Eating Crow: GOOD EXPERIENCE w/ sicollector1954; Poor Misunderstanding by Me

[KMayUSA6060]

UPDATE: A public apology needs to be issued by me to this user - sicollector1954, Dave Pearce.

This post by Robertsmithnocure provided clarity into my misunderstanding...

"I was confused too and read the seller’s response the same way. I thought that he said that they were copies but were actually signed by the ball players."

Having misunderstood from the beginning, with the expectation of these photos being real along with the autographs, receiving copied photos led me to believe the autographs were copies as well. I remembered that the original email had his phone number, so I quickly called Dave (something I should have done upon receiving the photos) upon reading that comment and he provided clarity, that these photos are indeed copies, but the autographs are indeed real. The $50 price per is now very much justified, and I have sent back Dave's refund as USPS did not pick up the package yet so I am still in possession of the photos for my baby girl's room.

I completely jumped the gun on judgement, and did not take the necessary steps to provide clarity for myself. Lesson learned. I don't know if Crow was on the menu at the first Thanksgiving, but I'm definitely eating Crow for Thanksgiving this year.

Dave, if you read this, I am sincerely sorry for not 100% clearing up any misunderstandings before publicly posting about this.


Another Update: Upon further communication with Dave, I informed him of this thread, and issued a similar apology echoing my faults. To speak to Dave's character, he is still offering to ask Ange Armato to personalize autographs for my soon-to-be-newborn daughter and stepdaughter. Class act.

_____________________________________________

I posted in the Memorabilia section that I was looking for AAGPBL items to decorate my soon-to-be-daughter's baby room. Dave (sicollector1954) PM'd me, stating "...recently purchased 30 signed and framed photos of other players from Ange Armato who is a former Rockford player...they were in her house on the wall---can send you a list if you like and a couple of pics..."

I emailed him, and he shared pictures of his collection, along with the photos he would be willing to sell. $50 per photo was his ask, which I agreed to. He said he's raising money for a museum to be built in Rockford, IL, for the AAGPBL, which the rest of his collection would be donated to upon its completion. I was exciting to be contributing to the fundraiser, while also receiving some amazing memorabilia - with a story behind it - for my daughter's room.

I received the photos today, and unfortunately they are copies of the originals. I re-read all of our communications, and did not see a single mention of them being copies. I emailed him to confirm these were indeed copies, to which he confirmed. I then replied, asking for a refund as I was under the impression they were original, signed photos, and would not have paid $50 per for copies. His reply "Send them back. If any of these were originals..they would cost hundreds of dollars each..i indicated what i paid for an original 2x3 of dottie green in one of my previous emails. Thanks."

The deception/lack of clarity, especially with the nature of my search being for my baby's room, really rubbed me the wrong way. He did refund me as of this morning. Below are links for all of our communication with redaction (a phone number, children's names, and addresses). If any deals are done in the future with this member, just be sure there is 100% clarity on what you're purchasing/receiving.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xZ9...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/103g...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yHR...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1f8B...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pui...ew?usp=sharing


Kyle May

[h2oya311]

I’m sorry you had a bad experience, Kyle. Seems the member was willing to step up and refund though, so all is not lost. In fact, some might say that this was a positive experience in that he made things right by refunding, although I don’t doubt at all that this left a sour taste in your mouth.

Communication is key! I’ve certainly had my share of customer returns due to card issues that were undisclosed (often times because I didn’t know about them myself).

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

I’m sorry you had a bad experience, Kyle. Seems the member was willing to step up and refund though, so all is not lost. In fact, some might say that this was a positive experience in that he made things right by refunding, although I don’t doubt at all that this left a sour taste in your mouth.

Communication is key! I’ve certainly had my share of customer returns due to card issues that were undisclosed (often times because I didn’t know about them myself).

The willingness to refund was definitely a positive, although having Goods & Services protection was certainly nice backup.

I went back and forth on posting anything at all, because in the end I'm out essentially nothing except excitement. However, after deciding to move forward with a post, I wanted to be very careful on how I worded the post, juggling the benefit of the doubt with preventing this type of thing from happening in the future.

[vthobby]

I see nothing but a seller who gave you plenty of his time and effort, offered to get some things signed for your kid on his time, and offered you a refund the same day you emailed him.

