How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>bruce dorskind</b><p><br /><br />Would be intereseted to see a scan of the type card that you consider<br />among the top 10 rarities in the hobby.<br /><br />Clearly, most of the super rare type cards have not been graded by<br />SCG or PSA....many remain in the hands of collectors from the<br />pre-1975 era or in libraries <br /><br />As promised earlier, I will (on Monday Labor Day) be happy to send<br />a scan (up to three) of any of the top 10 rare type cards from my collection.<br /><br />I have pubished several articles in the past about rare cards<br />and would be interested in creating one about the super rare<br />type cards. It would provide an excellent contrast to the<br />1950's condition rariity statements that permeate some auction<br />catalogs and E Bay announcements/<br /><br />A worthwhile project would be to review all the major auction<br />catalogs for the past 30 years (about 300 catalogs) and identify<br />how often certain type cards or so called rarities appeared.<br /><br />This exercise has been undertaken with great success for the coin<br />and stamp hobbies and book s are regularly published.<br /><br />I would believe that given the growth of the hobby, this presents<br />an opportunity for someone to earn a very good return on their<br />investment. of time and energy<br /><br /><br />The auction catalogs that I would consider for the period 1975-2005<br /><br />Christies<br />Hake (for pins)<br />Leslie Hindman<br />Hunt<br />Lelands<br />Lifson<br />Lipset<br />Mastro (Mastro and Steinbach etc)<br />Bary Sloate<br />Jerry Smolin<br />Sotheby's<br />Superior<br />Wollfers (long since out of business)<br /><br />There was also a small firm that was in business for 3 years that auctioned<br />two Cracker Jack posters and a number of mint cracker jack and e-cards.<br />I have their catalog in storage- would be interested if anyone recalls their<br />name.<br /><br /><br />My vote for rarest type cards are:<br /><br />Four Base Hits<br />Just So<br />G&B <br />August Beck<br />1890 Players League Series (uncataloged)<br />Monarch Typwriter<br />Western Playground<br />Bishop Team Cards<br />Big Eater<br />Tarzan Bread<br /><br /><br />Thanks for your time. Look forward to hearing from you, directly.<br /><br />Bruce<br />

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>Hi Bruce, I would love to see scans of some(all) of your rare cards. For everybody's benefit do you think that you can post them in this thread, as I'm sure I'm not the only one. If you require help to post them, please contact me and i would be glad to help you do so, or could post them on your behalf if you were to forward them to me via email. (nyknightsfan@aol.com)

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>tobacco-r-us</b><p>"....many remain in the hands of collectors from the pre-175 era or in libraries"<br /><br />Er uh, would that be 175 BC or AD? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Thanks...I too have offered help for Bruce in posting pics......looking forward to those great cards !!!!!

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Yes, Bruce, I agree -- why not scan all of those cards? I'd love to see them.

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Bruce has sent me scans of several very nice cards to try to help get them posted. I am not that great with resizing. I have sent them to my right hand guy (Brian) but hopefully he's doing something more constructive than the board <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> If anyone could help let me know and I will shoot you the scans. They look real nice...but again, are not able to be posted the way they are. Any techies out there? thanks

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Jay Miller</b><p>Bruce--All of those are relatively common compared to the 1886 Hancock Clothing cards---three exist, each is unique. These photographic cards represent players from the Syracuse Stars and the three known players are Buckley, Crothers and Tomney. Buckley and Tomney later appeared in the Old Judge set; Crothers, a great minor league pitcher, never played in the "majors". I think the 1916 Everybody's M101 derivative set would also rank in the top ten. Leon is the expert in this area and can probably add a few. However, just as a general point, a G&B or a Western Playground for example are nowhere near the rarest type card.

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>wouldnt Boston Garters fit into this category ?

