in 3-5 years then went to work selling insurance might take you years.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Also what type of collector hurts the hobby the most and I'm sure it's subjective. Is it type collectors, set collectors, single team or player, other?

It's definitely single player, star player, rookie card collectors, who hurt the hobby the most. These fellows make it more difficult for set collectors to complete their sets which leads to frustration and disgust with the hobby.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

It's a hell of a thing in the hobby. You want a Cobb, Ruth, etc? There's tons to choose from at any given moment. The only thing holding people back is the cash and/or price.

You want some random semi-star or common? Save searches on sites that let you, enter searches on every random auction that opens, and have friends keep an eye out for you.

It makes sense, but it's a hell of a realization that going after the top dogs is very easy and trying to find some dude that put in 3-5 years then went to work selling insurance might take you years.

^ This.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Different ways I'd imagine.

For me I just inquired about a card that a set collector has. No dice won't sell. Took a decade to get the complete set. Doesn't really care about the players in the set, just that it's complete. I even offered to trade him a lower grade for what he had, and no more response. Still a complete set for him. I'm a single player collector, and I just want to get the best I can since there's very few cards for me to collect. It has personal value to me for multiple reasons.

First, it’s his card and he can do what he wishes. Second, you have it already in lower grade?? Why the whining?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Different ways I'd imagine.

For me I just inquired about a card that a set collector has. No dice won't sell. Took a decade to get the complete set. Doesn't really care about the players in the set, just that it's complete. I even offered to trade him a lower grade for what he had, and no more response. Still a complete set for him. I'm a single player collector, and I just want to get the best I can since there's very few cards for me to collect. It has personal value to me for multiple reasons.

“The hobby” and “your personal interests” are two different things. How is it hurting the hobby for other collectors to not put your collecting over their own? People are not obligated to sell/trade you a card because you want it. There’s a few items I’d like that people won’t sell, but they aren’t hurting the hobby by keeping them and declining my overpay offer. None of us are entitled to an item. Especially if you’re trying to trade them an objectively worse item for an objectively better item. Why would somebody trade you a higher grade copy for a lower grade one? That’s a very bad deal for them.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by G1911

“The hobby” and “your personal interests” are two different things. How is it hurting the hobby for other collectors to not put your collecting over their own? People are not obligated to sell/trade you a card because you want it. There’s a few items I’d like that people won’t sell, but they aren’t hurting the hobby by keeping them and declining my overpay offer. None of us are entitled to an item.

This. Exactly this.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Oh, really. I just learned something new about myself. Up until a minute ago, I thought I just wanted near mint cards in my sets. This sure makes my set collecting a lot easier. Thanks!

Glad I could be of service.

Context is hard thing for some. Don't bump your head from the soap box fall.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

It's a hell of a thing in the hobby. You want a Cobb, Ruth, etc? There's tons to choose from at any given moment. The only thing holding people back is the cash and/or price.

You want some random semi-star or common? Save searches on sites that let you, enter searches on every random auction that opens, and have friends keep an eye out for you.

It makes sense, but it's a hell of a realization that going after the top dogs is very easy and trying to find some dude that put in 3-5 years then went to work selling insurance might take you years.

So true. I messed up a few times early on, and have really paid the piper.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by G1911

The ones who cut up and destroy unique material before even documenting it, hurting research and knowledge. And the fraudsters.

Indeed! They're the worst.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

First, it’s his card and he can do what he wishes. Second, you have it already in lower grade?? Why the whining?

Never said it wasn't.

What I was given for a response was literally he didn't want to break the set up. That's why I responded with an offer, but got nothing back. I did so knowing he had no set parameters with grades because he has [A up to 7] most in the 1 to 4 range.

I don't have the lower card I just know of one I could obtain. He would still have a full set and I could get the card that has personal value I'm looking for.

My reasons are multiple, but I want the best I can get within reason. Everything I find will be donated to the town in which the player(s) came from. I have 2 players to find items for Jerry Mehlisch, Verne Clemons and non player owner Jim Dunn. They all came from the small town of Clemons Iowa. Same town I'm from. I can guarantee my desire far outweighs any guy just trying to get a complete set. All 3 are distant relatives as well.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Never said it wasn't.



What I was given for a response was literally he didn't want to break the set up. That's why I responded with an offer, but got nothing back. I did so knowing he had no set parameters with grades because he has [A up to 7] most in the 1 to 4 range.



I don't have the lower card I just know of one I could obtain. He would still have a full set and I could get the card that has personal value I'm looking for.