Yes he "could" have mentioned they were copies but I see no nefarious intent or activity in those emails. I see a gentleman that has a passion for the sport and the history of women's baseball and was excited to help you with your project.

Far from poor. I wish some of my bad experiences were as pleasant as this.

He seems like a pretty cool guy!

Peace, Mike

[earlywynnfan]

FWIW, while the seller could have made it clear that these weren't original photos, I think some of the onus needs to be on the buyer here, too. You aren't ignorant, you've been on the forum for many years. I have no idea how much an original signed photo is, but in no way would I expect to get a whole bunch of 70-year old original signed photos for $50 each. Did you possibly think that at any point? If you wanted originals, you should have asked if they were originals.

[Snapolit1]

Can tell you are very disappointed, but Seller really didn’t handle this poorly at all. To each his own, but not sure this needed to be escalated publicly. Seems like it was a misunderstanding in both sides that was promptly resolved with a minimum of drama.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

FWIW, while the seller could have made it clear that these weren't original photos, I think some of the onus needs to be on the buyer here, too. You aren't ignorant, you've been on the forum for many years. I have no idea how much an original signed photo is, but in no way would I expect to get a whole bunch of 70-year old original signed photos for $50 each. Did you possibly think that at any point? If you wanted originals, you should have asked if they were originals.

Is $50 a piece the going rate for lower-quality copies of original photos?

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Can tell you are very disappointed, but Seller really didn’t handle this poorly at all. To each his own, but not sure this needed to be escalated publicly. Seems like it was a misunderstanding in both sides that was promptly resolved with a minimum of drama.

+1 Agreed just sounds like an opportunity to improve communications and learning for us all to ensure complete and clear understanding of the transaction.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Can tell you are very disappointed, but Seller really didn’t handle this poorly at all. To each his own, but not sure this needed to be escalated publicly. Seems like it was a misunderstanding in both sides that was promptly resolved with a minimum of drama.

Having said that, anyone selling photos should conspicuously state that they are copies and not original photos. That’s only fair.

[notfast]

Of course guy issued refund right away. He had no option.

It’s weird to me that people are OK with this and defending the seller when he obviously (and probably intentionally) left out some important facts about the stuff he was selling.

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Is $50 a piece the going rate for lower-quality copies of original photos?

On November 18th at 3:36pm it was.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Is $50 a piece the going rate for lower-quality copies of original photos?

Not that I am hurting for money, but $50 for scanned copies is ridiculous. Remind me not buy anything from this rip-off "doing me a favor".

That said, to expect only $50 for any real AAGPBL memorabilia, photos, whatever, is irrational too.

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by notfast

Of course guy issued refund right away. He had no option.

It’s weird to me that people are OK with this and defending the seller when he obviously (and probably intentionally) left out some important facts about the stuff he was selling.

Every seller has an option to refund.....or NOT. Plenty of troubles out there right now with sellers. This guy is not one of the bad guys. If you read all the emails they exchanged you will see that.

I agree that this should not have been made public. The guy refunded him nearly instantly after they talked. Real poor experience! Really? Oh the drama!

Mike

[scooter729]

I don't know either party involved here, but I'm totally with Kyle on this one. You can't advertise signed photos as being 'signed' when they're copies. I would totally expect $50 each for signed photos to be a fair rate - we're not talking Ruth and Gehrig here.

Yeah, he refunded the money, which is great - but seemed like a deceptive selling tactic in the first place. There are cards signed by AAGBPL players on eBay for $10 - $20, so why should $50 for an authentic signed photo seem ridiculous?

Again, glad the seller refunded - but don't love the selling attempt here....

Scott S@r!@n

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by scooter729

I don't know either party involved here, but I'm totally with Kyle on this one. You can't advertise signed photos as being 'signed' when they're copies. I would totally expect $50 each for signed photos to be a fair rate - we're not talking Ruth and Gehrig here.

Yeah, he refunded the money, which is great - but seemed like a deceptive selling tactic in the first place. There are cards signed by AAGBPL players on eBay for $10 - $20, so why should $50 for an authentic signed photo seem ridiculous?

Again, glad the seller refunded - but don't love the selling attempt here....

