How Rare Is Rare?

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Posted By: bruce dorskind

Would be intereseted to see a scan of the type card that you consider
among the top 10 rarities in the hobby.

Clearly, most of the super rare type cards have not been graded by
SCG or PSA....many remain in the hands of collectors from the
pre-1975 era or in libraries

As promised earlier, I will (on Monday Labor Day) be happy to send
a scan (up to three) of any of the top 10 rare type cards from my collection.

I have pubished several articles in the past about rare cards
and would be interested in creating one about the super rare
type cards. It would provide an excellent contrast to the
1950's condition rariity statements that permeate some auction
catalogs and E Bay announcements/

A worthwhile project would be to review all the major auction
catalogs for the past 30 years (about 300 catalogs) and identify
how often certain type cards or so called rarities appeared.

This exercise has been undertaken with great success for the coin
and stamp hobbies and book s are regularly published.

I would believe that given the growth of the hobby, this presents
an opportunity for someone to earn a very good return on their
investment. of time and energy


The auction catalogs that I would consider for the period 1975-2005

Christies
Hake (for pins)
Leslie Hindman
Hunt
Lelands
Lifson
Lipset
Mastro (Mastro and Steinbach etc)
Bary Sloate
Jerry Smolin
Sotheby's
Superior
Wollfers (long since out of business)

There was also a small firm that was in business for 3 years that auctioned
two Cracker Jack posters and a number of mint cracker jack and e-cards.
I have their catalog in storage- would be interested if anyone recalls their
name.


My vote for rarest type cards are:

Four Base Hits
Just So
G&B
August Beck
1890 Players League Series (uncataloged)
Monarch Typwriter
Western Playground
Bishop Team Cards
Big Eater
Tarzan Bread


Thanks for your time. Look forward to hearing from you, directly.

Bruce

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Posted By: Elliot

Hi Bruce, I would love to see scans of some(all) of your rare cards. For everybody's benefit do you think that you can post them in this thread, as I'm sure I'm not the only one. If you require help to post them, please contact me and i would be glad to help you do so, or could post them on your behalf if you were to forward them to me via email. (nyknightsfan@aol.com)

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Posted By: tobacco-r-us

"....many remain in the hands of collectors from the pre-175 era or in libraries"

Er uh, would that be 175 BC or AD?

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Posted By: leon

Thanks...I too have offered help for Bruce in posting pics......looking forward to those great cards !!!!!

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Yes, Bruce, I agree -- why not scan all of those cards? I'd love to see them.

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Posted By: leon

Bruce has sent me scans of several very nice cards to try to help get them posted. I am not that great with resizing. I have sent them to my right hand guy (Brian) but hopefully he's doing something more constructive than the board If anyone could help let me know and I will shoot you the scans. They look real nice...but again, are not able to be posted the way they are. Any techies out there? thanks

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Bruce--All of those are relatively common compared to the 1886 Hancock Clothing cards---three exist, each is unique. These photographic cards represent players from the Syracuse Stars and the three known players are Buckley, Crothers and Tomney. Buckley and Tomney later appeared in the Old Judge set; Crothers, a great minor league pitcher, never played in the "majors". I think the 1916 Everybody's M101 derivative set would also rank in the top ten. Leon is the expert in this area and can probably add a few. However, just as a general point, a G&B or a Western Playground for example are nowhere near the rarest type card.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

wouldnt Boston Garters fit into this category ?

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Posted By: Marc S.

Thanks for your time and effort, Bruce. Such genorosity on your part is very welcomed here. I, as many others, would love to see some scans that you could provide. Especially to those of us who are new to this arena of collection [new meaning within the last 5-10 years].

I don't see much mention of the Niagra Baking issue - but my understanding is that it is incredibly rare, too. I wonder if that is because some dismiss it as a pure overprint, as opposed to a candy issue that was over-printed to be distributed as a baking issue.

~ms

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Posted By: bruce dorskind

I would agree that the 1912 Boston Garter cards are super rare-
only about 18 known in total

Jay's comments on Hancock Clothing also are accurate- and same
would apply to Fan Cigaretes - of which only two (bad shape)
are known.

Jay, as I recall won those cards on E Bay 4 or 5 years ago- I was
also bidding

The reason that I did not mention them was I was only including cards
for which I own a sample.

My goal is to obtain definitive population samples of these rare
items...much like we look to obtain definitiive population samples
of near extinct animals...

Comments welcome

Bruce

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

While I mocked Dmitri Young for selling a CD with his card images...

I would GLADLY purchase a CD with the images of all of these ULTRA-RARE type cards that you guys are mentioning!

Hopefully Bruce can get all of this information together, along with scans from everyone...

and enlighten all of us!!!

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

do you have any of the above mentioned???

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Posted By: leon

Download your site onto a cd, put it in your pocket, and save the money....

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Posted By: Glen V

I'm confused. How can certain rare types be ingored because someone doesn't own one?

Rarest (all unique for a player):

Henry Reccuis Cigars Wagner - 1 know
T231 Fans - 2 known
Hancock Clothing - 3 known
Vassar Sweaters - 5 known
Alpha Photo-Engraving - 14 known
Allegheny...

Plenty of uncatalogued cards for which only one may exist for a player, including '21 W-Unc Self Developing Strip Cards, Leader Novelty, BF-104s, etc.

