On this date, 78 years ago, "The Great One" was born...

[thekingofclout]

and on this coming New Years Eve, it will mark the 40th year of Roberto Clemente's untimely death.

Boy, could Baseball really use another like you, Roberto.

clementewingfield.jpgclementeEMMONS1.jpg

[barrysloate]

Jimmy- today is also the 50th anniversary of a day you will appreciate:

On August 18, 1962 the Beatles played a gig at a venue called Hulme Hall. Nothing special about that, but it was their first engagement with their new drummer, Ringo Starr. Ringo debuted with the Beatles, 50 years ago today....

[Mark]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

and on this coming New Years Eve, it will mark the 40th year of Roberto Clemente's untimely death.

Boy, could Baseball really use another like you, Roberto.

Attachment 71719Attachment 71720

I remembered, too. And I really like that photo on the right. Where is it from?

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by Mark

I remembered, too. And I really like that photo on the right. Where is it from?

Candlestick Park, Mark. c. 1966 by one of the top post-war photographers, Malcolm Emmons.

[packs]

Always like showing this one. Signed during his rookie season.

[Mark]

the day I got this one in person.

[MacDice]

Wayne Gretzky was born 78 years ago? He looks pretty good for his age.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by MacDice

Wayne Gretzky was born 78 years ago? He looks pretty good for his age.

Who is Wayne Gretzky? Minor league ump?

[GrayGhost]

Originally Posted by MacDice

Wayne Gretzky was born 78 years ago? He looks pretty good for his age.

Roberto was GREAT, but nobody I know calls him the GREAT ONE. KOC mislead the readers of this thread. h a

[z28jd]

I posted this today for the blog I write for and I never really looked into this aspect of his time with the team. I went through all the newspapers online and looked at the reactions of people around the country and around baseball one the day the Pirates drafted him. I think the Pittsburgh reaction is real interesting as well the cities removed from the two teams involved(Pirates/Dodgers). People in Pittsburgh definitely call him the Great One, you will get "Wayne who" reactions there for sure

http://blogs.piratesprospects.com/hi...h-the-pirates/

[thekingofclout]

Good read John. Here was Roberto showing he could also play a little defense, as he robs Pee Wee Reese of extra bases in the summer of '55.

CLEMENTEcatch1955.jpg

John, I picked up this "Pittsburgh Signing Clemente" original letter a few years ago. It came with a typed duplicate copy of the request letter (which I have). This shows that there is no question of how much the bonus was that the Dodgers paid Clemente.

ClementeLetter.jpg

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by MacDice

Wayne Gretzky was born 78 years ago? He looks pretty good for his age.

I thought it was about Jackie Gleason.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

Roberto was GREAT, but nobody I know calls him the GREAT ONE. KOC mislead the readers of this thread. h a

Well Scott. Obviously, you just don't know that many people.

BTW... This book by Bruce Markusen was a great read that any Clemente fan would enjoy.

ClementeBOOK.jpg

[Mark]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

Roberto was GREAT, but nobody I know calls him the GREAT ONE. KOC mislead the readers of this thread. h a

You obviously don't know anyone who saw him play. You should do a little research before you say things that would detract from the memory of a remarkable man.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by Mark

the day I got this one in person.

Boy Mark. WHAT A BALL! Talk about a moment that will live with you forever! How did it come about? Before a game or after? Details Mark, details!

I went with my Little League Team to a game in the late 60s at Dodger Stadium and we were stuck in the right field pavilion (which is perfect for 9 & 10 year old kids!). Well, I couldn't take my eyes off of him the whole game! That was it for me. Although I trimmed down on my collection, the three photos and the letter I posted, are what I've kept. Am on the lookout for a signed personalized "To Jimmy/Jim" piece to add to my others. It will come.

[z28jd]

Love that picture and the contract! Thanks for sharing it

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

Good read John. Here was Roberto showing he could also play a little defense, as he robs Pee Wee Reese of extra bases in the summer of '55.

