OT - Dennis Eckersley vs Walter Payton

[Rhotchkiss]

Two Hall of Fame, PSA 10, 1976 rookies - Dennis Eckersley (baseball) and Walter Payton (football). Estimate on the Eckersley is $80k, double the estimate on the Payton ($40k).

Personally, I wouldn’t spend 10% of either estimate - I just don’t see the merits of paying so much for a mass-produced and extremely common 1976 card, just bc it sits in a 10 flip. But if I had to buy one, I go with Payton all day every day.

Thoughts on why Dennis Eckersley is estimated to be worth “Sweetness” (indisputably one of the best all time)?

[jayshum]

I think the main reason is there are a lot more people collecting baseball cards than football cards so prices for baseball are just higher in general due to higher demand.

[GeoPoto]

The pop report says 9 Eckersley and 55 Payton. Supply might have something to do with it.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

The pop report says 9 Eckersley and 55 Payton. Supply might have something to do with it.

I can't believe I'm using the term "pop report". Ugh. But that was my first thought and it appears to be confirmed.

[OhioLawyerF5]

If Walter Payton displayed his armpits prominantly, his card might be worth more.

But seriously, in addition to the pop report, there are also many more passionate PSA registry collectors in baseball. The registry is by far the main reason 10s of these cards go for these astronomical prices compared to 9s.

[calvindog]

Registry, period. Low pop, higher price to get that card for a popular Registry set. 161 Registry sets for the 1976 Topps baseball set compared to 69 for the 1976 Topps football set.

[LEHR]

People should always collect what and how they want but I find these numbers ridiculous. Cut out the PSA Registry and IMO these cards won't bring half the amount they would today. I love high end cards, but the Registry is a drug for some people and I used to be caught up in that madness myself. The last 10's I bought were 1972 Topps hockey commons for less than $40 each. At that price point I'll still spring for the 10 even if 99% of the time they don't look any different than the 9's I have because I know the resale value will be there. On big dollar cards like the Eck and Payton, give me a nice 8 of each and I'll save 97% of that PSA 10 money for something else.

But like I said, collect what you want. Just as I look at people buying these high-end 10's as crazy, I'm sure there are people looking at me as crazy for buying slabbed cards at all.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by LEHR

Cut out the PSA Registry and IMO these cards won't bring half the amount they would today.

For these particular cards, I think you could reduce that percentage even more drastically. Without a TPG to submit to, what sort of a comparable pittance would these (rightly) bring?

[Brent G.]

I picked up an SGC 5 of Walter at a show a while back for $220 and I'm perfectly happy with that.

I played football in college, worked for its national governing body, had NFL season tickets for 15 years ... but I collect a helluva lot more baseball, probably 20-1. It's just a deeper history.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Welcome to the world of the Registry and Pop Report. As I like to say, the flip is the commodity.

[Bigdaddy]

Baseball > Football

With that said, given a choice between the two, I'd take Sweetness every time.

[packs]

Rickey Henderson is an all time great and near the list of greatest living players, but his rookie card in a PSA 10 is one of the most expensive modern rookies there is, and definitely the king of junk wax, because it's so hard to find in a 10.

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by packs

Rickey Henderson is an all time great and near the list of greatest living players, but his rookie card in a PSA 10 is one of the most expensive modern rookies there is, and definitely the king of junk wax, because it's so hard to find in a 10.

I don’t think 1980 is considered modern or junk wax

I have a shirt that says so

[Brent G.]

That is an interesting discussion -- I always thought of 1986 as the start of junk wax. Just seemed that's when tons of mini worthless sets flooded the marketplace and the presses were wide open.

[packs]

I always thought of it as 1980 forward but I guess there are different opinions. My only point was that there are millions and millions of Henderson rookies just like there are a ton of 1983 Wade Boggs rookies but a Henderson in a 10 is I think more expensive than any other card like that until you get to more modern serial numbered cards.

[BioCRN]

Some people start junk wax in the mid-70s. We know they really started running the presses in 1975+. Some specifically go 1977+ because of expanded print runs compared to pre-1977.

