Babe Ruth 1934 Tour of Japan Card

[bjacky]

I am looking for some information / thoughts on a Babe Ruth card I bought off Ebay about 5 years ago, but also what may be more important is a better understanding of print methods of cards to better identify fake cards.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp...on/r1123823196 (This is the exact same card I have that is for sale on a Japanese auction site I found with Google lens when trying to search this card, so it has a sister)

I know the photo was taken in the 1934 tour of Japan. I have seen photographs of this image certified by PSA they certify that it could only have come from the original negative though printed at probably a later date. However, this is not a photograph on photograph paper, this is like a card printed on harder cardboard card-like paper.

My original assumption is this is a menko / bromide Japanese card. However, from what I understand, there has never been official recognition of this card as part of the tour of japan set. The card is 5 x 6 cm.

This isn't a photograph with sephia die. There are specific print dots on the photo in red / yellow and black. It is the same print dots you would see on cards from the 40s to 80s. (I don't know much about print dots pre 40s)

In about 2.5 mm of the picture you have a length of about 5 - 6 print dots.

The colors could infer that it was printed at a later time past 1934, but I still don't grasp how they did color cards in the 30s and the type of print dots you would see in that time-frame, so I still don't rule out it wasn't printed in the 1930s as well. However, I also don't know if they had the technology to create print dots that small at that time.

Upclose, it looks like the colors red and yellow are splotched in the more concentrated areas which suggests this was a mechanized process and not a computerized process and seems that it could only have been generated with the use of a print plate and access to the original negative.

Despite the smaller size of this image, the detail indicates access to the original negative was needed to put in the specific details, including the AMERICA on the sleeve. I don't know the origins and rights to the original negative photo.

The card on the Japanese auction site claims it is somewhat bigger, but they may not have really measured it and just guessed and it looks about the same size as mine. It has the same color tones as mine and what appears to be the same type of cardboard like paper. It makes me believe that it was a card that was originally printed and produced in Japan.

Anyone with thoughts and insights on Bromeide Menko cards / rights or information to some of the photos on the tour in Japan / or thoughts or information on the printing type is helpful.

Obviously, I am rooting for it not to be a fake but I think this process and investigating has been helpful for me to also know how to spot fakes in the future as well, especially older cards. But I also understand that someone may have been trying to fake a sephia potrait with more modern technology.

I think I have a good grasp on fake 60s, 70s, 80s cards but this one is outside my expertise trying to piece together the kind of technology they had in the 30s or even a bit later as it still have been printed later with the original negative. It is also tricky because if it is possibly Japanese, trying to piece together what technology was used in printing their cards and if using the print method and black yellow and red was a thing.

If anyone has older Bromeide / Menko cards with portraits and could give input on what their print dots look like that would be helpful.

If anyone has information on what entities could own the original negatives that would helpful as well. I already tried baseball hall of fame museum and they say they don't have that picture in their archives.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp...on/r1123823196

[Hankphenom]

Just my opinion, but I'd guess this to be of very recent construction, perhaps using a sepia image from the photogravure newspaper sections common to the time of the tour or some other source. I wouldn't think it has any value at all.

[Lucas00]

Clear modern fantasy piece. Stay far away.

[JustinD]

Yeah, that’s a no. As mentioned it’s most certainly not a legitimate issue.

The listing title is - “ Showa 9 Japan-U.S. Baseball Bromide Babe Ruth babe ruth (検) Menko Face Menco Shigeo Nagashima Sadaharu O BBM Bundle Confectionery Shohei Otani No Sign”

That pile of jibberish key words simply means nothing. Other than Showa 9 is the year 1934. As it basically claims to be nothing specific it’s likely even skirting the strong Japanese counterfeiting laws.

Also a true bromide card is a photograph not a printed card. A bromide should have no print dots, it should be a photo developed from a negative on photographic paper. All of the known 1934 Japanese tour cards I know of are true bromides.

[sbfinley]

I agree with others, it's almost assuredly a fantasy piece. I doubled checked in Gary Engle's book and the only two issues released concerning the Tour of Japan are both bromides. One is 1 13/16” x 2 9/16 and features the player's name and position written in Japanese on the front. The other is postcard sized and had Ruth's facismile signature on the front.

As for print characteristics, I'm far from an expert, but as someone else mentioned - Bromides are more photo like and were released on photo paper or thin stock. I've attached one of mine for reference.

[glchen]

The image looks like it's from the JBR166. However, the picture quality isn't close, so I'm also skeptical of the authenticity of this.

[Hankphenom]

Don't think I've heard that term before.

[prestigecollectibles]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Don't think I've heard that term before.

Here you go
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromid...anese_culture)

[prestigecollectibles]

That seller often has sketchy items. That could be cut from something or just a fantasy piece. If it was real it would've been bought already.

[Leon]

[/B]

Originally Posted by glchen

The image looks like it's from the JBR166. However, the picture quality isn't close, so I'm also skeptical of the authenticity of this.

What a great postcard!!
.

[bjacky]

Yes, this is what I reference too in my post. I have seen this with a letter of authenticity from PSA saying the picture is most-likely from the original negative but printed at a later time like around the 70s, so the card could be the same scenario, an authorized re-print which should hold the same value as the photos.

[bigfanNY]

Originally Posted by bjacky

Yes, this is what I reference too in my post. I have seen this with a letter of authenticity from PSA saying the picture is most-likely from the original negative but printed at a later time like around the 70s, so the card could be the same scenario, an authorized re-print which should hold the same value as the photos.

NO, you are not listening to what others have said.this is not I repeat N O T from the original negative. So it would NOT hold the same value as the photo.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by prestigecollectibles

That seller often has sketchy items. That could be cut from something or just a fantasy piece. If it was real it would've been bought already.

That is the definitive answer from the go-to guy. No need to look further.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by prestigecollectibles

That seller often has sketchy items. That could be cut from something or just a fantasy piece. If it was real it would've been bought already.

Have saved myself a lot of money and aggravation over the years with that logic. Lots of eyes on all of this stuff. Particularly Ruth. If something is gathering dust in the corner its for a reason.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Have saved myself a lot of money and aggravation over the years with that logic. Lots of eyes on all of this stuff. Particularly Ruth. If something is gathering dust in the corner its for a reason.

+1. A real great item, at a good price, won't last long.
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