Saturday national

[sflayank]

Mobbed of course
The back room probably 80% modern cards selling t at crazy prices for people I never heard of...it is a fascinating phenomenon
Set building of vintage us the strongest I've seen in 30 years
Commons in ex selling for 3x "book"
As several people mentioned on my Friday post
Regionals.....I saw less than 5 sugardales,esskays, hunters, 1 triple plak, 5 punchouts, not 1 pro pizza
And define 0 of the really weird stuff I collect
1 1955 armour coin set which i bought and NO other 1955s....amazing
1948 to 1975 and shiny cards probably make up 99.9 % of inventory there

[Jewish-collector]

I noticed that too. The National has evolved into the shiny stuff, trade nights, etc,... There's very little vintage oddball stuff, programs, publications, memorabilia, pennants, equipment, etc,...

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

I noticed that too. The National has evolved into the shiny stuff, trade nights, etc,... There's very little vintage oddball stuff, programs, publications, memorabilia, pennants, equipment, etc,...

It’s no longer our hobby. COVID changed everything.

[Baseballcrazy62]

Who is “our” in relation to the “hobby”? Collect what you want to collect and others will collect what they want to collect. Seems pretty simple to me.

[Snapolit1]

I have the same feeling every year when I don’t go.

50% of me hears about all the problems and lines etc and thanks god I didn’t go.

50% of me thinks I am a lazy jackass for not going because I love looking and talking with people about rare cards and memorabilia. Always a battle.

Bottom line for me this year is I have been traveling for business and jumping on a plane this weekend to Cleveland even for a short flight wasn’t doing.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Don't ever feel too bad about not attending. I find that I'm happier if I don't and more frustrated if I do. I'm never there for the social aspect, although I do tend to chat with longtime friends and collegaues. We socialize enough via other means that it isn't a big loss not doing so face-to-face.

[Snapolit1]

Bottom line is it’s a terrible place to get any kind of deal. So if the social part isn’t that important to you, definitely not worth the aggravation.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Yes, that's certainly been my experience since about 2010. It used to be a different story, and I sure hope it changes, but with subletting no longer allowed, I feel the opportunities for fresh discoveries at tolerable prices will be a nonexistent factor.

From 2009 onward, I kept attending and finding nothing, but saying, "Maybe THIS year will be different," but it never was. After a nightmarish and disastrous 2018 National road trip which came accompanied by the usual slop bucket at the end of a fading rainbow, I bid farewell. I hope for brighter days, and receiving some exciting phone calls saying, "You've gotta get here NOW!". Hey, it could happen.

[BioCRN]

The shiny stuff is enduring in the face of extreme cost.

A box of 2024 Topps Chrome at release time cost just under $2 **per card** in the pack. We know breaking modern stuff is gambling, but that is the current buy-in.

That said, there's no shortage of buyers and the post-COVID, enduring-inflation (though slowing), etc reality we're in hasn't killed the spending spirit even with the cost getting more and the odds for "hits" getting worse.

I would have thought that fan base would be one of the first to jump ship from the hobby once the world opened up again. I seem to be wrong.

[ullmandds]

has the hobby broadened to the point that most vintage is being held in collections and just not sold????

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

has the hobby broadened to the point that most vintage is being held in collections and just not sold????

Dunno if it's enough to impact the hobby, but there's got to be more new people beginning or expanding their "forever collections" that will hold until they possibly upgrade or the market makes it worth it to sell.

I've been working on my various graded collections since the late 1990s, and I'm sure there's a few cards in my collection that some would be excited to have as part of their collection even if they're not amongst the hottest collectable names.

Often it's harder to add an uncommon issue common card than a star from the same set. I've noticed a lot more of those kinds of cards getting snapped up quickly the past 2-3 years rather than sitting around for sale lingering for months/years. I doubt a lot of these collectors are set collectors, more likely type or team collectors...which I've seen a lot of both pop up recently.

[oldjudge]

For those who have attended, is there much in the way of pre-1900 cards?

[bbcard1]

The National is a fun place to look, but not aways a great place to buy.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

For those who have attended, is there much in the way of pre-1900 cards?

Scott and Richard’s table.