Scott S@r!@n

One of us is reading this wrong. I gathered that these are copies of original photos, but with REAL autographs.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Is $50 a piece the going rate for lower-quality copies of original photos?

Depends on the players and the desirability. Especially if they are players htat passed a long time ago. They do originate from the home of an actual player, that might put a premium in some eyes.

Were you more interested in the autographs or the photos?

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I posted in the Memorabilia section that I was looking for AAGPBL items to decorate my soon-to-be-daughter's baby room. Dave (sicollector1954) PM'd me, stating "...recently purchased 30 signed and framed photos of other players from Ange Armato who is a former Rockford player...they were in her house on the wall---can send you a list if you like and a couple of pics..."

I emailed him, and he shared pictures of his collection, along with the photos he would be willing to sell. $50 per photo was his ask, which I agreed to. He said he's raising money for a museum to be built in Rockford, IL, for the AAGPBL, which the rest of his collection would be donated to upon its completion. I was exciting to be contributing to the fundraiser, while also receiving some amazing memorabilia - with a story behind it - for my daughter's room.

I received the photos today, and unfortunately they are copies of the originals. I re-read all of our communications, and did not see a single mention of them being copies. I emailed him to confirm these were indeed copies, to which he confirmed. I then replied, asking for a refund as I was under the impression they were original, signed photos, and would not have paid $50 per for copies. His reply "Send them back. If any of these were originals..they would cost hundreds of dollars each..i indicated what i paid for an original 2x3 of dottie green in one of my previous emails. Thanks."

The deception/lack of clarity, especially with the nature of my search being for my baby's room, really rubbed me the wrong way. He did refund me as of this morning. Below are links for all of our communication with redaction (a phone number, children's names, and addresses). If any deals are done in the future with this member, just be sure there is 100% clarity on what you're purchasing/receiving.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xZ9...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/103g...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yHR...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1f8B...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pui...ew?usp=sharing


Kyle May

I'm unclear, the photos aren't original, but are the autographs??

[NiceDocter]

Just to be clear…. did the items sent turn out to be copied photos with genuine in ink autographs or were they copies of autographed photos with nothing original about them? Is the original autograph the problem or is it the copied photo or is it both? Either way Im glad you had a quick resolution ….. Rocky

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I'm unclear, the photos aren't original, but are the autographs??

The autographs are on the original photos. What I received are strictly copies of the originals.

[notfast]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Every seller has an option to refund.....or NOT. Plenty of troubles out there right now with sellers. This guy is not one of the bad guys. If you read all the emails they exchanged you will see that.

I agree that this should not have been made public. The guy refunded him nearly instantly after they talked. Real poor experience! Really? Oh the drama!

Mike

Seller was going to be forced to refund $ by PayPal whether he wanted to or not. His hand would have been forced. Aka “no option”

Seller should properly describe items they’re selling. If that was done, this thread wouldn’t exist.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by NiceDocter

Just to be clear…. did the items sent turn out to be copied photos with genuine in ink autographs or were they copies of autographed photos with nothing original about them? Is the original autograph the problem or is it the copied photo or is it both? Either way Im glad you had a quick resolution ….. Rocky

The bold part is correct. They were copies of autographed photos with nothing original about them.

The communication from the beginning led me to believe they were original items from his collection, albeit the cheapest items that he was willing to sell.

[D. Bergin]

Ahh, this is a tough one, but it just seems like a big misunderstanding.

My initial impression was that these were just copies of signed photos. Not copied photos with legitimate signatures, as the correspondence seems to state.

So to clarify, these were "copies" of vintage photos, that the ballplayer in question had signed by other ballplayers and had hanging in her house?

I mean, when it comes down to it, the majority of signed photos are just copied photos to begin with.

I have no idea of the market for AAGPBL signed material otherwise, but $50 bucks seems in line with what also seems like a fundraising effort which might bring a little bit of a premium for the cause.

On the other hand, in my own specialty, I've sold hundreds of of old signed boxing photos through the years, guaranteed authentic and with great provenance... Hall of Famers, Stars and the Obscure, for under $50 bucks apiece.

I can understand why Kyle might have been expecting something a little nicer then what he had received.