My reasons are multiple, but I want the best I can get within reason. Everything I find will be donated to the town in which the player(s) came from. I have 2 players to find items for Jerry Mehlisch, Verne Clemons and non player owner Jim Dunn. They all came from the small town of Clemons Iowa. Same town I'm from. I can guarantee my desire far outweighs any guy just trying to get a complete set. All 3 are distant relatives as well.

This is the most self-centered response I've ever seen.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

My reasons are multiple, but I want the best I can get within reason. Everything I find will be donated to the town in which the player(s) came from. I have 2 players to find items for Jerry Mehlisch, Verne Clemons and non player owner Jim Dunn. They all came from the small town of Clemons Iowa. Same town I'm from. I can guarantee my desire far outweighs any guy just trying to get a complete set. All 3 are distant relatives as well.

Regardless of how pure your motives are, if the current owner isn't really interested in selling, your options are to move on or to make him a stupid high offer that he could never refuse.

Quite honestly, paying way too much for it is about the only way you can really put the strength of your desire into action.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by G1911

“The hobby” and “your personal interests” are two different things. How is it hurting the hobby for other collectors to not put your collecting over their own? People are not obligated to sell/trade you a card because you want it. There’s a few items I’d like that people won’t sell, but they aren’t hurting the hobby by keeping them and declining my overpay offer. None of us are entitled to an item. Especially if you’re trying to trade them an objectively worse item for an objectively better item. Why would somebody trade you a higher grade copy for a lower grade one? That’s a very bad deal for them.

It's not collecting. Again, you're missing context. I just explained it in another post. If a person was looking for the highest grade and that was stated my offer would have never been offered. What was stated was he wanted a complete set and my offer would have still given him that. He's not into high grades as he has A-7 most in the 1 to 4 range. I'm not asking to deal on a HOFer, but a common the guy probably doesn't even know who he is.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by raulus

Regardless of how pure your motives are, if the current owner isn't really interested in selling, your options are to move on or to make him a stupid high offer that he could never refuse.

Quite honestly, paying way too much for it is about the only way you can really put the strength of your desire into action.

Yep, but I don't give them the back story of why I'm wanting the items. I just know many don't even know who they are, and their value is way different then mine.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

This is the most self-centered response I've ever seen.

How so?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

I can guarantee my desire far outweighs any guy just trying to get a complete set.

Your collection is more important than anyone else's. In your mind only.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Your collection is more important than anyone else's. In your mind only.

It's not a collection. It's town history preserved for future generations of a small town of about 140 people. It's people that are blood relatives of mine. I can post personal letters if you think it's just a collection you'll soon find out it's much deeper then that for me. Jerry just passed last year at 92 almost 93 years old. Trust me my intention is far more then a collection like yours may be. Every penny I spend is lost, but the value it brings for others can't be measured.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

It's not a collection. It's town history preserved for future generations of a small town of about 140 people. It's people that are blood relatives of mine. I can post personal letters if you think it's just a collection you'll soon find out it's much deeper then that for me. Jerry just passed last year at 92 almost 93 years old. Trust me my intention is far more then a collection like yours may be. Every penny I spend is lost, but the value it brings for others can't be measured.

Sounds like it's time to break out your check book to buy that card.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by raulus

Sounds like it's time to break out your check book to buy that card.

It's not an option. I'm not a jerk to people. Obviously he was done talking, and I don't push people. I offered and that's all I could do.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

It's not a collection. It's town history preserved for future generations of a small town of about 140 people. It's people that are blood relatives of mine. I can post personal letters if you think it's just a collection you'll soon find out it's much deeper then that for me. Jerry just passed last year at 92 almost 93 years old. Trust me my intention is far more then a collection like yours may be. Every penny I spend is lost, but the value it brings for others can't be measured.

Rationalize it any way you want, but your ownership of the card is no more important or valid than the current owner who wants it for their set. This mindset hurts the hobby more than any type of collector.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Rationalize it any way you want, but your ownership of the card is no more important or valid than the current owner who wants it for their set. This mindset hurts the hobby more than any type of collector.

My ownership? What's your drug of choice? Stupidity?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

It's not an option. I'm not a jerk to people. Obviously he was done talking, and I don't push people. I offered and that's all I could do.

Cool cool.

I guess next time you'll have to make a more enticing initial offer.

