Does anyone actually like the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle?

[skelly423]

Does anyone actually like the 1952 Mantle?
Every few weeks there's another thread where people jump at the chance to call the 1952 Mantle as ugly, overrated (card and/or player), "just a second year card", etc., and declare they'd never want one for their collection. Very seldom do I see a defence of the card.

Everyone understands the hobby narrative around this card, but it feels a bit like someone decided 50+ years ago that the 1952 set -- also widely panned as overrated and ugly -- is iconic, and that status has been carved into stone ever since. The Mantle is the crown jewel of the set and as such is given iconic status. The argument for owning a Mantle seems to be based on the circular reasoning that the prices for the Mantle will always go up because "they've always gone up".

Why do we accept the 1952 Mantle as a pillar of the hobby when the a clear majority of collectors (on this board anyway) seem to dislike both the card and the set? Why do we take it as a given that the price will move straight up forever? Will this card still hold its hobby status after the generation that has living memory of the Mick dies off and we're left with just the numbers and a few grainy videos?

[butchie_t]

I like the card, I like the set. I have the Topps reprint set as it is the only one I will ever afford.

I think the cards in the set are really cool.

:shrug:

Cheers,

Butch

[Seven]

I love the 1952 Topps set, and I love Mantle's card from it as well. Mantle is my main collecting interest. I was barely a year old when Mantle died, never saw him play. I think they'll be a good amount of collectors of Mantle cards for a very long time, that will value his 52 Topps card, and his other issues.

[Harliduck]

Does anyone actually like the 52 Mantle?


YES.

My son-in-law was born in 1997, and is a part time collector of new shiny stuff...and before I met him his lifetime goal is to one day own that card.

[todeen]

While I don't have a goal to own one, I like the 52 Mantle. It's not my favorite, but I have no "bad" feelings toward it. The drawn and sometimes cartoonish look of the cards isn't the best, but compared to the 1940s R302 set, the 1952 set is WAY better. The design also sets it apart from other sets of the decade, and that's okay - it's recognizable. I also like the 55 Bowman set, which a lot of collectors dislike. I think the TV border is an awesome time capsule of the era.

I only own one 52 Topps, and that is the Reds Ted Kluszewski. And I'm actually pretty proud to own that card. Not sure how I could collect a 50s era player and not own the 52 Topps.

I think a set I dislike more than 52 Topps is 48 Leaf, but I've come around to that set over the years as well.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by skelly423

Will this card still hold its hobby status after the generation that has living memory of the Mick dies off and we're left with just the numbers and a few grainy videos?

I think that question has already been answered by Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Joe Jackson and Christy Mathewson among others.

As far as the set and the Mick individually, the '52T set planted the flag for post war cards. Most mainstream releases since then are based on the '52 set design elements of that release - dimensional proportions, team logo, player's name, border, signature, color photo, stats and writeup. And as far as the Mick, I'd say he is second only to Ruth as far as collectability. Show me a player that more prevalent on the b/s/t boards than Mickey.

For me personally, it's not my favorite Mick card, but it is the white whale that I will pursue.

[pawpawdiv9]

YES!
It is the 'white-whale' of collecting. A dream card to ever own.
I envy the guys on this board that had one. (Bestdj)
I grabbed the 51 Bowman -since it was more affordable.
I eventually got mine in late 2013.
(of course this is before i dug into the pre-war stuff like Cobb & Ruth)

[ALR-bishop]

I collect all Topps sets and so collected the 52 set, which of necessity includes the Mantle. I also collect at a minimum recognized variations in those sets. For 52 that meant 2 Mantles. It is not my favorite set or card. I also have the Bowman sets and like it more than his 51 Bowman

As you said there are many threads debating why the 52 Mantle is what it is in the hobby. It does seem to me that most folks who disparage the card don’t have it

[irv]

I honestly don't know what's not to like about the 52 Topps Mantle and the rest of the set?
Are there, maybe, better looking cards out there? Sure, but the 52 Topps set will gone down in history as being the most iconic set of all time that paved the way we see cards today.

" The 407-card set was the largest ever produced at the time of its release".
1952 Topps Baseball laid the foundation for what would become the modern trading card. In addition to the larger checklist, the design of the cards themselves featured full team logos, colorized black-and-white photography and, most interestingly, a facsimile signature of the player taken directly from their player contract with Topps.
https://www.cardboardconnection.com/...baseball-cards
https://www.cardboardconnection.com/...seball-cards-2

[G1911]

I don’t think there’s really such a polar divide like suggested. I like the card, the 52 Topps are a nice set. At the same, it is factually just a second year card, not a rookie. It’s pricing is abnormal and difficult to defend on the normal ‘rules’ of card values. It is difficult to deny it is overpriced by any rational look at the item. It’s a long running hype train, on a nice card. I’m sure the hype to inflate its price will continue unabated.