Attachment 71786

John, I picked up this "Pittsburgh Signing Clemente" original letter a few years ago. It came with a typed duplicate copy of the request letter (which I have). This shows that there is no question of how much the bonus was that the Dodgers paid Clemente.

Attachment 71787

[Mark]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

Boy Mark. WHAT A BALL! Talk about a moment that will live with you forever! How did it come about? Before a game or after? Details Mark, details!

I went with my Little League Team to a game in the late 60s at Dodger Stadium and we were stuck in the right field pavilion (which is perfect for 9 & 10 year old kids!). Well, I couldn't take my eyes off of him the whole game! That was it for me. Although I trimmed down on my collection, the three photos and the letter I posted, are what I've kept. Am on the lookout for a signed personalized "To Jimmy/Jim" piece to add to my others. It will come.

I was 9 or 10 and at Forbes Field in 67 or 68. Before the game, I was watching some of the Bucs play pepper along the right field line when Jerry May fouled that ball into the stands and right at my feet. I got some signitures during the game, but I was waiting for Roberto at the clubhouse door after the game ended. He came out with his own black pen and signed it on the sweetspot.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by Mark

I was 9 or 10 and at Forbes Field in 67 or 68. Before the game, I was watching some of the Bucs play pepper along the right field line when Jerry May fouled that ball into the stands and right at my feet. I got some signitures during the game, but I was waiting for Roberto at the clubhouse door after the game ended. He came out with his own black pen and signed it on the sweetspot.

What a terrific story to go along with your priceless ball, Mark! It's these kind of memories that fuels our passion to collect.

[GrayGhost]

Man, you guys need to stop being so sensitive, I tell ya. I saw Roberto play a little as a kid, and have seen PLENTY of his ability on film and KNOW HE WAS GREAT.

IN MY EXPERIENCE, when someone says "The Great one" and associates it w an athlete, it relates to Wayne Gretzky.

There was CERTAINLY NO INTENTION to take away from Roberto's memoryIf the post I made, which was a joke to start, bugs you that much, I can only wish my problems were as small as that..Geez

Scott Roberts

[MacDice]

If you were to ask people (sports fans and non-sport fans) who the “Great One” is, the overwhelming response is going to be Wayne Gretzky. No question about it.

Now I am going to open up a can of worms and get ripped apart by Pirate, Dodger and Yankee fans. I think how we perceive players is based upon the era we grew up and the geographical location. I did not grow up in the 1960’s nor am I from the Pittsburgh area but to me Roberto Clemente never really did much for me. Yes he was a very, very, good player but I don’t view him in as high of regard as others (I will take Willie Mays, Hank Aaron and Mickey Mantle over him any day). I often wondered if he would have just retired after getting his 3000 hit or if he would have played a few more years and fans would have seen his skills deteriorate (the way it did with Willie Mays) rather than dying the way he did if the perception of him would be different. Did his tragic death cause his perception level to be taken to the next level?

The same thing goes for Thurman Munson who a lot of people believe should be a Hall of Famer. Had he not died in the plane crash and played his career out would he be regarded in a different light? Would he been seen as the level of a Jason Vartiek or would he have been on a level of Carlton Fisk? If Sandy Koufax had played in the 1980’s and had his career shortened for the same reason, would modern voters for the Hall of Fame say that he had 5 great seasons but did not have the longevity or the “counting” stats to be elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame?

[egbeachley]

I also thought of Gretzky. But knowing he was not 78 years old I racked my brain trying to figure out who it was. Clemente was never a consideration. I never heard anyone call him that.

