ESPN Article on PSA

[Danny Smith]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...rd-submissions

[bobbyw8469]

Interesting.

[marzoumanian]

Informative read. I had no idea that people like Mr. Crenshaw existed. Call me naive. As a long-time collector it creeps me out a bit that this piece portrays a hobby that is all about chasing the almighty dollar through grading. Yes, I am aware that my cards have increased in value in the past year. Nothing wrong with that. But I am glad that my active days as a collector are (for the most part) in the rearview mirror. Peace.

[Belfast1933]

Thx for sharing...

So, why would AI grading be such a bad idea? It’s still a “buy the card, not the case” opportunity but I’d think technology could help to objectively measure corners, color brightness, centering, detect trimming, etc

Curious why technology would NOT be better than what we have now?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Belfast1933

Thx for sharing...

So, why would AI grading be such a bad idea? It’s still a “buy the card, not the case” opportunity but I’d think technology could help to objectively measure corners, color brightness, centering, detect trimming, etc

Curious why technology would NOT be better than what we have now?

Technology would be great for the honest guys, AI is not good for the card doctors and gamblers who love to take chances and cut corners. I think the Grading Companies as they are comprised of would be totally against AI grading.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Belfast1933

Thx for sharing...

So, why would AI grading be such a bad idea? It’s still a “buy the card, not the case” opportunity but I’d think technology could help to objectively measure corners, color brightness, centering, detect trimming, etc

Curious why technology would NOT be better than what we have now?

It would clearly be better. The eye appeal point is, frankly, stupid. That's the one thing we definitely don't need third party graders to tell us.

[Santo10Fan]

Maybe it's good for the new generation to learn condition all on their own. Who knows??

[jcc6252]

According to the article, "Crenshaw's company has a 96% accuracy rate on predicting what Professional Sports Authenticator (PSA) would grade a card."

I call BS. We all know PSA is all over the place with their assigned grades, and with their new, inexperienced workforce, the grading is no doubt even more unpredictable. I would be surprised if they hit 80%.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by jcc6252

According to the article, "Crenshaw's company has a 96% accuracy rate on predicting what Professional Sports Authenticator (PSA) would grade a card."

I call BS. We all know PSA is all over the place with their assigned grades, and with their new, inexperienced workforce, the grading is no doubt even more unpredictable. I would be surprised if they hit 80%.

maybe they're not so unpredictable with their "best" customers?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

maybe they're not so unpredictable with their "best" customers?

boom

[perezfan]

ESPN sucks. I turned them off the second they felt the need to make every aspect of sports political. The last thing I want to watch is "agendized" sports.

Bad reporting as well. Not even a mention of the alteration scandal, and the hobby's real need for AI technology. Quoting PWCC, Probstein and PSA as reputable sources doesn't add to their credibility either.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by jcc6252

According to the article, "Crenshaw's company has a 96% accuracy rate on predicting what Professional Sports Authenticator (PSA) would grade a card."

I call BS. We all know PSA is all over the place with their assigned grades, and with their new, inexperienced workforce, the grading is no doubt even more unpredictable. I would be surprised if they hit 80%.

Maybe it's a .96 correlation? That wouldn't be so tough if they're submitting a lot of lower condition vintage cards. Or maybe it's just 96% are within 1.5 points or something like that.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Maybe it's a .96 correlation? That wouldn't be so tough if they're submitting a lot of lower condition vintage cards. Or maybe it's just 96% are within 1.5 points or something like that.

I think they are only sending in ultra modern. Maybe he means that 96% of the cards are 9 or 10 and 4% are 8.5 or less. No way they are getting 96% exactly right.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

I think they are only sending in ultra modern. Maybe he means that 96% of the cards are 9 or 10 and 4% are 8.5 or less. No way they are getting 96% exactly right.

I bet I could predict a 4sc sub with 100 percent accurancy.