[MattyC]

I guess I'll go ahead and debase myself by entering into another of these asinine threads where some schmuck tries to diss the 52 Mantle.

Yes, many of us love it. Many of us in our 30s and 40s. Kids now 12 revering it at shows. And on and on and on. It has attained iconic status, and will always be the standard bearer of the postwar card hobby.

Anyone who wants to wait out its becoming undesirable for some twisted, pathetic form of satisfaction, go on and wait. You'll be dust before that ever happens.

The card is beautiful. The blue background. His look in the portrait.

The card is challenging for a collector— to find a centered copy. Probably 95% or more are off centered and tilted. It also represents a BELOVED athlete. For all these reasons it is a beloved card by many.

So it's pretty and challenging and significant to the card hobby as the card from a watershed set. And it depicts a super popular legend who played for a team with a massive fan base. Kids of Yankee fans learn who Yankee legends are, and kids involved in the card hobby today learn about that particular card.

Could some people out there hate the color of blue? Or the Yankees? I guess. To them I say spend less time having negative feelings toward a baseball card and spend more time collecting whatever it is you enjoy.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

I think that question has already been answered by Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Joe Jackson and Christy Mathewson among others.

Thank God someone surfaced with this ironclad logic, so I did't have to type it for the umpteenth time. The notion that interest will die over time is so specious and reductive and rears its head every now and then on these boards and others. When someone advances that theory, do they even bother to take a beat and think about Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Ty Cobb, and Shoeless Joe cards? And frankly while I LOVE all of those players and LOVE their cards, one could argue the 52 Mantle is more popular than any of them— so if demand and prices for their cards endures today, the Mantle's surely will.

This is also worth flagging: "The argument for owning a Mantle seems to be based on the circular reasoning that the prices for the Mantle will always go up because "they've always gone up".

Who says that is the reason Mantle owners own a Mantle? I and many owners I know could not give a rat's ass if the price halves or doubles. In fact, as a COLLECTOR I wish all my cards would halve so I could buy new stuff without having to sell anything. I bought my Mantle because I revere the player, the humanity of the man in the end of his life, baseball card history, the look of the card, the team, the card as a symbol of baseball and the Yankees and America in that era... notice nowhere in my list of reasons for owning the card is the presumption above— that its price will go up. And I can speak for too many collectors I know to list here that their reasons for owning one also do not include its future price. Besides, if one buys never intending to sell in their lifetime, who cares what the price is? That money will never be seen.

Also, when Louisville Slugger is putting a 52T Mantle as the headliner of its Museum Exhibits in our time today, that is further powerful proof of how the card will endure. Here's a video for the one or two people out there who don't realize that people of all ages are exposed to this card and its status today, below. I believe both Fogel's and Kendrick's Mantles have also been on Museum display for people of all ages recently. Not to mention the press on the PSA 9 sale.

LINK:

Mantle On News At Museum

[irv]

And this one just ended.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/394160501784...&segname=11010

Still a healthy price as far as I know?

[MattyC]

For that degree of off centering and tilt, indeed a strong price. The premium for that card when the centering is there is exponential. Recent prices include 180k for an SGC 5 that was prettier than a PSA 5 that sold at the same time for 156k. Both were superior in eye appeal to that PSA 5 that sold for 124k. A PSA 3 that looked better than all of them sold for 163k at Heritage. Goldin also just sold a very low eye appeal 1 for $36,000.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by butchie_t

I like the card, I like the set. I have the Topps reprint set as it is the only one I will ever afford.

I think the cards in the set are really cool.

:shrug:

Cheers,

Butch

I also have the Topps reprint set. The Mantle is OK but the true gem is the Eddie Mathews card. Besides the Mathews I did have a few 52s and gave them away to people building the set as I know I will never give it a try.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If you believe in the collective wisdom of a free market, well, the market continues to speak on this one. I don't think that makes the case for owning one from an investment perspective circular.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Thank God someone surfaced with this ironclad logic, so I did't have to type it for the umpteenth time. The notion that interest will die over time is so specious and reductive and rears its head every now and then on these boards and others. When someone advances that theory, do they even bother to take a beat and think about Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Ty Cobb, and Shoeless Joe cards? And frankly while I LOVE all of those players and LOVE their cards, one could argue the 52 Mantle is more popular than any of them— so if demand and prices for their cards endures today, the Mantle's surely will.