[Mark]

Ok, if you want to troll in a thread intended to honor the late, great Roberto, so be it. Roberto was called "the Great One." He sometimes jokingly referred to himself as "the Great Roberto." The fact that Alexander son of Philip was called the "Great One" back in 350 bc doesn't mean that others weren't called "the Great One" in their lifetimes. Now, what difference does it make if some people think that a hockey player is "the great one?" Maybe you guys think that only Gretzky deserves the name. Maybe the issue that you want to raise is whether Clemente was, in fact, a great baseball player. If you consult what experienced and intelligent baseball people thought about him, you will learn that he was a magnificent outfielder who played with a rare combination of grace and intensity. During the mid to late 1960's, he had some terrific seasons as a fielder and as a hitter. Playing in spacious Forbes Field in a league dominated by great pitching, he had some very impressive offensive stats. From 64-69, he averaged an overall WAR of 7.66 while Mays, during the same period, averaged a WAR of 7.28. Aaron averaged 7.46 for those years. Sure, Mays was older and had had even more astounding totals in earlier years, but the point is that during that era Clemente was an extraordinary player, a true baller, who ranked among the very best in the game. Having given you guys some reasons why he was called the Great One, I have to say that I thnk it is truly obnoxous for people to turn a thread that is meant to honor the memory of the late, great Roberto into a debate about whether he is worthy of a nickname. Does he get a lot of extra attention because he was Puerto Rican and because he died in a noble effort to help earthquake victims? Of course. But neither of those reason would account for why he was called the Great One in his lifetime. If anybody is more interested in learning why he was called this than in asserting that he didn't deserve it, I recommend the Maraniss biography or the Markusen.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Mark

Ok, if you want to troll in a thread intended to honor the late, great Roberto, so be it. Roberto was called "the Great One." He sometimes jokingly referred to himself as "the Great Roberto." The fact that Alexander son of Philip was called the "Great One" back in 350 bc doesn't mean that others weren't called "the Great One" in their lifetimes. Now, what difference does it make if some people think that a hockey player is "the great one?" Maybe you guys think that only Gretzky deserves the name. Maybe the issue that you want to raise is whether Clemente was, in fact, a great baseball player. If you consult what experienced and intelligent baseball people thought about him, you will learn that he was a magnificent outfielder who played with a rare combination of grace and intensity. During the mid to late 1960's, he had some terrific seasons as a fielder and as a hitter. Playing in spacious Forbes Field in a league dominated by great pitching, he had some very impressive offensive stats. From 64-69, he averaged an overall WAR of 7.66 while Mays, during the same period, averaged a WAR of 7.28. Aaron averaged 7.46 for those years. Sure, Mays was older and had had even more astounding totals in earlier years, but the point is that during that era Clemente was an extraordinary player, a true baller, who ranked among the very best in the game. Having given you guys some reasons why he was called the Great One, I have to say that I thnk it is truly obnoxous for people to turn a thread that is meant to honor the memory of the late, great Roberto into a debate about whether he is worthy of a nickname. Does he get a lot of extra attention because he was Puerto Rican and because he died in a noble effort to help earthquake victims? Of course. But neither of those reason would account for why he was called the Great One in his lifetime. If anybody is more interested in learning why he was called this than in asserting that he didn't deserve it, I recommend the Maraniss biography or the Markusen.

Well said

[MacDice]

Just because I have a slightly difference opinion on your favorite player does not mean the I am "trolling." Without a doubt the world would be a better place if we had more people with the strong moral beliefs that Roberto had. Also why does it mater if he was from Puetro Rico? His outstanding playing ability, strong moral beliefs and countless charity acts have nothing to do with his ethnicity. Judge a man on what he is (or was) not on where he was from.

[packs]

Maybe you should not post in this thread.

[71buc]

Originally Posted by MacDice

Just because I have a slightly difference opinion on your favorite player does not mean the I am "trolling." Without a doubt the world would be a better place if we had more people with the strong moral beliefs that Roberto had. Also why does it mater if he was from Puetro Rico? His outstanding playing ability, strong moral beliefs and countless charity acts have nothing to do with his ethnicity. Judge a man on what he is (or was) not on where he was from.

