At Risk of Adding Fuel to the Fire - Another RIP

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Posted By: Vincent

I realize this should likely be posted within the Memorabilia forum, but the prior related O/T RIP threads were posted within this forum.

I just heard that former Detroit Tigers ballplayer and executive John McHale passed away yesterday, at the age of 86. While certainly never to be confused as a major league star ballplayer, Mr. McHale was a member of the 1945 World Series Champion Detroit Tigers, and (for me) an aways accomondating autograph signer. I can't help but feel a sense of loss of another small part of baseball's past. It was a similar loss (death of former Detroit Tigers pitcher Johnny Gorsica) that motivated my start into the collecting of vintage Detroit Tiger autographs, 10-12 years ago.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

And let's not forget '69 Met Don Cardwell and '50 Whiz Kid Steve Ridzik, both of whom also left us.

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Posted By: Jason L

Also dead:
Ty Cobb
Hal Chase
Honus Wagner
Aristotle
Moses
Christy Mathewson
Babe Ruth
Lou Gehrig
and Connie Mack

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Posted By: barrysloate

When did Moses die? I missed that one.

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Posted By: Rich Klein

I don't believe Moses' body has ever been found -- and if that was a soap opera -- they'd find a way to bring him back

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I think I'm a bit too abrasive here, from time to time. So I understand what has happened to Vincent's thread.

Mr. McHale's passing is truly noteworthy.

He played the game, how many of us did?

He was General Manager for the Tigers... and later GM for the Braves, having the misfortune to catch flak for the Braves' move to Atlanta, even though it should have all been aimed at ownership. He served in the Commissioner's office for William Eckert. McHale was president for the Expos in their infancy, and was their GM when they had their only playoff appearance in 1981.

To understand what a well respected baseball man Mr. McHale was, please consider that he was the last member of the Hall of Fame's Veterans Committee who was not himself a member of the Hall. Those guys, that close knit bunch, trusted Mr. McHale in their midst.

So consider cutting Vincent some slack.

FW

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Posted By: JK

You've got to be freakin' kidding me. If its somehow relevant to the hobby (i.e. Mr. Fritsch, etc.), that is one thing. But must we note the passing of every person who ever played a sport, managed a team or owned a franchise? Or for that matter famous individuals generally?

If so, I will scour espn, cnn, fox news, msnbc, etc. and be sure to provide daily updates to the board.

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Posted By: James Feagin

JK,

I like you, but you're new little crusade is already boring. The death of a pre-war ballplayer (I would argue any ballplayer) is relavant.

James

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Once in a while I wonder who has seen the most major league baseball games. Red Schoendienst (and no, I didn't have to look up the spelling) usually comes to my mind. He played in about 2500 games, managed a bunch, coached a zillion... Leo Durocher would be up there. Mr. Mack, too. And a gentleman like Mr. McHale would, too.

Maybe the standard should be a fellow gets mentioned here if he won 300+ games, or had 3000+ hits. Or just be in the Hall. Some of us are passionate about cards. For some it is the cards and the history of the game. Without the game there would be no cards. And without Mr. McHale, the history of the game would be different. To paraphrase the court decision about Mr. Lajoie's contract and league jumping... Mr. McHale might not have been the brightest baseball star in the firmament, but he shone fairly bright. Bright enough for someone passionate about baseball to be aware of his contributions to the game, to be aware of his passing.

I enjoyed my phone conversations with Mr. Fritsch, but never met him. I regret having not mailed a 3x5 to Mr. McHale. Larry did help our hobby along. Mr. McHale played the game, was with a pennant winner, got a World's Championship ring, GM'ed in both leagues, worked in the Commissioner's office, was in the middle of a historic move, and took an expansion team from inception to the playoffs. And was someone entrusted with making veteran's selections for the Hall. THAT is noteworthy.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Frank,

I would be happy to give you a 3X5 of John McHale. He was a very courteous signer--I wrote to him twice (in two different countries) and always received a prompt reply. Email me.

Jodi

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Oh, and in reponse to Frank's query, I'm sure Connie Mack takes the cake. Others who must have seen a ton of games include Clyde Sukeforth and Jimmie Reese.

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Posted By: JK

James,

Im glad you like me. But, no disrespect intended, I dont care if you are bored with my "crusade". Ive been here longer than you, I remember what the board was like before it became innuendated with off topic posts. I remember when leon started his own board because the off topic posts were getting to be too frequent. I remember when leons board and the old N54 board merged, leon took over, and there was a promise of a new day (so to speak) of a focused vintage card board. Sorry, that is not what we have now. So excuse me if I am trying to make a crusade out of this.