This is also worth flagging: "The argument for owning a Mantle seems to be based on the circular reasoning that the prices for the Mantle will always go up because "they've always gone up".

Who says that is the reason Mantle owners own a Mantle? I and many owners I know could not give a rat's ass if the price halves or doubles. In fact, as a COLLECTOR I wish all my cards would halve so I could buy new stuff without having to sell anything. I bought my Mantle because I revere the player, the humanity of the man in the end of his life, baseball card history, the look of the card, the team, the card as a symbol of baseball and the Yankees and America in that era... notice nowhere in my list of reasons for owning the card is the presumption above— that its price will go up. And I can speak for too many collectors I know to list here that their reasons for owning one also do not include its future price. Besides, if one buys never intending to sell in their lifetime, who cares what the price is? That money will never be seen.

Also, when Louisville Slugger is putting a 52T Mantle as the headliner of its Museum Exhibits in our time today, that is further powerful proof of how the card will endure. Here's a video for the one or two people out there who don't realize that people of all ages are exposed to this card and its status today, below. I believe both Fogel's and Kendrick's Mantles have also been on Museum display for people of all ages recently. Not to mention the press on the PSA 9 sale.

LINK:

Mantle On News At Museum

As I've said many times, Mantle was a perfect storm of factors contributing to his popularity. Center fielder on the New York Yankees in their greatest era is a good start. All the pennants and WS and post-season home runs. The unprecedented switch-hitting power. The tape measure home runs. The blond folk hero personality. The mystique of overcoming injuries. A great player, better than most people assess him if you consider all the times he reached on walks, and then magnified by all the intangibles. Even his name is a bit magical. His stature will endure, IMO.

[frankbmd]

......and he followed in the footsteps of Mr. Mouse.

[ALR-bishop]

Admit it Matt, you somewhat enjoy debasing yourself in these Mantle discussions

[bobsbbcards]

Yes, from the not as clear minority.

[JustinD]

I really don't hate it, I just don't really appreciate it as much as the dictated value. I feel that's the large misunderstanding here.

If using my own money, I would much rather have a Basquiat than a Monet or Renoir. That does not devalue the latter, it just makes it not my preference.

It's also a disservice to state the common, "People who say this always seem to not have one". (Not picking on you Al. ) As that statement is certainly a logical fallacy, as it is truly stating jealously or envy as the intent. A more logical statement would be that if someone does not appreciate it they will likely have their eggs in a basket they more appreciate.

In my mind, it just is most likely never going to be at a price point that equals my appreciation of it and just will more than likely never own one at any income level as other items will shine above at that price. That statement does not devalue the item in real life, it is actually stating that it will remain valuable.

[ALR-bishop]

It’s ok Justin. I am used to getting picked on. Bob does it all the time. 🥹

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

It’s ok Justin. I am used to getting picked on. Bob does it all the time. 🥹

I believe it, lol. You two are certainly peas in a pod.

[Exhibitman]

This thread needs an image:



Lemme take a slightly different approach to start and evaluate the card from an aesthetic standpoint.

On the positive side:
--It's large
--Has a nice team logo
--Has a facsimile autograph
--Has clean uncluttered graphics (I hate cards where all the exploding crap all over the borders intrudes into the card image).
--has borders (not a fan of full bleed)
--Has a nice blue background that trends towards aqua (admittedly, I am biased since blue is my favorite color) and has a pop-art feel to it
--looks like Mantle (I know this is a subject of debate but absent a caption I would know it is him, so it passes muster with me)
--Flexichrome (I happen to like them)
--Stats on the back for the past year and lifetime
--Vitals on the back
--A nice write-up courtesy of Mr. Berger

On the negative side:
--The yellow bat color is odd
--The foreshortening needed to render the face accurately lacks the sharp lines differentiating the jaw. Would I have preferred a nice 3/4 portrait? Sure.

Aesthetically, overall, I find it to be a pleasing rendering and card. Not as nice as the 1954 Topps set that I have always preferred, but better than average design for the era.

Now, let's talk reality on the iconic nature of the card. This has been THE postwar card since I was a kid collector in the late 1970s. That's a 40+ year run. Unless there is a realignment of collectors that I simply do not see happening in my lifetime, this card is going to remain THE postwar card. Newbie collectors and even non-collectors are geeked on this card. That doesn't happen with more than a handful of cards.