Some people start in 1981 when Fleer/Donruss entered the market.

Some 1986-88 because of the obvious insanity of print runs.

It's like trying to define a pre-war RC. There's a whole mix of opinions about whether regional issues count and how large the regional issue has to be...or if they should even be counted at all. Should exhibits count? Should issues that are card-like, but not traditional cards (Batter Up cards, Fan Craze cards, etc) count?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I always thought of it as 1980 forward but I guess there are different opinions. My only point was that there are millions and millions of Henderson rookies just like there are a ton of 1983 Wade Boggs rookies but a Henderson in a 10 is I think more expensive than any other card like that until you get to more modern serial numbered cards.

Every time I see a Henderson 10, I wonder if you took all of them, cracked them out and resubmitted, how many would actually 10? Even better, if you mixed them in with an equal number of nice 9s, would there be any correlation at all with the new results?

[D. Bergin]

I guess we'll see what they actually sell for in the end. Have a hard time believing Eckersley goes for double the Walter Payton card, regardless of the registry.

Payton may have lost some luster as Running Backs have become marginalized in the last decade or so, and others have broken his records....but that has been a highly respected and sought after card for decades. You could argue it's "THE" football card of the 70's.

Eckersley? Interesting career, nice pitcher. You can't possibly tell me more people are collecting Dennis Eckersley than are collecting Walter Payton. Don't care if baseball card collecting is more "popular" than Football card collecting or not.

Am I correct in assuming the Eckersley is also a much older slab/grade?

If so, might just be a modern day 9, hiding in a older 10 holder.

I wonder if people who are willing to pay high 5 figures for an Eckersley Rookie, take this into account. I could fill up 5 storage rooms full of cool older stuff for that type of money, so I'm obviously not the demographic for something like this.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I guess we'll see what they actually sell for in the end. Have a hard time believing Eckersley goes for double the Walter Payton card, regardless of the registry.

Payton may have lost some luster as Running Backs have become marginalized in the last decade or so, and others have broken his records....but that has been a highly respected and sought after card for decades. You could argue it's "THE" football card of the 70's.

Eckersley? Interesting career, nice pitcher. You can't possibly tell me more people are collecting Dennis Eckersley than are collecting Walter Payton. Don't care if baseball card collecting is more "popular" than Football card collecting or not.

Am I correct in assuming the Eckersley is also a much older slab/grade?

If so, might just be a modern day 9, hiding in a older 10 holder.

I wonder if people who are willing to pay high 5 figures for an Eckersley Rookie, take this into account. I could fill up 5 storage rooms full of cool older stuff for that type of money, so I'm obviously not the demographic for something like this.

Again, it's the set registry and the pop. It's irrelevant if it's really a 10 or not, it's labeled a 10. HOF RC is probably in different registry sets too. Not even close to a football card.

There are only 9 Eck 10s, and 55 Payton 10s. 2 to 1 might be understating the gap in prices.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Every time I see a Henderson 10, I wonder if you took all of them, cracked them out and resubmitted, how many would actually 10? Even better, if you mixed them in with an equal number of nice 9s, would there be any correlation at all with the new results?

I've never seen "10" used as a verb. I almosed 2ed myself.

[packs]

Is it worse to 2 yourself or end up with a 1.5.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Again, it's the set registry and the pop. It's irrelevant if it's really a 10 or not, it's labeled a 10. HOF RC is probably in different registry sets too. Not even close to a football card.

There are only 9 Eck 10s, and 55 Payton 10s. 2 to 1 might be understating the gap in prices.

I understand, but it still seems silly to me. Their standings within their respective sports are miles apart.

Aren't there Football HOF RC pop collectors? We're not talking Bowling, or Lawn Darts here. It's still NFL Football. We've had Tom Brady cards sell for over a Mill.

To me, it's like comparing a low pop Waite Hoyt to a higher pop Lou Gehrig in the same condition.

There should still be much more demand for the Gehrig.