Edited to add: McHale played from 1943 to 48. That is hardly the time frame focused on by this board. And literally interpreted, not pre-war.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I've got a couple of minor league team signed balls from the 1930s with Clyde Sukeforth's signature on them. 1937 and 1938 Clinton Owls (III League).

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Posted By: JK

In case anyone wanted to start another RIP thread, I just wanted to make sure we didnt over look providing our condolences to the families of the following sports figures who died earlier this month:

William Thrace Ramsey (October 20, 1920 – January 4, 2008) was a Major League Baseball outfielder who played for the Boston Braves in 1945. He was born in Osceola, Arkansas.

Frank Loughran (died January 11, 2008) was a Belfast-born footballer who was considered to be one of the pioneers of the sport in Australia.[1]

James Stewart (March 6, 1931 – January 3, 2008[1]) was a British racing driver from Scotland who participated in a single World Championship Grand Prix, driving for Ecurie Ecosse. He was the elder brother of Jackie Stewart.

Christopher Bowman (March 30, 1967–January 10, 2008) was an American figure skater. He was a two-time U.S. national champion and two-time World medalist. He won the 1983 World Junior Figure Skating Championships and competed in two Olympic Winter Games, placing 7th in 1988 and 4th in 1992.

Sir Edmund Percival Hillary, KG, ONZ, KBE (July 20, 1919 – January 11, 2008) was a New Zealand mountaineer and explorer.[1][2] On 29 May 1953 at the age of 33, he and Sherpa mountaineer Tenzing Norgay became the first climbers known to have reached the summit of Mount Everest.

Marty Hendin (March 16, 1948 – January 12, 2008) was a baseball executive who worked in various marketing, public relations, and community relations posts for the St. Louis Cardinals of Major League Baseball. Inducted into the University of Missouri-St. Louis Sports Hall of Fame in 2003, Hendin began his career with the Cardinals in 1973.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Clyde was a great fellow. I visited him in Maine in 1994, and we exchanged a slew of correspondence for several years. He was a very self-effacing man, educated, VERY much an old-school New Englander! One of my favorites.

I actually remember him telling me a funny story involving Kirby Higbe from when Clyde managed Clinton! I'd love to see your baseballs! Send me scans if you're so inclined!

Jodi

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Jodi, I am at work all day today, but will send you some photos tomorrow.

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Posted By: Steve

Unless you're the lead dog, the view never changes;

Similar to when Buzz Aldrin turned back from the hatch to take a sip of Tang... For helping that British fellow up that last boulder, that poor Sherpa dude gets nothing more than a blurb.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Funny thing. I corresponded with Sir Edmund for a little while, too. He even spent his own money to mail letters back. Another man who was not affected by his stature.

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Posted By: James Feagin

Josh,

Just so you know. When Billie Werber or Sonny Frey have their 100th birthday or die, I will make a thread about it. I say this as not to raise your blood pressure or cause you any panic....just so you can feel as ease and be prepared.

James (the hobby newbie)

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

I assume "Sonny" was a typo. Both Lonny and Werber are great old guys. I'll be the first to reply to your threads!

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Posted By: James Feagin

Mr. Frey was aka Sonny back in the day....

James

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

He disputes that. I asked him about it. And, if you want to see a 97 year-old get really fired up, call him by his other supposed nickname, "Junior". "I was NOT a 'Junior'!". It really bothers him for some reason.

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Posted By: James Feagin

Heavens bless Mr. Frey and the 1940 Reds. Three players from that squad are still around and are a wealth of baseball knowledge (the 1939 Reds have four). When I last counted there were between 8-10 players still with us from both the 1940 and 1941 Play Ball sets.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Some 1940 Reds Snapshots











edited to add - these photos are all from the 1940 World Series - If anyone could identify the fellow below I would be much obliged.

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Posted By: JK

James - you do as you see fit, and I will do as I see fit. As for the "hobby newbie" moniker - I said no such thing. I only said that Ive been a regular on this board longer for the purpose of explaining that I have some historical background that you may not possess. Nothing else.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Those are really nice snapshots. The Werber is obvoiusly not signed--just an identifier.

I want to see that replica that someone built of Crosley Field. It's in Ohio somewhere. Apparently it's so true-to-life that Haddix cried when he saw it (I think it was Haddix). I have a brick from Crosley. Former MLB/American Association knuckleballer Tot Pressnell had it in his basement and gave it to me a while back.

Edited to add: No, it wasn't Haddix; it was Johnny Temple.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Josh, I can understand your feelings towards this, and it does appear that maybe some of the RIP threads were started just to bait you, but I went back in the archives and noticed that OT threads have always been prevalent on this board.