For fans with latin ancestory like myself he is our Jackie Robinson. His ethnicity is as important to who he was as it is to who Robinson was. These two men are more than mere baseball players. Clemente transcends baseball. He embodied grace, compassion, honor, and pride. In the Maraniss biography I recall that he states reducing Clemente to statistics is like a chemist explaining the beauty of a painting by merely analyzing the paint. In my opinion he is the patron saint of baseball. I grew up in a home where Spanish was spoken. You have no idea the pride we felt when he spoke in Spanish after the 1971 Series. I was a child when he died. I still remember falling to my knees in utter shock when I heard the announcement on the radio. I was inconsolable for a week; I even vowed to name my first born son after him. Eighteen years later I kept that promise.

My favorite Clemente quotes.
''Any time you have an opportunity to make a difference in this world and you don't, then you are wasting your time on Earth.”

“I want to be remembered as a ballplayer who gave all I had to give.”

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by MacDice

Just because I have a slightly difference opinion on your favorite player does not mean the I am "trolling." Without a doubt the world would be a better place if we had more people with the strong moral beliefs that Roberto had. Also why does it mater if he was from Puetro Rico? His outstanding playing ability, strong moral beliefs and countless charity acts have nothing to do with his ethnicity. Judge a man on what he is (or was) not on where he was from.

Not well said

[MacDice]

Originally Posted by 71buc

For fans with latin ancestory like myself he is our Jackie Robinson. His ethnicity is as important to who he was as it is to who Robinson was. These two men are more than mere baseball players. Clemente transcends baseball. He embodied grace, compassion, honor, and pride. In the Maraniss biography I recall that he states reducing Clemente to statistics is like a chemist explaining the beauty of a painting by merely analyzing the paint. In my opinion he is the patron saint of baseball. I grew up in a home where Spanish was spoken. You have no idea the pride we felt when he spoke in Spanish after the 1971 Series. I was a child when he died. I still remember falling to my knees in utter shock when I heard the announcement on the radio. I was inconsolable for a week; I even vowed to name my first born son after him. Eighteen years later I kept that promise.

My favorite Clemente quotes.
''Any time you have an opportunity to make a difference in this world and you don't, then you are wasting your time on Earth.”

“I want to be remembered as a ballplayer who gave all I had to give.”

Good post, well put. He was a great source of pride for his native country and he should have been. His true value to humanity however should not be limited to one culture it should be embraced by all. It is a shame that we will never know how big of an effect on society that he would have had should he had been given more time on this planet.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

I also thought of Gretzky. But knowing he was not 78 years old

You're 100% correct Ed. When I was writing the title, I paused and thought... should I change this, so there's no confusion with Gretzky? And than I realized that only a complete moron could possibly think that Gretzky is 78 years old. Turns out I was absolutely right.

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by 71buc

For fans with latin ancestory like myself he is our Jackie Robinson. His ethnicity is as important to who he was as it is to who Robinson was. These two men are more than mere baseball players. Clemente transcends baseball. He embodied grace, compassion, honor, and pride. In the Maraniss biography I recall that he states reducing Clemente to statistics is like a chemist explaining the beauty of a painting by merely analyzing the paint. In my opinion he is the patron saint of baseball. I grew up in a home where Spanish was spoken. You have no idea the pride we felt when he spoke in Spanish after the 1971 Series. I was a child when he died. I still remember falling to my knees in utter shock when I heard the announcement on the radio. I was inconsolable for a week; I even vowed to name my first born son after him. Eighteen years later I kept that promise.

My favorite Clemente quotes.
''Any time you have an opportunity to make a difference in this world and you don't, then you are wasting your time on Earth.”

“I want to be remembered as a ballplayer who gave all I had to give.”

Thank-you for sharing that story.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by 71buc

For fans with latin ancestory like myself he is our Jackie Robinson. His ethnicity is as important to who he was as it is to who Robinson was. These two men are more than mere baseball players. Clemente transcends baseball. He embodied grace, compassion, honor, and pride. In the Maraniss biography I recall that he states reducing Clemente to statistics is like a chemist explaining the beauty of a painting by merely analyzing the paint. In my opinion he is the patron saint of baseball. I grew up in a home where Spanish was spoken. You have no idea the pride we felt when he spoke in Spanish after the 1971 Series. I was a child when he died. I still remember falling to my knees in utter shock when I heard the announcement on the radio. I was inconsolable for a week; I even vowed to name my first born son after him. Eighteen years later I kept that promise.