[vthobby]

PSA logged my card on 4/13/21 and the grade popped today 4/15/21.

I think my card jumped 10 million other cards including all of Bradley Crenshaws submissions! lol

Peace, Mike

[DanP]

Originally Posted by perezfan

ESPN sucks. I turned them off the second they felt the need to make every aspect of sports political. The last thing I want to watch is "agendized" sports.

Bad reporting as well. Not even a mention of the alteration scandal, and the hobby's real need for AI technology. Quoting PWCC, Probstein and PSA as reputable sources doesn't add to their credibility either.

+1 , haven’t watched them in years and don’t plan on it in the future.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by jcc6252

According to the article, "Crenshaw's company has a 96% accuracy rate on predicting what Professional Sports Authenticator (PSA) would grade a card."

I call BS. We all know PSA is all over the place with their assigned grades, and with their new, inexperienced workforce, the grading is no doubt even more unpredictable. I would be surprised if they hit 80%.

Yes, I agree. The variation in grading appears to be higher than 4%

[Chris Counts]

I agree. Every time MLB goes political, I figure out new and creative ways how to not give them my money.

As for ESPN, they shredded their credibility long ago.

Originally Posted by perezfan

ESPN sucks. I turned them off the second they felt the need to make every aspect of sports political. The last thing I want to watch is "agendized" sports.

Bad reporting as well. Not even a mention of the alteration scandal, and the hobby's real need for AI technology. Quoting PWCC, Probstein and PSA as reputable sources doesn't add to their credibility either.

[jbsports33]

Just finished reading, very interesting! The hobby is really upside down right now and I am hoping most shows come back soon. Shows could slow things down a bit and have the chance to talk in person with these grading companies.

and Chris you make a good point - ESPN and MLB have some issues and hope things improve - politics have no place in sports!

Jimmy

[steve B]

I still have serious doubts about AI grading.
Someone here made a serious run at it, appeared to have it mostly working, but only on an I phone? And painfully short on details.

Haven't seen an update in a while. Maybe it didn't work? Real work came back so it's back burnered for now?

It would help for some stuff like centering, but unless you've got a high res scan, there's lots that won't show up.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by perezfan

ESPN sucks. I turned them off the second they felt the need to make every aspect of sports political. The last thing I want to watch is "agendized" sports.

To this post and the others like it above: Do you guys not see any irony in gratuitously throwing a political "stick to sports" jab in a thread that has nothing to do with politics, about an article that has nothing to do with politics?

[68Hawk]

Just LOL at the commentary that sports shows have no place to lay out a political and social agenda.

Fancy an industry, whose history is shrouded in denying access to people of various ethnicities and colors and religions by white hegemonic ownership, and which now wants to throw all that bigoted stuff as far as possible from its current format and offering, allowing and encouraging FULL participation by ALL, and being able to sell it's product to a very multicultural paying populace, taking a stand against practices today that still disenfranchise many due solely to past racist policy and thinking.

The very nerve of such a thought.
I love that those who are confounded by dealing with the fact their own political and social agendas are no longer acceptable cannot keep their mouths closed about it. Always better to know thine enemy.

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by perezfan

ESPN sucks. I turned them off the second they felt the need to make every aspect of sports political. The last thing I want to watch is "agendized" sports.

Bad reporting as well. Not even a mention of the alteration scandal, and the hobby's real need for AI technology. Quoting PWCC, Probstein and PSA as reputable sources doesn't add to their credibility either.

Same here - I will suffer through ESPN when one of my teams is on (a few times per year) - but my days of sports center, espn.com etc are long long over.

[honus94566]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Just LOL at the commentary that sports shows have no place to lay out a political and social agenda.

Fancy an industry, whose history is shrouded in denying access to people of various ethnicities and colors and religions by white hegemonic ownership, and which now wants to throw all that bigoted stuff as far as possible from its current format and offering, allowing and encouraging FULL participation by ALL, and being able to sell it's product to a very multicultural paying populace, taking a stand against practices today that still disenfranchise many due solely to past racist policy and thinking.