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>Thanks for your time and effort, Bruce. Such genorosity on your part is very welcomed here. I, as many others, would love to see some scans that you could provide. Especially to those of us who are new to this arena of collection [new meaning within the last 5-10 years].<br /><br />I don't see much mention of the Niagra Baking issue - but my understanding is that it is incredibly rare, too. I wonder if that is because some dismiss it as a pure overprint, as opposed to a candy issue that was over-printed to be distributed as a baking issue.<br /><br />~ms

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>bruce dorskind</b><p><br /><br />I would agree that the 1912 Boston Garter cards are super rare-<br />only about 18 known in total<br /><br />Jay's comments on Hancock Clothing also are accurate- and same<br />would apply to Fan Cigaretes - of which only two (bad shape)<br />are known.<br /><br />Jay, as I recall won those cards on E Bay 4 or 5 years ago- I was<br />also bidding<br /><br />The reason that I did not mention them was I was only including cards<br />for which I own a sample.<br /><br />My goal is to obtain definitive population samples of these rare<br />items...much like we look to obtain definitiive population samples<br />of near extinct animals...<br /><br />Comments welcome<br /><br />Bruce

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>While I mocked Dmitri Young for selling a CD with his card images...<br /><br />I would GLADLY purchase a CD with the images of all of these ULTRA-RARE type cards that you guys are mentioning!<br /><br />Hopefully Bruce can get all of this information together, along with scans from everyone...<br /><br />and enlighten all of us!!!

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>do you have any of the above mentioned???

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Download your site onto a cd, put it in your pocket, and save the money....

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Glen V</b><p>I'm confused. How can certain rare types be ingored because someone doesn't own one?<br /><br />Rarest (all unique for a player):<br /><br />Henry Reccuis Cigars Wagner - 1 know<br />T231 Fans - 2 known<br />Hancock Clothing - 3 known<br />Vassar Sweaters - 5 known<br />Alpha Photo-Engraving - 14 known<br />Allegheny...<br /><br />Plenty of uncatalogued cards for which only one may exist for a player, including '21 W-Unc Self Developing Strip Cards, Leader Novelty, BF-104s, etc.

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>WP</b><p>Tremendous idea. Bruce

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>Plenty of other sets to consider...(these are just 19th century)<br /><br />Hancock Clothing<br />Sporting Times<br />Police Gazette Cabinets<br />K-Bats New York Players<br />N338-1 Cal League<br />Red Stocking Cigars<br />Gypsy Queen Large<br /><br /><br />-Rhett<br />

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>The "rarest" card is sort of a relative term. Any card with 1 known would have to be at the top, if there were no restrictions. Then 2 after that and so on..Also, we have to talk about what is classified as a card, and if this rarity "test" includes proofs , sets not in ACC , etc...? There are too many variables to say what the rarest card is other than if there is one then that has to be the rarest (and there are surly single specimans of many cards). Hal's Recius Wagner is rarer than his T206 but that doesn't make it worth more, just ask him <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> ? (I know you are reading Hal, and am just joking). So value has no play in this question either. By definiton the rarest ACC baseball set would have to be the T231. Being that there are only 2 known and only one physical one. After that there are numerous that come to mind, again only talking listed in the ACC. Four Base Hits is actually listed as N690 so it's in there. Just So's, Hancock Clothing, Boston Garters, etc... aren't listed as well as a lot of other cards that would fall into this category. The Niagra Baking is listed and I have only personally seen 1. (in an auction). We must qualify too if a "stamp" on the back qualifies a card as being a seperate series. If we are stict ACC people then it does. The Niagra one is a stamp on the back of a more common e card. ( I forget which one but it's an anonymous one...e101, e102 etc)...great topic...

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Andrew</b><p>I suppose by definition, the rarest is one in which only one example exists. Therefore, it's probably a massive tie. The 1966 Topps Punchout - not to be confused with the more common 1967 Topps Punchboard - should be right up there. It's highly probable that only one example of each player (for which there is no complete known checklist) exists.<br /><br />“A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.” - English Proverbhttp://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125859571.JPG <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125859571.JPG">

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Just a thought, Leon, but if you want you can email me the pics that won't upload, and I can put them onto my web site (and link to them). That way they won't take up anyone's N54 space, but everyone can see them. Just a thought...<br /><br />Richard (richard@richardarmstrong.ca).

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Jerry Spillman</b><p><H1><Center> Bruce Dorkind's Type Cards </Center></H1><br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125866073.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125866047.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125866028.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125866001.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125865603.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125866096.JPG">

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>Here are a few:<br /><br />Allegheny Frank Selee (set of 103 players, each believed to be unique)<br />S.R. Church Rube Waddell (only one from this set I've ever heard of)<br />Imperial Chocolate of Ruth & Hornsby (a Speaker also exists. I've never heard of a second example of either card)<br />1982 Korean card of Tom Seaver (I've never heard of another).<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125871811.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125871841.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125872088.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125871901.JPG"> <br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125872136.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125871943.JPG">

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>Beautiful cards...Let's see some more.