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Posted By: howard

Dan, that looks like George Raft.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Good call Howard! I have to agree with you.

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Posted By: leon

For the record I always consider the source of the bitching.....I don't really need to say anything else about that. Ya'll know the rest. The board is doing fine in my opinion. I see a few folks saying there should be a little less off topic. I would probably agree with that. If there is a death of an old baseball player, or related person from that era, then I don't see an issue with it being posted. As always the further off topic the less leniency and those things that are way off topic should really be kept to a minimum...per the rules which have not changed, with respect to off topic, since day 1 of the change from Bill to myself and Brian...

Those pics are really cool Dan....thanks for showing them. Something good did come out of this thread. Much appreciated JK....best regards

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Dan, you really need to post more of your photos.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Definitely George Raft. No doubt about it.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Steve,

That Sherpa dude, Tenzing Norgay, did fairly well on the deal. Sir Edmund, not a Brit, he was from New Zealand, took Norgay's photograph, now famous. No photo of Hillary was taken on the summit that day.

Over the years Hillary devoted much of his time and his financial resources to Norgay, his family, and his countrymen.

Great Reds photos up there!!!

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Thanks guys - George Raft at the 1940 World Series.

Here's another one for Jodi - Tot Presnell


Here's a few of the 1940 Tigers at Crosley field







Here's one of Vince DiMaggio with the Reds...he only played a few games for them.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Very cool! I have never seen a batting pose of Tot! I recently picked up a signed original snapshot photo of Tot taken at Crosley in 1939--the Centennial patch was on his left sleeve. From the same collection I also snagged a pic signed by Bill DeLancey, arguably the toughest signature to find from the fabled Gas House Gang. It makes a nice addition to the letter I have written by DeLancey's widow to pioneering collector J.J. Siko in 1949.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

More Pressnell

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Who is that with Tot? I can't place him. I'm sure it will be obvious once you tell me!

FYI, Tot hated Grimes as a manager, but loved Leo.

Furillo hated Leo, but loved Burt.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Some guy who liked to hang out with the Dodgers at Spring Training every year..I do not know if he ever had a formal relationship with the Dodgers, but he suited up every spring. I believe he may have been associated with a semi-pro or minor league team in Brooklyn in the 1930s





Lucky enough to have his photo taken by George Brace


Here's one of my favorite Peterman photos

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Posted By: Rich Klein

He was a funny funny man who still had all his wits about him.

So many retired players do things for SABR; I know this is a broken record (but without SABR Jay here -- someone needs to say this) -- but if you are not a member of SABR -- you are missing out on quite a bit.

The one bad news for SABR is that the bi-annual (every 2 years) DEADBALL conference in Hot Springs, Arkansas was shelved for this year. Hopefully that will be held next year -- I love going there.

Regards
Rich

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Posted By: Bob

It's a state holiday each year in many states in the South. He stood for chivalry and honor and is the one lasting icon not tainted by time nor forgotten as this Republic becomes more and more "Americanized" throughout and more nationally amalgamated in thought, word and culture.
Happy birthday Marse Robert, we honor you on your day and honor Martin Luther King Jr. on Monday.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I sent a few photos to David Fleitz a SABR member who knew Pressnell and his family.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

I was a SABR member on two separate occasions. I found it to be a situation of, "What do YOU have to offer US?". With the exception of Dick Malatzky and one kind fellow from MA whose name escapes me (could it be Richard Thompson?), every SABR member I had contact with was not willing to share their info. They were incredibly hungry for anything I cared to share, however. It left a rancid taste in my mouth. My experience was that the Society was filled with self-serving individuals. I hope I'm wrong, but I gave SABR two chances and ended up disappointed both times. It's a shame, really; I wish it had turned out differently.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I have been a member of SABR on two separate occasions as well and let my membership lapse simply because I could not get anyone to help me with info I was looking for. I made numerous pleas for help online and all pleas went unanswered...I did have many inquiries about my knowledge of Nebraska minor league teams and the last inquiry I got left a bad taste in my mouth after I did some research for a fellow in South Dakota and was never thanked for it.

I have found the people on this forum to be far more helpful in historical baseball questions than anyone from SABR.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Glad it's not just me.

Regarding Pressnell, he was the first player I ever went to visit. I returned to see him probably 20 times, as he was only a few hours' drive from my hometown in Canada. I must have rolled 15 hours worth of tape on him. His family wasn't interested in his vast memorabilia collection, and he was subsequently scammed out of it by a local attorney. I'd really hate to run into that shyster now; I might be tempted to give him more than just a piece of my mind.