Help, identify an authenticity Hologram Mickey Mantle Ted Williams paging Shelly

[MantleBham]

Can anyone help me identify this authenticity hologram? Also included the pic it's supposed to be authenticating. I just can't find a company name. I'm not an expert, but the signatures look good, in my none expert opinion.

[Mr. Zipper]

With or without the hologram, these are two common fakes.

[MantleBham]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

With or without the hologram, these are two common fakes.

That's my concern, but best I can tell, they look good.

I'm no expert and haven't seen enough to have a better than average opinion.

Williams
I look at the angle of the bottom of the T
The connector from d to w
the ll
the closed d and a
the finish of the s

Those all seem to line up

On Mantle, it's always tougher for me to tell.

They don't appear to be bananas to me
the 6 like configuration for the k e y
the two e's seem like the way he does it
the sharp upstroke from M to i with the i slightly leaning to the right

That's about all I know to check

[frankbmd]

Well, it’s

Genuine
Valid
Secure
Original
Authentic
and OK

I can’t read the seventh adjective on the hologram though.

Just based on the hologram, my vote is fake as well.

[MantleBham]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Well, it’s

Genuine
Valid
Secure
Original
Authentic
and OK

I can’t read the seventh adjective on the hologram though.

Just based on the hologram, my vote is fake as well.

Funny you say that, the hologram is the worst part! I agree completely. The last one is Q.C. Passed.

[shelly]

Looks like its from one of the companies in florida It is a real hologram

[MantleBham]

Originally Posted by shelly

Looks like its from one of the companies in florida It is a real hologram

I 100% trust you, but can you help me learn by pointing out what I missed?

I didn’t buy it, knew to come here first. Is it just too clean, and those two together?

I’m curious what on my checklist of things to look for as far as the signatures go I am not seeing.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by MantleBham

I 100% trust you, but can you help me learn by pointing out what I missed?

I didn’t buy it, knew to come here first. Is it just too clean, and those two together?

I’m curious what on my checklist of things to look for as far as the signatures go I am not seeing.

Teaching a particular autograph is not easy, but I think a process exists for 'learning' to validate any autograph;e.g-early 1950's Mantles or late-career Ruths or quickly-signed Gehrigs. You need to study, study, study, analyzing consciously what you learn after each 'lesson', then testing your memory every now and then. In each 'lesson' you learn something new and these learning points become part of your unconscious so that as you see examples of the autograph in question you are better able to unconsciously decide if it is good or not. If you can't decide quickly then it's probably a candidate for a new 'lesson';i.e-try to find similar examples, look at what's good and bad, decide if the autograph is good or bad, consciously consider what you have learned, letting your unconscious absorb the 'lesson'. You only become expert on that particular autograph over time, as the lessons sink in.

Trying to teach someone the above about a single autograph in one post is really impossible. For really bad ones you can point things out that make sense, but for others, like the above - they pass all your tests, but are obvious forgeries to experts like the guys above who responded to you. They didn't get this knowledge from someone in a single post.

[MantleBham]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Teaching a particular autograph is not easy, but I think a process exists for 'learning' to validate any autograph;e.g-early 1950's Mantles or late-career Ruths or quickly-signed Gehrigs. You need to study, study, study, analyzing consciously what you learn after each 'lesson', then testing your memory every now and then. In each 'lesson' you learn something new and these learning points become part of your unconscious so that as you see examples of the autograph in question you are better able to unconsciously decide if it is good or not. If you can't decide quickly then it's probably a candidate for a new 'lesson';i.e-try to find similar examples, look at what's good and bad, decide if the autograph is good or bad, consciously consider what you have learned, letting your unconscious absorb the 'lesson'. You only become expert on that particular autograph over time, as the lessons sink in.

Trying to teach someone the above about a single autograph in one post is really impossible. For really bad ones you can point things out that make sense, but for others, like the above - they pass all your tests, but are obvious forgeries to experts like the guys above who responded to you. They didn't get this knowledge from someone in a single post.

Of course they didn’t. I’m not a simpleton. Was just hoping to learn something.

[thetruthisoutthere]

That is a Chris "I Never Saw An Autograph I Didn't Like" Morales hologram.

Those forgeries on that image have been mass-produced in the thousands.

Laughable crap.

[MantleBham]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

That is a Chris "I Never Saw An Autograph I Didn't Like" Morales hologram.

Those forgeries on that image have been mass-produced in the thousands.

Laughable crap.

Thank you, I appreciate it, that helps.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by MantleBham

Of course they didn’t. I’m not a simpleton. Was just hoping to learn something.

Youll have a better chance if you drop the bad attitude and focus on the free help you are getting as opposed to perceived slights. My guess is that you will have to buy a few forgeries in order to learn anything.

[Steve D]

For me anyway, The "T" in Ted is too tall, and the bottom of the "W" is too high in comparison to the other letters.

On the Mantle, the top of the "k" is too rounded; it, in my view, should be more "flat"

Steve

[MantleBham]

Originally Posted by Steve D

For me anyway, The "T" in Ted is too tall, and the bottom of the "W" is too high in comparison to the other letters.