[jingram058]

I myself don't give a crap about any card made after 1984. That's the Topps Mattingly rc year. I don't care how valuable you say it is. Don't care to go to card shows anymore. The days of getting a 1958 Mantle for $75, or 1933 Goudey Ruth and Gehrig both for $500, are long since gone. I don't call it a hobby when I basically have to take out a mortgage to buy a card.

[7nohitter]

Perfect!

I am a VIP at the Nationals.
Flipped so much 2018 -2020 Chrome.
I spent a ton of time with the other VIP's in the VIP lounge, where the REAL deals happened. Traded '33 Goudey's all night.
This was for us, the VIP's, only.

[Fall1963]

I like to just blend in with the crowd and do my gawking and a few purchases. I went Wednesday and Thursday. Yes tons of people, but that is better than a dying or apathetic hobby. They did have another huge space to the North, where I'm sure the dealers loaded back and forth. This perhaps might have been a good place to put food and tables, but it would also be a long walk to those by the autographs, and they may have had to spend more money to rent it out. Just a thought. Another, is perhaps open up one of the restrooms for men only, since it made up 80-85% of the attendance. Again, just a thought. Health permitting, I'm already excited about Chicago next year. Working on some Goudey sets from the 30's. Enjoy reading and following here. Take care.

[7nohitter]

The recap of a non VIP. Typical.
I am VIP. I traded '33 Goudeys all day.

If your not VIP go to Shitilly, VA or some other mall show.

VIP here!

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I have the same feeling every year when I don’t go.

50% of me hears about all the problems and lines etc and thanks god I didn’t go.

50% of me thinks I am a lazy jackass for not going because I love looking and talking with people about rare cards and memorabilia. Always a battle.

Bottom line for me this year is I have been traveling for business and jumping on a plane this weekend to Cleveland even for a short flight wasn’t doing.

And it wasn't a great week to travel...at least not on Delta. Looking forward to the East Coast National in a couple weeks.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

The recap of a non VIP. Typical.
I am VIP. I traded '33 Goudeys all day.

If your not VIP go to Shitilly, VA or some other mall show.

VIP here!

For the uninitiated, how do you become a VIP at the National? Do you just pay more to get in?

[BRoberts]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I myself don't give a crap about any card made after 1984. That's the Topps Mattingly rc year. I don't care how valuable you say it is. Don't care to go to card shows anymore. The days of getting a 1958 Mantle for $75, or 1933 Goudey Ruth and Gehrig both for $500, are long since gone. I don't call it a hobby when I basically have to take out a mortgage to buy a card.

At least you’ve got your good attitude. You can’t put a price on that.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by BRoberts

At least you’ve got your good attitude. You can’t put a price on that.

Yah but he's not a VIP.

He's never traded 33 Goudey's all day in the VIP lounge, with the other 3 VIPs, who were dumb enough to pay extra.

Non-VIP here!

[darkhorse9]

For me, the only reason I go to the National is when I'm looking for a large quantity of mostly common cards. My big task this year was to make a huge dent in my 1961-1963 Post cereal sets. I did that, picking up about 200 cards total

The way I see it, if I tried buying that many off eBay I'd probably be spending over $700 total in shipping by buying them one by one. At the show I not only save shipping, but I can actually hold them in my hand and, often, get a deal for volume.

If I'm just looking for stars or single vintage cards I'll save myself the 7 hour drive.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Bottom line is it’s a terrible place to get any kind of deal. So if the social part isn’t that important to you, definitely not worth the aggravation.

I only go for the social aspect as I get to sit next to and talk to people I've known for years. I didn't buy or sell anything . I had a lot of fun and am going home tomorrow morning.
.

[the-illini]

IMO the National has been great - best sales I have ever had.

[Bobbycee]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

The recap of a non VIP. Typical.
I am VIP. I traded '33 Goudeys all day.

If your not VIP go to Shitilly, VA or some other mall show.

VIP here!

Are you kidding me? You sound like n SNL skit. " Hey everyone, I'm a VIP & you're not! I'm important. " We're lucky to breathe your spent air . Can't wait to hear what you have to say about Sundays show..

[babraham]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

Perfect!

I am a VIP at the Nationals.
Flipped so much 2018 -2020 Chrome.
I spent a ton of time with the other VIP's in the VIP lounge, where the REAL deals happened. Traded '33 Goudey's all night.
This was for us, the VIP's, only.