The very nerve of such a thought.
I love that those who are confounded by dealing with the fact their own political and social agendas are no longer acceptable cannot keep their mouths closed about it. Always better to know thine enemy.

You are so dead on. Bravo!

[Frankish]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Just LOL at the commentary that sports shows have no place to lay out a political and social agenda.

Fancy an industry, whose history is shrouded in denying access to people of various ethnicities and colors and religions by white hegemonic ownership, and which now wants to throw all that bigoted stuff as far as possible from its current format and offering, allowing and encouraging FULL participation by ALL, and being able to sell it's product to a very multicultural paying populace, taking a stand against practices today that still disenfranchise many due solely to past racist policy and thinking.

The very nerve of such a thought.
I love that those who are confounded by dealing with the fact their own political and social agendas are no longer acceptable cannot keep their mouths closed about it. Always better to know thine enemy.

This.

[insidethewrapper]

There is no need for a company that correlates highly with PSA, I would want a company that doesn't correlate highly. Why a need for a company that would give you the same grade ? Grading companies should only tell if the card is authnetic or not and has not been doctored, bleached , trimmed etc and then the buyer would buy based on the condition of the card by looking at it in the slab and also have a good idea that it has not been tampered with. Again if they only authenticated that would be great ! That's all I need to know.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by jcc6252

According to the article, "Crenshaw's company has a 96% accuracy rate on predicting what Professional Sports Authenticator (PSA) would grade a card."

I call BS. We all know PSA is all over the place with their assigned grades, and with their new, inexperienced workforce, the grading is no doubt even more unpredictable. I would be surprised if they hit 80%.

Yep. Has to be bullshit when a 9 is equal to a 10 especially with modern era cards.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

There is no need for a company that correlates highly with PSA, I would want a company that doesn't correlate highly. Why a need for a company that would give you the same grade ? Grading companies should only tell if the card is authnetic or not and has not been doctored, bleached , trimmed etc and then the buyer would buy based on the condition of the card by looking at it in the slab and also have a good idea that it has not been tampered with. Again if they only authenticated that would be great ! That's all I need to know.

I almost agree, but I'm not sure I can remember the last time I got to inspect a card before I bought it.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Just LOL at the commentary that sports shows have no place to lay out a political and social agenda.

Fancy an industry, whose history is shrouded in denying access to people of various ethnicities and colors and religions by white hegemonic ownership, and which now wants to throw all that bigoted stuff as far as possible from its current format and offering, allowing and encouraging FULL participation by ALL, and being able to sell it's product to a very multicultural paying populace, taking a stand against practices today that still disenfranchise many due solely to past racist policy and thinking.

The very nerve of such a thought.
I love that those who are confounded by dealing with the fact their own political and social agendas are no longer acceptable cannot keep their mouths closed about it. Always better to know thine enemy.

Does seem like an odd hill to die on, but I guess society progresses one funeral at a time.

[sdimag]

Originally Posted by Chris Counts

I agree. Every time MLB goes political, I figure out new and creative ways how to not give them my money.

As for ESPN, they shredded their credibility long ago.

Likewise!I will not waste a minute of my time watching self-destroying MLB!
I quit watching ESPN years ago.

[Exhibitman]

If you just gotta run political smack go troll Facebook.

As far as the article goes, it was a really crappy piece of journalism for the reasons cited above: when your expert voices are sketchy characters and you present them at face value, you clearly haven't done your homework.

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by perezfan

ESPN sucks. I turned them off the second they felt the need to make every aspect of sports political. The last thing I want to watch is "agendized" sports.

Bad reporting as well. Not even a mention of the alteration scandal, and the hobby's real need for AI technology. Quoting PWCC, Probstein and PSA as reputable sources doesn't add to their credibility either.