Anyways, my three cents.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by packs

Is it worse to 2 yourself or end up with a 1.5.

I think a 1.5 would be much worse, even though it's lower on the Richter Scale.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I understand, but it still seems silly to me. Their standings within their respective sports are miles apart.

Aren't there Football HOF RC pop collectors? We're not talking Bowling, or Lawn Darts here. It's still NFL Football. We've had Tom Brady cards sell for over a Mill.

To me, it's like comparing a low pop Waite Hoyt to a higher pop Lou Gehrig in the same condition.

There should still be much more demand for the Gehrig.

Anyways, my three cents.

There are common cards in PSA 10 that would outsell that Payton. Comparing players is missing the point of how these registry guys think. Yes, it seems silly to me too. But it doesn't matter. That's how it is. As long as people can show off their collections, there will be people competing to have a better one than the next guy.

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

There are common cards in PSA 10 that would outsell that Payton. Comparing players is missing the point of how these registry guys think. Yes, it seems silly to me to. But it doesn't matter. That's how it is. As long as people can show off their collections, there will be people competing to have a better one than the next guy.

I'm not a high-end collector, but my most valuable card is in an SGC slab -- I love the way it looks in it compared to PSA. But clearly, when it's time to sell someday, I should spend the $ to put it in a PSA slab to take advantage of this silliness. I know ... not vintage, but to many of us who grew up in the '80s, it's our '52 Mantle.

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

There are common cards in PSA 10 that would outsell that Payton. Comparing players is missing the point of how these registry guys think. Yes, it seems silly to me too. But it doesn't matter. That's how it is. As long as people can show off their collections, there will be people competing to have a better one than the next guy.

Rarity that's not specific to a card as printed breeds craziness.

The 1987 Topps Ricky Wright autograph market is peak insanity just to check off a box for the collection.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

There are common cards in PSA 10 that would outsell that Payton. Comparing players is missing the point of how these registry guys think. Yes, it seems silly to me too. But it doesn't matter. That's how it is. As long as people can show off their collections, there will be people competing to have a better one than the next guy.

Are there common cards from base sets in the 1970's that would outsell that Payton?

Not trying to be a wise-ass. Just curious.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

There are common cards in PSA 10 that would outsell that Payton. Comparing players is missing the point of how these registry guys think. Yes, it seems silly to me too. But it doesn't matter. That's how it is. As long as people can show off their collections, there will be people competing to have a better one than the next guy.

Early in the days of the registry, some of the commons from sets like 52 Topps that are almost always off center were selling for staggering sums even in 8. Whether those cards were really 8s, gifts, or made to order is another question.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Are there common cards from base sets in the 1970's that would outsell that Payton?



Not trying to be a wise-ass. Just curious.

For sure. I can think of a couple 1986 Fleer basketball commons that sell for 5 figures in PSA 10, and that's junk wax era. It's nuts what low pop PSA 10s go for.

[ejharrington]

Baseball is king.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

Baseball is king.

Low pop PSA 10 is king.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

For sure. I can think of a couple 1986 Fleer basketball commons that sell for 5 figures in PSA 10, and that's junk wax era. It's nuts what low pop PSA 10s go for.

https://www.psacard.com/auctionprice...es/299597#g=10

Note the pandemic prices.

[Brent G.]

Holy shit …

[Rhotchkiss]

Thanks for the great discussion. I get the registry and I didn’t know there were so few Eck 10’s, so I guess that explains it (and baseball bearing football to a lesser degree) bc Walter Payton absolutely destroys Dennis Eckersley in every way

[JollyElm]

It is one of Newton's Fundamental Laws of Collecting:
PV ≠ CV

Player Value does not equate to Card Value.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Thanks for the great discussion. I get the registry and I didn’t know there were so few Eck 10’s, so I guess that explains it (and baseball bearing football to a lesser degree) bc Walter Payton absolutely destroys Dennis Eckersley in every way

Simple as that. Far more Paytons than Ecks, but far more people who need Eck for their sets than need Payton.