On the Mantle, the top of the "k" is too rounded; it, in my view, should be more "flat"

Steve

Thanks I appreciate it!

[MantleBham]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Youll have a better chance if you drop the bad attitude and focus on the free help you are getting as opposed to perceived slights. My guess is that you will have to buy a few forgeries in order to learn anything.

From the beginning of this thread I’ve said nothing but thank you’s to everyone.

I wasn’t rude to you was just saying that I was hoping to learn from my mistake and have said thank you to everyone who has tried to help.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by MantleBham

From the beginning of this thread I’ve said nothing but thank you’s to everyone.

I wasn’t rude to you was just saying that I was hoping to learn from my mistake and have said thank you to everyone who has tried to help.

"Learning" autographs is not easy and it doesn't happen overnight.

It's all about acquiring an "eye."

[MantleBham]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

"Learning" autographs is not easy and it doesn't happen overnight.

It's all about acquiring an "eye."

I understand, but I can’t learn without asking. The acquiring an eye does make sense, just trying to learn what else to look for.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by MantleBham

I understand, but I can’t learn without asking. The acquiring an eye does make sense, just trying to learn what else to look for.

If you, on a daily basis, study authentic Mantle autographs, your "eye" will discover what to look for.

[MantleBham]

I’ve been trying to do this on google, and will continue to. I was suspicious of the original piece I posted about because of the hologram and it just seemed too clean and mass produced.

What I couldn’t tell was how to spot the forged signatures themselves.

I’ve lurked on here for years. I think this board is fantastic and people spending their own time to prevent others from being taken advantage of is awesome, especially with all the bad things the internet is used for.

[Mr. Zipper]

Chris, you should provide the link to the common Mantle fake styles on AML. It’s a good learning tool.

(I’d do it myself but I’m on my phone and can’t find it. )

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Chris, you should provide the link to the common Mantle fake styles on AML. It’s a good learning tool.

(I’d do it myself but I’m on my phone and can’t find it. )

Great idea, Steve.

Here are some.

https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...d-how-to-avoid

https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...ment%3A1130010

https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...eball-photo-et

https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...rgery-examples

[MantleBham]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Chris, you should provide the link to the common Mantle fake styles on AML. It’s a good learning tool.

(I’d do it myself but I’m on my phone and can’t find it. )

Thanks, that’s fantastic

[MantleBham]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Great idea, Steve.

Here are some.

https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...d-how-to-avoid

https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...ment%3A1130010

https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...eball-photo-et

https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...rgery-examples

Thank you

[Fuddjcal]

Yes Mantleboom, it will become so easy that you can see it in the blink of an eye these fakes. it's like looking at those photo's with all the dots...remember those? You would stare at them for hours and then some sort of picture would show up?

Same thing with these horrid fakes. When I started, I focused on the interaction of the "M" and the "a". Also, you can study the different poses. For instance, I have NEVER seen that photo that you posted with an original signature...ONLY FAKES. Things like that can help you along as well. Good luck and please do not be fooled by those RIDICULOUS HOLOGRAMS

[MantleBham]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Yes Mantleboom, it will become so easy that you can see it in the blink of an eye these fakes. it's like looking at those photo's with all the dots...remember those? You would stare at them for hours and then some sort of picture would show up?

Same thing with these horrid fakes. When I started, I focused on the interaction of the "M" and the "a". Also, you can study the different poses. For instance, I have NEVER seen that photo that you posted with an original signature...ONLY FAKES. Things like that can help you along as well. Good luck and please do not be fooled by those RIDICULOUS HOLOGRAMS

What about this one? On phone sorry about orientation, will try to update

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by MantleBham

What about this one? On phone sorry about orientation, will try to update

Common forgery.

[MantleBham]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Common forgery.

I actually was right about this one. It’s a friend’s kept my opinion to myself.

Thank you!

[Steve D]

This is for Chris or Steve Z.....

The latest Mantle posted, is a Highland Mint piece.

Are fakes/forgeries a common/major problem with their items?

Steve

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Steve D

This is for Chris or Steve Z.....

The latest Mantle posted, is a Highland Mint piece.

Are fakes/forgeries a common/major problem with their items?

Steve

Yes, Steve. I have observed dozens of those Highland Mint pieces combined with a Mantle forgery.

[MantleBham]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Yes, Steve. I have observed dozens of those Highland Mint pieces combined with a Mantle forgery.

The Highland piece appeared like a fake to me for a few reasons, but the n resembling a u was the first thing I noticed.

More to the point, I googled it earlier this evening, before I saw these posts and it appears Highland was a straight up company; however, criminals hijacked their pieces, I assume because it offered great cover. Is that basically what happened?

As for me, I still stick the JSA, PSA DNA, stuff for myself. Just bought a Mantle JSA piece tonight on Ebay.

[NiceDocter]

Kind of funny that they might have a better chance of slipping by WITHOUT the hologram! The forgers need to get some better fake holograms to keep up.....

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by NiceDocter

Kind of funny that they might have a better chance of slipping by WITHOUT the hologram! The forgers need to get some better fake holograms to keep up.....

Has nothing to do with the hologram.

It's only about the autograph.