God every post you make just makes me think you are more of an asshole than the last one did. Their level of ignorance, arrogance and just plain folly is staggering. And nobody can beat a dead horse like you can.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by perezfan

ESPN sucks. I turned them off the second they felt the need to make every aspect of sports political.

I completely agree that ESPN sucks, but I don't understand what you mean by the second sentence. How do they make "every aspect of sports political"?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by glynparson

God every post you make just makes me think you are more of an asshole than the last one did. Their level of ignorance, arrogance and just plain folly is staggering. And nobody can beat a dead horse like you can.

Hey Bud...

ESPN's ratings are completely in the tank (record lows, along with the NBA), so don't pretend I'm the only one who wants politics separated from sports. There are more than enough places to get your political fix, outside of sports channels. The country is already terribly divided, and infusing politics just makes it worse.

Must be nice to judge and denounce anyone who disagrees with you.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by perezfan

...........
Must be nice to judge and denounce anyone who disagrees with you.

Mate, do you see what you did there?

[todeen]

Well, it's Jackie Robinson day/weekend, and the Reds won. Feeling good ankit those. And the article sucked because they interviewed Probstein. And I still buy ungraded. And now I'm getting jollies out of minor league cards which seem to not be affected by current market conditions.

And although I like politics and talking politics, and talking theory, I always appreciate commentary by PerezFan and Exhibitman.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

PSA logged my card on 4/13/21 and the grade popped today 4/15/21.

I think my card jumped 10 million other cards including all of Bradley Crenshaws submissions! lol

Peace, Mike

Mike - What is the card that you were willing to shell out $300 on for grading fee?

Did it receive the grade that you had anticipated?

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Just LOL at the commentary that sports shows have no place to lay out a political and social agenda.

Fancy an industry, whose history is shrouded in denying access to people of various ethnicities and colors and religions by white hegemonic ownership, and which now wants to throw all that bigoted stuff as far as possible from its current format and offering, allowing and encouraging FULL participation by ALL, and being able to sell it's product to a very multicultural paying populace, taking a stand against practices today that still disenfranchise many due solely to past racist policy and thinking.

The very nerve of such a thought.
I love that those who are confounded by dealing with the fact their own political and social agendas are no longer acceptable cannot keep their mouths closed about it. Always better to know thine enemy.

You said it better than I ever could. My response is that athletes are still citizens and their wealth doesn't necessarily protect them from the same discrimination that other, less famous members of their community face.

[SAllen2556]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Just LOL at the commentary that sports shows have no place to lay out a political and social agenda.

Fancy an industry, whose history is shrouded in denying access to people of various ethnicities and colors and religions by white hegemonic ownership, and which now wants to throw all that bigoted stuff as far as possible from its current format and offering, allowing and encouraging FULL participation by ALL, and being able to sell it's product to a very multicultural paying populace, taking a stand against practices today that still disenfranchise many due solely to past racist policy and thinking.

The very nerve of such a thought.
I love that those who are confounded by dealing with the fact their own political and social agendas are no longer acceptable cannot keep their mouths closed about it. Always better to know thine enemy.

Sports mirrors society, right? What I've always appreciated about sports, though, is how it seems to be ahead of the curve rather than behind it, thanks to the free market aspects of it: The integration of African Americans into professional sports. Joe Louis and Jesse Owens as national heroes. Even Russians on an American hockey team. These things occurred in sports before they were generally accepted in society overall.

So politics and sports have always been intertwined. But when people hired to comment on sports like Jamele Hill and others branch away from sports commentary and into presidential politics, it risks alienating their audience - which has absolutely occurred at ESPN. And they make no attempt to offer opposing views - ever. Sorry, but that is not what I watch ESPN for.

And you imply that this point of view is racist.

"I love that those who are confounded by dealing with the fact their own political and social agendas are no longer acceptable cannot keep their mouths closed about it."