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

The recap of a non VIP. Typical.
I am VIP. I traded '33 Goudeys all day.

If your not VIP go to Shitilly, VA or some other mall show.

VIP here!

Sorry, this made me LOL.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

It always kills me when people say there are no deals and bitch about the lack of vintage (meaning pre war in this case) I get to walk around VERY little and I always see at least a handful of things that are interesting to me at a good price, and a number of other things that are not anything I really care about but the price makes me interested.

I'm still convinced that many of the posters who apparently think the National is a waste of time are from NJ and aren't happy unless they're complaining about something, yet they'd never not go and deprive themselves of the chance to complain.

EDIT: I'm from NJ.

[refz]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I myself don't give a crap about any card made after 1984. That's the Topps Mattingly rc year. I don't care how valuable you say it is. Don't care to go to card shows anymore. The days of getting a 1958 Mantle for $75, or 1933 Goudey Ruth and Gehrig both for $500, are long since gone. I don't call it a hobby when I basically have to take out a mortgage to buy a card.

Or get cards financed I see banners now supporting this..,ridiculous. If it’s not in my means , I simply will not get it. I can certainly try though 😀

[Snapolit1]

What you find at the National or any other show of interest and whether deals can be made is affected a great deal by the breath of your collection. Some people collect a lot of everything. In that case the National is great. If you are looking for commons of 48 Leafs and 52 Topps, probably will have a blast. If you are looking for a deal on higher end stuff that is more specific, let's say for example a signed Babe Ruth Type 1 photo of a Cobb postcard, you are likely not going to come home with something.

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

It always kills me when people say there are no deals and bitch about the lack of vintage (meaning pre war in this case) I get to walk around VERY little and I always see at least a handful of things that are interesting to me at a good price, and a number of other things that are not anything I really care about but the price makes me interested.

I'm still convinced that many of the posters who apparently think the National is a waste of time are from NJ and aren't happy unless they're complaining about something, yet they'd never not go and deprive themselves of the chance to complain.

EDIT: I'm from NJ.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

What you find at the National or any other show of interest and whether deals can be made is affected a great deal by the breath of your collection. Some people collect a lot of everything. In that case the National is great. If you are looking for commons of 48 Leafs and 52 Topps, probably will have a blast. If you are looking for a deal on higher end stuff that is more specific, let's say for example a signed Babe Ruth Type 1 photo of a Cobb postcard, you are likely not going to come home with something.

Thanks for the tip. If I can get my collection breathing again, I may attend the National next year.

[bigfish]

[QUOTE=Snapolit1;2450656]What you find at the National or any other show of interest and whether deals can be made is affected a great deal by the breath of your collection. Some people collect a lot of everything. In that case the National is great. If you are looking for commons of 48 Leafs and 52 Topps, probably will have a blast. If you are looking for a deal on higher end stuff that is more specific, let's say for example a signed Babe Ruth Type 1 photo of a Cobb postcard, you are likely not going to come home with something.[/QUOTE

Not sure I agree with this logic. I was at the show from Tuesday to Saturday. Had a great time each day. Bought some tougher to find pre war cards for a decent price. Interacted with a bunch of great people. Talked to a bunch of great people I usually see in person once a year. I think this show and any show is what you make it.

It def is much easier sitting at home in a dark room eating a tv dinner and watching the ball game. I do think 90 percent of the people that goes to this show has a great time and comes home with something they can add for their collection. There’s alway that 10 percent

I am looking forward to next year.

[Leon]

The 2nd day here I bought a great card from our BST. It made my show, as far as cards go!

The new Convention show promoters adjusted quickly to the car traffic. Much better than the first 2 days.


.

[JasonB24]

My wife and I returned home today from our first National and we had a great time. To me the complaints are very first world, you're going to the National and should have a good idea of what it is like in today's day and age, prepare for it. We all know prices were going to be high but all the booths I went to were willing to negotiate. And a big boo hoo to those complaining about a 15-20 minute uber/drive to the show or restaurants. How many of those people have a longer commute to work everyday? C'mon give me a break. As someone in a wheelchair I will gladly take the spaciousness at the I-X center over the convenience of being able to walk around like I've heard about Chicago.