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Wesley</b><p>Great cards! Which ones above belong to Bruce Dorkind? The Boston Garters?

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Craig Lipman</b><p>Wes,<br />Dorskind's are the Just So , the 4B hits, the Monarch and the Garters.<br />Now lets see something from the Wes collection. The way you people are accumulating wealth you ought to have something good to share.<br /><br />If you take different back types into account the recently discovered E121 Herpolsheimer's uncatalouged should be in the mix as far as rarity. Although not rare in the sense of the T231s (with only one copy total)the individual players are rare with only one known of each to exist.<br />Here is a scan of one of mine<br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125885430.JPG">

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Craig Lipman</b><p>whoops I forgot the front; sorry I'm a newbie with the whole posting thing.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125885772.JPG">

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>Just one set, as far as anybody knows. Nicew cardsa, too. Full-length portraits on a white background.

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>Here is my meager contribution to this topic; a Gypsy Queen Large (well, medium since it has been trimmed) and an uncatalogued 1928 Star Player Candy card of Buddy Myer. I also have a BF 104 of Mickey Cochrane and a Cameo Pepsin pin of John Pappaulan. The last two are probably not as hard to find as the first two, but then again, maybe they are.<img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125895295.JPG">

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>from 1917<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/taslegal54/17fmschalk.jpg">

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>zach</b><p>well not nearly as rare as anything posted so far here is my rarest "type card". T209 color <br /><a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img344.imageshack.us/img344/362/t209crockett9ko.jpg" border="0" width="204" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p><img src="http://www.geocities.com/rhettmatthew_37/youngcameopepsin.JPG"><br /><img src="http://www.geocities.com/rhettmatthew_37/pepsinhoy.JPG"><br /><img src="http://www.geocities.com/rhettmatthew_37/pepsinhutch.JPG"><br /><img src="http://www.geocities.com/rhettmatthew_37/hughey.JPG"><br /><img src="http://www.geocities.com/rhettmatthew_37/killen.JPG"><br /><img src="http://www.geocities.com/rhettmatthew_37/mainscameopepsin.JPG">

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>Rare<br /><img src="http://www.botn.com/images/wagnerunc.jpg"><br /><br />Sort of rare-E105 Cobb<br /><img src="http://www.botn.com/images/cobbe105.jpg"><br /><br />

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Nick</b><p>It would be interesting to try to determine how many of the rare cards from certain sets (such as the 1933 U.S. Caramel Fred Lindstrom) exist.<br /><br />Certain back varieties from T-206, as well as some overprints, would also qualify in this category.<br /><br />Nick

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Greg Martin</b><p><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125924060.JPG">

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Thanks for rubbing in the Wagner <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> That's a great card...had I had more disposable income that evening he would have been mine....you rat....

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>1949 Japanese Bromide Lefty O'Doul:<br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125928000.JPG"> <br /><br />Pinkerton Scorecards of Tinker and Wagner, neither catalogued until recently:<br /><br /> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125928077.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125928096.JPG"> <br /><br />N174 George Godfrey<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1125928218.JPG"> <br /><br />

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Harry Wallace (HW)</b><p>Bruce,<br /><br />The auction house that I think that you are referring to is Goober's out of the San Francisco area. It was run by a gentleman named Steve Price.<br /><br />Three other auction houses that I would add to your catalog list would be Superior Galleries (the one out of Beverly Hills, I assume you were referencing the Collector's Universe auction house); Ron Oser; and Guernsey's.<br /><br />And since you are going all of the way back to 1975, most all of the early auctions were run out of the pages of The Trader Speaks are Sports Collectors Digest. Lots of rare stuff in the early The Trader Speaks Auctions by guys like Richard Egan, Bill Heitman, Bill Haber, George Lyons, etc.

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>bruce dorskind</b><p><br /><br />Goobers is the auction house- I do have copies of auctions by Heitman, Mike Berkus,<br />Jim Nowell (regional king) and a number of other old old time collectors.<br /><br />Thanks for the input.<br /><br /><br />Bruce

How Rare Is Rare?
 

Posted By: <b>Bruce Babcock</b><p><img src="http://homepage.mac.com/thurber51/.Pictures/19th%20cabs/Beaneater.JPG"><br /><br />Only a dozen or so subjects known, and as far as I know, only one example of each subject.