Agree with me or you're a racist. I'm so tired of this childish and intellectually lazy point of view. The fact that I don't want to listen to idiot sports commentators drone on about presidential politics doesn't mean I'm a racist.

[Exhibitman]

And just like that I thought I could escape everyday politics, attitude and such by joining a hobby board away from Facebook.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

..........

So politics and sports have always been intertwined. But when people hired to comment on sports like Jamele Hill and others branch away from sports commentary and into presidential politics, it risks alienating their audience - which has absolutely occurred at ESPN. And they make no attempt to offer opposing views - ever. Sorry, but that is not what I watch ESPN for.

She doesn't work there any longer because she was unwilling to stop potting the president openly. Others have similarly left because they were asked to tone down their political speak on air and couldn't control those impulses.
There is a difference between individuals pushing an agenda against an individual, and a generalized agenda that opposes racism in sport.

Second bolded is untrue. There have been a number of conservative voices on ESPN, including most recently Will Cain.
He chose to leave, he was not asked to, nor was he asked to stop sharing his opinions.
You might think you know the political leanings of ALL the ESPN hosts and commentators, but you don't.
There are a number, including black commentators, who lean conservative on many issues and would identify with that brand of politics such as it existed pre Trump.
The movement that brought Trump to power, including the Tea party and others, have promoted a White centric view of the world and attempted to minimize Black voices re their experiences.
That movement and the leadership of Trump, including his regular tweeting that black sportsmen should not involve themselves in politics, has resulted in a broad sweeping line from ESPN that opposes this viewpoint.

And you imply that this point of view is racist.

"I love that those who are confounded by dealing with the fact their own political and social agendas are no longer acceptable cannot keep their mouths closed about it."

Agree with me or your a racist. I'm so tired of this childish and intellectually lazy point of view. The fact that I don't want to listen to idiot sports commentators drone on about presidential politics doesn't mean I'm a racist.

There is no other view than that of the people who are telling you they are being treated in a racist manner. They are the expert, not you. The 'stupid' commentators who give platform to those views understand this.
You don't.
That's ok, you are free to exercise your viewing choices.
You are not free to tell ESPN or black athletes or their supporters they cannot do more than shoot and dribble.

I don't know what's in your heart, but I know mine.
It costs me nothing, absolutely nothing to want others to feel better about themselves and support them in that endeavor.
It doesn't offend me, doesn't take anything from me, for others to be treated better.
Sad that it seemingly costs others their mental freedom when people are chasing that dream.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Wimberleycardcollector

And just like that I thought I could escape everyday politics, attitude and such by joining a hobby board away from Facebook.

17 days into April and nearly every single post you’ve made this month has been arguing in a thread that turned political, one that even got locked. You are part of the problem.

[Baseball Fan]

It's a pretty charged climate right now, which is understandable. I guess everyone needs to do a better job of policing themselves on a hobby message board like this.

In a review of this thread, it was going fine until the Perezfan post. Let's be honest, he knew what he was doing with his post, and of course it was going to help get the hobby talk off track.

[661fish]

It's a damn shame what has happened to this great hobby. Yes, I am bitter that a good amount of cards I need to complete my vintage sets are out of my reach. It is also a joke that many cards that I do have are way overpriced because of all the new people in the hobby. It's sad that if I want to buy a blaster box at Target, I have to get in line in the middle of the night behind about 30 cockroaches and it doesn't even guaranty that I will get anything. PSA has become the necessary evil in our hobby. A company in Oregon has now done more harm to our hobby than good. Remember, we had grading before PWCC. Grading wasn't perfect and was somewhat of a scam but we could deal with it. Now we are having to live with the investor side that is driving up prices even on poor condition vintage cards. I am waiting for the dust to settle and can't wait for the greediness to bail out of the hobby. But when they do jump ship, I think it will be to late. Experience tells me that dealers will not budge on the high prices that we are seeing now. In all honesty, with all that is going right now, it has made me hate this hobby. That's what greed will do.