[Ray Van]

Not sure what Cleveland National some of you guys went to ... the one I went to seemed to have T206's at every second table and dozens upon dozens of vendors selling other prewar. Also lots of cool memorabilia: Type 1 photos, old uniforms, bobbleheads, pennants, and everything in between. Sure there were lots of tables with shiny new stuff, but those tables were mobbed as well so there are buyers for pretty much everything - and one day some of these buyers will come on over to vintage which can only strengthen the hobby. Saw lots of kids and (shocker!) even some women walking around. Parking/wifi/food concessions/washroom issues aside, I thought it was pretty well run and I came away with a few new additions to my collection (some Colgans and my first Helmar), plus I met Graig Kreindler so it was an awesome show for me.

[Republicaninmass]

Sadly, many of the modern collectors will flee once the cards start falling in price and will chase the next shiny object.. if we are lucky, they will come back to the hobby in another 20 prn30 years. Hence the cycle. Same I saw happen in the 80s to 90s and some people just came back during Covid.


As bigfish wrote, the National is more about meeting the collectors and dealers than finding some "score". Most of those are bought up and marked up before the show opens Wednesday. Sometimes an extreme rarity pops up and someone is lucky to grab it.

However, with the advent of ebay and the new "flippers" cards aren't even In sellers hands yet and they are already listed. It would be tough to find a card at the national which was not listed in ebay/Facebook even minutes prior.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Thanks for the tip. If I can get my collection breathing again, I may attend the National next year.

Mine is on 24 hour oxygen.

[jimtodd]

Originally Posted by Ray Van

Not sure what Cleveland National some of you guys went to ... the one I went to seemed to have T206's at every second table and dozens upon dozens of vendors selling other prewar. Also lots of cool memorabilia: Type 1 photos, old uniforms, bobbleheads, pennants, and everything in between. Sure there were lots of tables with shiny new stuff, but those tables were mobbed as well so there are buyers for pretty much everything - and one day some of these buyers will come on over to vintage which can only strengthen the hobby. Saw lots of kids and (shocker!) even some women walking around. Parking/wifi/food concessions/washroom issues aside, I thought it was pretty well run and I came away with a few new additions to my collection (some Colgans and my first Helmar), plus I met Graig Kreindler so it was an awesome show for me.

I completely agree Ray. Had a great time and saw a ton of vintage and more pre-war than I expected. Maybe it was my off-peak timing, but I didn't have issues w the bathroom or food. I would have loved to meet Graig - love his art.

[Leon]

A little while ago I saw Graig at the airport. We stepped aside and probably spoke for 20+ minutes. It's been many years since we were able to do that. If I were at home that wouldn't have happened.
And yes, there was more prewar in the room, exponentially, than the other 3 largest shows put together.
.

[T206HOFOnly]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Scott and Richard’s table.

Do you know if they have a website and/or Instagram? Thx!

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by the-illini

IMO the National has been great - best sales I have ever had.

That's awesome Chris! Great to hear

[Yoda]

I understand a new-to-the-hobby photo of Yaz holding a rare, hybrid Dutch tulip went for big bucks.

[philliesfan]

Mobbed of course
The back room probably 80% modern cards selling t at crazy prices for people I never heard of...it is a fascinating phenomenon
Set building of vintage us the strongest I've seen in 30 years
Commons in ex selling for 3x "book"
As several people mentioned on my Friday post
Regionals.....I saw less than 5 sugardales,esskays, hunters, 1 triple plak, 5 punchouts, not 1 pro pizza
And define 0 of the really weird stuff I collect
1 1955 armour coin set which i bought and NO other 1955s....amazing
1948 to 1975 and shiny cards probably make up 99.9 % of inventory there


Maybe the "book" is old that you are using and the 3x book is the new correct book amount?

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Leon

And yes, there was more prewar in the room, exponentially, than the other 3 largest shows put together.

But at what cost? I don't have thousands upon thousands of deep pockets disposable play money dollars. The only people I know making these kinds of pickups are on this forum and Blowout, etc. I'm not boo-hooing, and I'm not jealous. I just don't have that kind of money laying around. The stuff I have that commands that kind of money today I got years, decades, ago when I could spend my Navy pay or reenlistment bonus money and not have to worry about it. Yesterday I got a nice handful of beater grade 1954, 1959, 1961 and 1965 Topps cards (stars, HoFers) for all of $34 and change. Now that's a hobby, and it was fun!