Best of luck tracking down all the cards you're looking to pick up for your town.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

It's not collecting. Again, you're missing context. I just explained it in another post. If a person was looking for the highest grade and that was stated my offer would have never been offered. What was stated was he wanted a complete set and my offer would have still given him that. He's not into high grades as he has A-7 most in the 1 to 4 range. I'm not asking to deal on a HOFer, but a common the guy probably doesn't even know who he is.

... Are you seriously arguing that a set collector wanting to keep his higher grade card is not collecting because they didn't give it to you for a lower grade copy? Offering someone a lower grade copy of the card (which you apparently do not even have!) for a nicer one is not of any benefit to the other collector; that's them giving you something for something lesser. Why would they do that? Other people are not obligated to give you things. Other people who do not service your desires are still collectors. A collector is defined as somebody who lets you rip them off and give you whatever you want.

[ronniehatesjazz]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Rationalize it any way you want, but your ownership of the card is no more important or valid than the current owner who wants it for their set. This mindset hurts the hobby more than any type of collector.

You're spot on. I was born in the same town as Mark Lewis and Joe Nuxhall. Being a Cincy fan you most certainly know them both but outside of Ohio, most collectors don't even remember Mark Lewis even though he was once one of the games top prospects and went #2 overall in the 88 draft.

I PC both of them and I would guess I'm one of the larger Lewis collectors there are. Given he played primarily during the junk wax area, there aren't a ton of rarities out there. However, if I came across some random late 90's 1/1 or something, I'd think that card would mean more to me than most people but at the end of the day I'd really have no idea and it wouldn't matter anyways. The OP may very well be correct that he desires the card more than the owner, but he seems to believe he deserves the card more and that's why he came on here griping about which collectors hurt the hobby more lol.

I wish the OP well but coming out to a forum full of the type of collectors who could actually help him attain the cards he's looking for and immediately ask who we believe are the worst among us is not doing him any favors.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz

You're spot on. I was born in the same town as Mark Lewis and Joe Nuxhall. Being a Cincy fan you most certainly know them both but outside of Ohio, most collectors don't even remember Mark Lewis even though he was once one of the games top prospects and went #2 overall in the 88 draft.

I PC both of them and I would guess I'm one of the larger Lewis collectors there are. Given he played primarily during the junk wax area, there aren't a ton of rarities out there. However, if I came across some random late 90's 1/1 or something, I'd think that card would mean more to me than most people but at the end of the day I'd really have no idea and it wouldn't matter anyways. The OP may very well be correct that he desires the card more than the owner, but he seems to believe he deserves the card more and that's why he came on here griping about which collectors hurt the hobby more lol.

I wish the OP well but coming out to a forum full of the type of collectors who could actually help him attain the cards he's looking for and immediately ask who we believe are the worst among us is not doing him any favors.

I'm sorry, but I included myself as an option in the list. I was actually just curious. I'd say some people are thin skinned or a nerve above the skin was hit.

My main question was how to find common players, and somehow some have missed that others hit the nail on the head. I think a look back may help you understand my take because I'm sorry, but you're really far off on your conclusion.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by G1911

... Are you seriously arguing that a set collector wanting to keep his higher grade card is not collecting because they didn't give it to you for a lower grade copy? Offering someone a lower grade copy of the card (which you apparently do not even have!) for a nicer one is not of any benefit to the other collector; that's them giving you something for something lesser. Why would they do that? Other people are not obligated to give you things. Other people who do not service your desires are still collectors. A collector is defined as somebody who lets you rip them off and give you whatever you want.

Is reading comprehension that much of a lost art?
Seriously is it?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Is reading comprehension that much of a lost art?
Seriously is it?

Now you're trying to out-Greg the OG (original Greg)!

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Is reading comprehension that much of a lost art?
Seriously is it?

Yes. I’m the dumbest fellow alive. But even I know I’m not entitled to anyone’s cards and don’t make threads bitching someone didn’t let me rip them off.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by G1911

Yes. I’m the dumbest fellow alive. But even I know I’m not entitled to anyone’s cards and don’t make threads bitching someone didn’t let me rip them off.

You say so, I'll gladly agree.

Where have I stated I'm entitled to anyone's card? By suggesting a trade? How would I be ripping someone off?

[ronniehatesjazz]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

You say so, I'll gladly agree.

Where have I stated I'm entitled to anyone's card? By suggesting a trade? How would I be ripping someone off?

Sorry but you're just clueless man. Reminds me of the jokester on here a few years back trying to trade up from a $1.00 card to a Jackie Robinson rookie. You're oblivious to your own foolishness.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

You say so, I'll gladly agree.