Now, the Dread Pirate Roberts--investor--view. The 1952 Mantle has been on a steady growth trend for decades. Look at the components of the DJIA in 1980 and compare them to what makes up the average now. Lots of dead or deleted companies. I am not worried that the Mantle will be worthless in 20 years. I am worried that I will be priced out of owning one in the next few years.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I have no reservations saying that I would love to have one in my collection someday.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[GasHouseGang]

It is based off an actual photo.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

It is based off an actual photo.

It's not a great rendering (eg the eyes) and whatever isn't quite reproduced, IMO, makes it lose a lot of resemblance. Sure, it's still him, but in a cartoonish short of way.

[lowpopper]

Yes

[pawpawdiv9]

Saw this today on Ebay and me me wonder WTF?
Just about everything happened to this card- stained, trimmed, punched & paper loss.
But CSG graded it!!!
Reminded me of the Santa mantle- the bearded one
Still wanna call this 16K beautiful??

[campyfan39]

Great card and image. The holy grail IMO. Best card form THE set that set the standard

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

Saw this today on Ebay and me me wonder WTF?
Just about everything happened to this card- stained, trimmed, punched & paper loss.
But CSG graded it!!!
Reminded me of the Santa mantle- the bearded one
Still wanna call this 16K beautiful??

This card actually shows very well where it needs to imo. Better eye appeal to me than one that looks like it got ran over and every inch is creased.

[ewomack]

I don't ever plan to own a '52 Topps Mantle, but from the moment I purchased Volume 1 of Beckett's, it has always had the mystical lure of the unattainable for me. I don't think I've ever even seen one in person.

Would I like one? Sure. Would I ever pay the required money to obtain one? Very likely not. Though, like many others here, I think it's a great card with a great history. The somewhat cartoonish depiction appeals to me as well. I would happily buy an affordable replica, though it looks like the Topps reprint reduced the size, for probably obvious reasons. I do have a replica T206 Wagner and I know that' the closest that I'll ever get to one. I could do the same with the '52 Topps Mantle. A great card. And it will likely stay that way for some time.

The '52 Topps Yogi Berra seems more obtainable, maybe I'll make a realistic goal for myself and try for that one.

[G1911]

That's a better plan, I'll take Yogi for ~$130 over Mickey for ~$30,000 every day of the week. I really regret not picking up a Mays in 2019; My 1-310 may now become a 309 card set. Most all of the other lower number HOFers are still affordable on almost any budget if one isn't condition picky.

[ALR-bishop]

I see Matty has found another 52 Mantle to love on the main board

[TUM301]

Count me in as a fan of the 52 Mantle. My thoughts are Wagner is the "it" card in the collecting world while the Mantle holds the title with the main stream public.

[GasHouseGang]

Somebody must like it. This one is expected to bring over $10M dollars.

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515

[Carter08]

Love the 52 Mantle. The yellow bat doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I actually love the coloring on the card, much like other 52s. And I own/can afford none of them.

[irv]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Somebody must like it. This one is expected to bring over $10M dollars.

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515

Just watched it jump from $4,250,000 to $4,300.000.
Will be fun watching this one to see where it ends.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by irv

Just watched it jump from $4,250,000 to $4,300.000.
Will be fun watching this one to see where it ends.

I am with you, it will be fun to watch. I am not a big condition collector so I would be just as happy to have the awesome 52 Mantle you have.

[Exhibitman]

If a 9.5 sells for $10mm will a 1 be worth 1% of that ($100K)?

[GasHouseGang]

Ignore the grade. Here are ten examples of high grade 1952 Mantles. Imagine that you're at the National Convention and want to pick the very best 1952 Topps Mantle you can find for your collection. Further imagine, that since you're stinking rich, price doesn't matter.

Can you pick a favorite?

[bobsbbcards]

I’d take the 02006104 PSA 10 (Fogel’s I think).

[GasHouseGang]

What if you wanted a type 1 and a type 2?

[bobsbbcards]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

What if you wanted a type 1 and a type 2?

Do I look like I'm Al?

[MattyC]

Wow that is an awesome post up there with all that eye candy. For me the two I would take are the new SGC 9.5 and also Fogel's. But then over the others which I know are much higher grade, I swear I would take my lowly 4.5 because I am all about centering and color and how they form eye appeal. The others are just too OC or tilted for me. But again that is just me and my eye is always drawn from the framing which I like to be even into the center of the card, so corners matter least to me.