[jethrod3]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Bottom line is it’s a terrible place to get any kind of deal. So if the social part isn’t that important to you, definitely not worth the aggravation.

Maybe that's the case if you are buying a rare card or a card that is in high demand. However, I had no problem getting fair deals for the major purchases that I made, which were mid-grade 1955 Topps baseball star cards and the Terry Bradshaw rookie (PSA 5). I got these from a couple of dealers that had a lot of vintage stuff that I felt was more or less priced fairly once you expressed interest in them. That is, they had stickers on them that priced them a bit higher than recent eBay sales, but in the end I got them for probably slightly less than the going rate on eBay (and I didn't have to pay for shipping!!). I'm sure that the dealers that sold to me got what they needed to get out of those sales, and I didn't ask for anything ridiculous because i respect that they need to cover their table fees and other expenses, but I think everything worked out for me and for them. I did my deals on Thurs and Fri when there likely wasn't much pressure on those dealers to sell to me given that Saturday was probably going to also be very busy for them. AND, I was able to sell some of my memorabilia to dealers. So my buying and selling experience was pretty satisfying. In Chicago last year, I had a similar experience on a Saturday.

Again, it may have to do with the fact that I tend to buy stuff that is not insanely expensive (e.g., cards in high grades) or in ultra-high demand (rare cards).

[Gradedcardman]

I went to Cleveland this year to buy and I was able to do that. The best deal for vintage I found was at trade night and spent a good amount of money. The deals are there but you have to ask for them.

[vintagerookies51]

Unless you're looking for a very oddball item, I don't understand why people would buy anything at the National when you can get it in an auction for significantly less. For me, going to the National is for a few reasons - I loved being able to bring in a big $ card by hand, get it graded, and consign it face to face after talking with a few auction houses. It eliminates the stress of shipping. Second would be the autograph guests. Getting to meet one or more of your childhood heroes is pretty cool. Third, it's basically the best sports museum in the world, especially this year. Not often you get to see the most valuable piece of sports collectibles in history in person. While it wasn't a priority for me going, I do enjoy the social aspect as well. None of my friends or family really speak the language of sports cards so it was nice to chat with people while waiting in the hour long lines.

[Hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by Gradedcardman

I went to Cleveland this year to buy and I was able to do that. The best deal for vintage I found was at trade night and spent a good amount of money. The deals are there but you have to ask for them.

Share an example?

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by jethrod3

Maybe that's the case if you are buying a rare card or a card that is in high demand. However, I had no problem getting fair deals for the major purchases that I made, which were mid-grade 1955 Topps baseball star cards and the Terry Bradshaw rookie (PSA 5). I got these from a couple of dealers that had a lot of vintage stuff that I felt was more or less priced fairly once you expressed interest in them. That is, they had stickers on them that priced them a bit higher than recent eBay sales, but in the end I got them for probably slightly less than the going rate on eBay (and I didn't have to pay for shipping!!). I'm sure that the dealers that sold to me got what they needed to get out of those sales, and I didn't ask for anything ridiculous because i respect that they need to cover their table fees and other expenses, but I think everything worked out for me and for them. I did my deals on Thurs and Fri when there likely wasn't much pressure on those dealers to sell to me given that Saturday was probably going to also be very busy for them. AND, I was able to sell some of my memorabilia to dealers. So my buying and selling experience was pretty satisfying. In Chicago last year, I had a similar experience on a Saturday. Again, it may have to do with the fact that I tend to buy stuff that is not insanely expensive (e.g., cards in high grades) or in ultra-high demand (rare cards).

What a great experience you had, I'm sure there are many other true collectors with similar stories. This sounds to me like what the perfect show should be like.

[jethrod3]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

What a great experience you had, I'm sure there are many other true collectors with similar stories. This sounds to me like what the perfect show should be like.

Yes! In many ways it was a perfect show for me (aside from the traffic and wi-fi issues that everyone had to deal with)! I was also able to consign all of the stuff I brought to a major auction house (that usually does not happen!!), and after several years, my son (now an adult) came with me for one day. He hadn't attended a National since he was maybe 11, and we had a great time!