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Posted By: WP

Tremendous idea. Bruce

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

Plenty of other sets to consider...(these are just 19th century)

Hancock Clothing
Sporting Times
Police Gazette Cabinets
K-Bats New York Players
N338-1 Cal League
Red Stocking Cigars
Gypsy Queen Large


-Rhett

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Posted By: leon

The "rarest" card is sort of a relative term. Any card with 1 known would have to be at the top, if there were no restrictions. Then 2 after that and so on..Also, we have to talk about what is classified as a card, and if this rarity "test" includes proofs , sets not in ACC , etc...? There are too many variables to say what the rarest card is other than if there is one then that has to be the rarest (and there are surly single specimans of many cards). Hal's Recius Wagner is rarer than his T206 but that doesn't make it worth more, just ask him ? (I know you are reading Hal, and am just joking). So value has no play in this question either. By definiton the rarest ACC baseball set would have to be the T231. Being that there are only 2 known and only one physical one. After that there are numerous that come to mind, again only talking listed in the ACC. Four Base Hits is actually listed as N690 so it's in there. Just So's, Hancock Clothing, Boston Garters, etc... aren't listed as well as a lot of other cards that would fall into this category. The Niagra Baking is listed and I have only personally seen 1. (in an auction). We must qualify too if a "stamp" on the back qualifies a card as being a seperate series. If we are stict ACC people then it does. The Niagra one is a stamp on the back of a more common e card. ( I forget which one but it's an anonymous one...e101, e102 etc)...great topic...

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Posted By: Andrew

I suppose by definition, the rarest is one in which only one example exists. Therefore, it's probably a massive tie. The 1966 Topps Punchout - not to be confused with the more common 1967 Topps Punchboard - should be right up there. It's highly probable that only one example of each player (for which there is no complete known checklist) exists.

“A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.” - English Proverbhttp://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125859571.JPG

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Posted By: Richard

Just a thought, Leon, but if you want you can email me the pics that won't upload, and I can put them onto my web site (and link to them). That way they won't take up anyone's N54 space, but everyone can see them. Just a thought...

Richard (richard@richardarmstrong.ca).

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Posted By: Jerry Spillman

Bruce Dorkind's Type Cards

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Posted By: Paul

Here are a few:

Allegheny Frank Selee (set of 103 players, each believed to be unique)
S.R. Church Rube Waddell (only one from this set I've ever heard of)
Imperial Chocolate of Ruth & Hornsby (a Speaker also exists. I've never heard of a second example of either card)
1982 Korean card of Tom Seaver (I've never heard of another).

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Posted By: Elliot

Beautiful cards...Let's see some more.

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Posted By: Wesley

Great cards! Which ones above belong to Bruce Dorkind? The Boston Garters?

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Posted By: Craig Lipman

Wes,
Dorskind's are the Just So , the 4B hits, the Monarch and the Garters.
Now lets see something from the Wes collection. The way you people are accumulating wealth you ought to have something good to share.

If you take different back types into account the recently discovered E121 Herpolsheimer's uncatalouged should be in the mix as far as rarity. Although not rare in the sense of the T231s (with only one copy total)the individual players are rare with only one known of each to exist.
Here is a scan of one of mine

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Posted By: Craig Lipman

whoops I forgot the front; sorry I'm a newbie with the whole posting thing.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

Just one set, as far as anybody knows. Nicew cardsa, too. Full-length portraits on a white background.

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Posted By: David Smith

Here is my meager contribution to this topic; a Gypsy Queen Large (well, medium since it has been trimmed) and an uncatalogued 1928 Star Player Candy card of Buddy Myer. I also have a BF 104 of Mickey Cochrane and a Cameo Pepsin pin of John Pappaulan. The last two are probably not as hard to find as the first two, but then again, maybe they are.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

from 1917

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Posted By: zach

well not nearly as rare as anything posted so far here is my rarest "type card". T209 color

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Rare


Sort of rare-E105 Cobb

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Posted By: Nick

It would be interesting to try to determine how many of the rare cards from certain sets (such as the 1933 U.S. Caramel Fred Lindstrom) exist.

Certain back varieties from T-206, as well as some overprints, would also qualify in this category.

Nick

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Posted By: Greg Martin

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Posted By: leon

Thanks for rubbing in the Wagner That's a great card...had I had more disposable income that evening he would have been mine....you rat....

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Posted By: warshawlaw

1949 Japanese Bromide Lefty O'Doul:


Pinkerton Scorecards of Tinker and Wagner, neither catalogued until recently:



N174 George Godfrey

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Posted By: Harry Wallace (HW)

Bruce,

The auction house that I think that you are referring to is Goober's out of the San Francisco area. It was run by a gentleman named Steve Price.

Three other auction houses that I would add to your catalog list would be Superior Galleries (the one out of Beverly Hills, I assume you were referencing the Collector's Universe auction house); Ron Oser; and Guernsey's.

And since you are going all of the way back to 1975, most all of the early auctions were run out of the pages of The Trader Speaks are Sports Collectors Digest. Lots of rare stuff in the early The Trader Speaks Auctions by guys like Richard Egan, Bill Heitman, Bill Haber, George Lyons, etc.

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Posted By: bruce dorskind

Goobers is the auction house- I do have copies of auctions by Heitman, Mike Berkus,
Jim Nowell (regional king) and a number of other old old time collectors.

Thanks for the input.


Bruce

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

Only a dozen or so subjects known, and as far as I know, only one example of each subject.