Where have I stated I'm entitled to anyone's card? By suggesting a trade? How would I be ripping someone off?

You made a thread that is 50% whining that someone didn't trade you a higher grade copy of a card for a lower grade copy of the same card. That is a rip off offer. Why would a stranger give you a more valuable higher grade copy for a low grade? Why are you so incredibly entitled as to believe that your great higher purpose is more important and makes this in any way reasonable? Why would set collectors give you better, more valuable copies just because you are special and 'want it more' (though apparently not enough to make a fair offer)?

[ronniehatesjazz]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

I'm sorry, but I included myself as an option in the list. I was actually just curious. I'd say some people are thin skinned or a nerve above the skin was hit.

My main question was how to find common players, and somehow some have missed that others hit the nail on the head. I think a look back may help you understand my take because I'm sorry, but you're really far off on your conclusion.

Haha, it's not thin skinned when you throw out passive aggressive insults about collectors, regardless if it's pointed at an individual or a certain segment of the hobby. A simple message like the one below would've got you the answers you were looking for and potentially someone on here helping you get the cards you're after.

"Hello everyone, I'm trying to pick up a few rare cards of a couple of obscure players that happen to have grown up in my hometown. I'd like to pick up the best copies if possible, as the cards will end up in a local museum some day. I haven't had any luck with a few set collectors that had high grade examples of the cards I'm looking for, any suggestions? Thanks!"

That's all you needed to say.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

You say so, I'll gladly agree.

Where have I stated I'm entitled to anyone's card? By suggesting a trade? How would I be ripping someone off?

When you offered to trade him a lower grade card for his higher grade card, was it straight up or did you also offer cash along with the lower grade card?

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by G1911

You made a thread that is 50% whining that someone didn't trade you a higher grade copy of a card for a lower grade copy of the same card. That is a rip off offer. Why would a stranger give you a more valuable higher grade copy for a low grade? Why are you so incredibly entitled as to believe that your great higher purpose is more important and makes this in any way reasonable? Why would set collectors give you better, more valuable copies just because you are special and 'want it more' (though apparently not enough to make a fair offer)?

Suck at reading comprehension and math! Now let's go for the trifecta.

Then there's this lil nugget about a great ripoff. I'll slow down the keyboard so you can understand.

The person I emailed about his card told me he didn't want to "break" his set. I then offered a lower grade card in exchange for his higher grade card to keep his full set. I know this will come as a huge shock to you, but it wasn't card for card. It was for cash and card.

The person strictly responded he wanted to have a complete set. This person has cards that range from A to 7 and most at 1 to 4. He didn't respond and that was the end of my conversation with him. I'm such a jerk! It was a total of 2 emails. There was no crying, no entitlement or anything else you have suggested or read into it.

I'll put this out there for you as well. True story I had a transaction with a person that sold me the highest grade card of V100 for said player then went out found a lower grade card and completed his set. The ignorance of this guy. He's actually a poster on Net54.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Suck at reading comprehension and math! Now let's go for the trifecta.

Then there's this lil nugget about a great ripoff. I'll slow down the keyboard so you can understand.

The person I emailed about his card told me he didn't want to "break" his set. I then offered a lower grade card in exchange for his higher grade card to keep his full set. I know this will come as a huge shock to you, but it wasn't card for card. It was for cash and card.

The person strictly responded he wanted to have a complete set. This person has cards that range from A to 7 and most at 1 to 4. He didn't respond and that was the end of my conversation with him. I'm such a jerk! It was a total of 2 emails. There was no crying, no entitlement or anything else you have suggested or read into it.

I'll put this out there for you as well. True story I had a transaction with a person that sold me the highest grade card of V100 for said player then went out found a lower grade card and completed his set. The ignorance of this guy. He's actually a poster on Net54.

A highly pertinent fact mysteriously and strangely kept out until right now! It is my acumen at math, of course, that should allow me to divine information you didn't disclose, say, or hint at it while repeatedly talking about trading a lower grade card for a higher one! I cannot imagine why you are having problems making deals with people.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by jayshum

When you offered to trade him a lower grade card for his higher grade card, was it straight up or did you also offer cash along with the lower grade card?

It never got that far because he stopped responding, but yes I would have included cash. His end was all about keeping the set, not about the grade or at least that wasn't the impression I got from him. I'll clarify by saying I did offer cash, but it never got to an amount because he stopped the conversation.