If I've misinterpreted this whole thing, and it turns out these were all straight up copies (photos AND signatures), that's a whole different story, and I wouldn't blame Kyle for being slightly pissed.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Ahh, this is a tough one, but it just seems like a big misunderstanding.

My initial impression was that these were just copies of signed photos. Not copied photos with legitimate signatures, as the correspondence seems to state.

So to clarify, these were "copies" of vintage photos, that the ballplayer in question had signed by other ballplayers and had hanging in her house?

I mean, when it comes down to it, the majority of signed photos are just copied photos to begin with.

I have no idea of the market for AAGPBL signed material otherwise, but $50 bucks seems in line with what also seems like a fundraising effort which might bring a little bit of a premium for the cause.

On the other hand, in my own specialty, I've sold hundreds of of old signed boxing photos through the years, guaranteed authentic and with great provenance... Hall of Famers, Stars and the Obscure, for under $50 bucks apiece.

I can understand why Kyle might have been expecting something a little nicer then what he had received.

If I've misinterpreted this whole thing, and it turns out these were all straight up copies (photos AND signatures), that's a whole different story, and I wouldn't blame Kyle for being slightly pissed.

LOL, looks like I'm late to the party and took too long to respond.

I guess Kyle has a right to be pissed.

I don't think the seller had bad intentions, but he did misinterpret Kyle's interest in his material. Glad things were made right other then a lot of time and energy being wasted on both ends of this transaction.

50 bucks IS a bit steep for straight up copies...even if they did come framed from a ballplayers house.

[Leon]

The seller should have stated the pictures AND signatures are fake reproductions. It's on the seller to state what he is selling imo.

If I sold someone here a picture of a T206 card, and didn't state it was a reproduction, then that is my fault.

Here is what happened when I got sold a picture of an N173 on ebay. My case was immediately dismissed by an idiot at Ebay. I escalated to a higher up person whom I know and got this in an email right after I told him what happened.

We've sent you a refund

Hi Leon,

After reviewing this case, we decided to refund you for this purchase. We did this because the item was not as described.
We're sorry you had a problem with this purchase.
A refund of US $757.75 will be credited to your original payment method. It may take 3 to 5 business days for the refund to be completed.


See case details

1888 Old Judge Cigarettes Mike Slattery N173 Post Card 5.75" x 3.75" -GUARANTEED
Order number: 25-06643-73887
Seller:
caliscottage

Quantity: 1
Case #: 5263079765
Case opened: Mar 8, 2021
Case closed: Mar 8, 2021

Email reference id: [#e904d171ad2b43e59778799f168d191b#]
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[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

The bold part is correct. They were copies of autographed photos with nothing original about them.

The communication from the beginning led me to believe they were original items from his collection, albeit the cheapest items that he was willing to sell.

I see now. This makes it different, I can't imagine not saying they were total copies.

[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I see now. This makes it different, I can't imagine not saying they were total copies.

I was confused too and read the seller’s response the same way. I thought that he said that they were copies but were actually signed by the ball players.

[parkplace33]

Kyle, thanks for the information. I always like to see feedback (good and bad) on net54 dealings.

[Joe Hunter]

if the cost of the photos had been $5.00 each, then you could make the assumption that the photos were copies. At $50.00 each, that assumption could not be made; the fact that they are copies(photos and signatures) should have been clearly pointed out in the correspondence.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by robertsmithnocure

I was confused too and read the seller’s response the same way. I thought that he said that they were copies but were actually signed by the ball players.

Thank you for commenting this. This clicked for some reason that I misunderstood that the autographs were NOT copies, and actually real as cleared up by Dave via phone call after reading this post.

The original post has been updated to reflect a public apology to Dave Pearce for my misunderstanding.

Crow is not as good as turkey for Thanksgiving.

[ALBB]

Crow isnt too bad for Holiday dinner
..pumpkin flavored..

[mrreality68]

Kyle

We respect you standing tall with the apology.

In the end glad it worked out

And again it is a lesson to all about clarity and communication.

Happy Turkey Day

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Kyle

We respect you standing tall with the apology.

In the end glad it worked out

And again it is a lesson to all about clarity and communication.

Happy Turkey Day

+1

[Carter08]

This caught my eye if you’re interested:

https://rmyauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=57012