Likely HOFer without a rookie card

[Peter_Spaeth]

I may have posted this some time back but it continues to bother me as a HOF collector.

Everyone has to have at least one rookie card by default, right? Wrong.

Carlos Beltran had a HOF career and despite his involvement in scandal likely will eventually be voted in. But his rookie card depicts another player, one Juan Lebron. Seems Topps mixed these two young Latin prospects up, as Lebron's card depicts .. wait for it … Beltran.

To me, it's hard to call either a RC. I mean who the hell wants a rookie card depicting another player, or a card depicting a player but with someone else's name.

You can't make this up. So what's a collector to do?

[swarmee]

1995 SP Top Prospects - [Base] #111 - Carlos Beltran
Courtesy of COMC.com

Beltran's first year in the majors was 1998, with 63 plate appearances, so if you don't like prospect cards, go with a 1998 card.

1998 Leaf Rookies & Stars - [Base] #323 - Carlos Beltran
Courtesy of COMC.com

[Peter_Spaeth]

I settled on the prospects card, but not happy with it.

[Rookiemonster]

1999 finest is a pretty nice alternative

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

1999 finest is a pretty nice alternative

Nice card but on what theory?

[BearBailey]

I wouldn’t worry about Beltran getting in the hall of fame until Trammel, Grich and Rolen do, once those 3 are in Beltran might have a chance based on WAR, as far as outfielders And the eye test I would think dale Murphy, Joe Carter and Dwight Evans would get in long before Beltran.

[bigfanNY]

Beltran was a stud in the postseason I think that is the push he needs to get in. Not a first year but I do believe he gets the votes he needs over time.
J

[HRBAKER]

I think the SP Prospects card is by far the best option of the three 1995 shown in the thread. If I had to pick btw the two Topps cards, I'd go with the right picture every time. IAE, if the Topps card was correct I might like the SP better anyway.

[bcbgcbrcb]

I would like to note that there already is at least one player in the HOF whose only rookie card pictures another player, 1930’s catcher, Rick Ferrell from the 1931-32 Exhibits 4-on-1 set.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Also from 1995 and in a MLB licensed set, Topps/Bowman made the same mistake with their Bowman’s Best mirror image card w/Juan Gonzalez, identified as Juan LeBron but picturing Carlos Beltran in a different pose.

Also, using the now ever-popular First Bowman Card designation in the upper left-hand corner of the card, Beltran appears with correct photo in the 1997 Bowman set, certainly a better option than either 1998 or 1999 IMHO.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BearBailey

I wouldn’t worry about Beltran getting in the hall of fame until Trammel, Grich and Rolen do, once those 3 are in Beltran might have a chance based on WAR, as far as outfielders And the eye test I would think dale Murphy, Joe Carter and Dwight Evans would get in long before Beltran.

Trammell was elected to the HOF in 2018.

[The-Cardfather]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

Beltran was a stud in the postseason.........
J

Most Mets fans would disagree with that.

[ALR-bishop]

I would personally go with Juan, but I like off beat cards anyway and collect sets. If I collected rookie cards I think I would have all 3 of the 95s and maybe John's 98 Leaf all together in my binder and let someone else worry about which was the "real one"

[bobsbbcards]

Aurelio Rodriguez might get voted into the hall by the veterans committee. That would be funny.

[packs]

I'd go with the Juan card too. Rather have the right photo than the right name.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I'd go with the Juan card too. Rather have the right photo than the right name.

Agree, but the hobby says otherwise.

[packs]

Isn't there a Hap Felsch card that has the wrong name? That card still sells pretty well based on the image and not the name.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nice card but on what theory?

1999 is his actual rookie season. The card depicts Beltran and says rookie on it. If you don’t like that prospect card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

1999 is his actual rookie season. The card depicts Beltran and says rookie on it. If you don’t like that prospect card.

I see. Thanks. I guess my thinking now is to just stick with the prospects card, and my second choice, contrary to the verdict of the hobby, would be the Lebron card picturing Beltran. The whole thing is weird.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I see. Thanks. I guess my thinking now is to just stick with the prospects card, and my second choice, contrary to the verdict of the hobby, would be the Lebron card picturing Beltran. The whole thing is weird.

Agreed , I think that would consider the error card as his “rookie” to have. The sp 1995 you have is nice I would prefer that over the error. If it has to in 1995 then I like your choice.

[Exhibitman]

In football cards, the great Green Bay Packers fullback Jim Taylor's nominal RC is the 1959 Topps which shows Cardinals player Jim Taylor. And...wait for it...Topps did it again in 1960. The first Jim Taylor card to show Jim Taylor is the 1961 Topps card. The 1961 sells for a multiple of the 1959 or 1960 cards, so that is sort of the answer: go for the first card of the actual player.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Last I checked, the nominal Beltran card sells for way way more than the Lebron card picturing him. No clue why.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by BearBailey

I wouldn’t worry about Beltran getting in the hall of fame until Trammel, Grich and Rolen do, once those 3 are in Beltran might have a chance based on WAR, as far as outfielders And the eye test I would think dale Murphy, Joe Carter and Dwight Evans would get in long before Beltran.

I can't disagree on Evans (67.1 WAR), but Beltran's career WAR (70.1) is higher than Murphy and Carter COMBINED (46.5 + 19.6 = 66.1).

Interestingly enough, if you look up Carter's "Most similar batter" on Baseball Reference, the #1 match is Murphy (Carter is #2 on Murphy's list).

[Mike D.]

For context, all the center fielders with a higher career WAR than Beltran who are not in the Hall of Fame:

Mike Trout 74.6

That is all.

Next on the list is Kenny Lofton at 68.4, who I also think is more than qualified and I believe the highest WAR for anyone ever to go "one and done" on the ballot.

Behind them on the list in order are 5 Hall of Famers - Snider, Dawson, Ashburn, Hamilton.

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://www.hallofstats.com/player/beltrca01

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

http://www.hallofstats.com/player/beltrca01

Love me some Hall of Stats (I’m biased, as my brother runs the site, but still).

[bigfanNY]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Agree, but the hobby says otherwise.

The Hobby has a long history of valuing the name on a card vs the picture. This is an E98 with Cy Young's name and Irv Young's picture. It us not the only one there are several E sets from the same year with same Young Error. An E97 is the only one I ever owned and was not sad to see it passed on to another collection. Because I think the person pictured on the card is very important.

[HRBAKER]

What does the hobby think is more important in order:

1. The # on the flip
2. The name on the card
3. The picture on the card