My favorite Clemente quotes.
''Any time you have an opportunity to make a difference in this world and you don't, then you are wasting your time on Earth.”

“I want to be remembered as a ballplayer who gave all I had to give.”

Mike. I am moved how you are able to show just how much Roberto meant to all Latin people regardless of where they lived, in so few words. Really touching Mike. Thank you so much for sharing. Sincerely, Jimmy

[71buc]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

Mike. I am moved how you are able to show just how much Roberto meant to all Latin people regardless of where they lived, in so few words. Really touching Mike. Thank you so much for sharing. Sincerely, Jimmy

Thanks Jimmy I pray that the current generation produces a man like Roberto no matter his race or nationality. We need him now more than ever.

[GKreindler]

Really enjoying this thread, dammit.

And now I'm kicking myself for not having any Roberto Clemente painting in any form to work on. Shame on me.

Graig

[WhenItWasAHobby]

There's no question in my mind Clemente was truly one of the greatest players in the game and Pirate announcer Bob Prince repeatedly referred to Clemente as "The Great One".

On a personal note, the first major league game I ever saw was the Pirates vs. the Reds on July 8, 1967 at Forbes Field. I was fortunate to see one of the most amazing plays in the history of the game. In the top of the 7th inning, Lee May for the Reds hit a lead off triple. The next batter struck out. The third batter hit a one-hop, bloop single in front of Clemente, and the runner on third, May, held up momentarily to make sure the ball wasn't going to be caught on the fly, but ran home as soon as the ball hit the ground. On a one-hop single, Clemente threw Lee May out at the plate with a throw that had rifle-like trajectory, and the play at the plate wasn't even that close. Needless to say, the place went wild for several minutes. That's one play I'll never forget as long as I live. Clemente was amazing!

Check the play-by-play in the top of the 7th.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bo...96707080.shtml

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

There's no question in my mind Clemente was truly one of the greatest players in the game and Pirate announcer Bob Prince repeatedly referred to Clemente as "The Great One".

On a personal note, the first major league game I ever saw was the Pirates vs. the Reds on July 8, 1967 at Forbes Field. I was fortunate to see one of the most amazing plays in the history of the game. In the top of the 7th inning, Lee May for the Reds hit a lead off triple. The next batter struck out. The third batter hit a one-hop, bloop single in front of Clemente, and the runner on third, May, held up momentarily to make sure the ball wasn't going to be caught on the fly, but ran home as soon as the ball hit the ground. On a one-hop single, Clemente threw Lee May out at the plate with a throw that had rifle-like trajectory, and the play at the plate wasn't even that close. Needless to say, the place went wild for several minutes. That's one play I'll never forget as long as I live. Clemente was amazing!

Check the play-by-play in the top of the 7th.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bo...96707080.shtml

What a thrill that must have been, Dan! I forgot to mention in my earlier post, that the first time I saw "Arriba" play, was also my first big league ball game!

Here's a very short bio that's well worth the 3 minutes to watch it. Especially if you're not a big fan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbltQjJk0Bo

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

What a thrill that must have been, Dan! I forgot to mention in my earlier post, that the first time I saw "Arriba" play, was also my first big league ball game!

Here's a very short bio that's well worth the 3 minutes to watch it. Especially if you're not a big fan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbltQjJk0Bo

Thanks for the link to the video. I love watching old footage of Clemente!

I saw a movie not too long ago called "Chasing 3000". It's supposedly a true story about some boys who moved from Pittsbrugh to California and then ran away back to Pittsburgh so that they could see Clemente get his 3,000th hit. It has some highlight movies of Clemente and even some of his baseball cards. It's not a great movie, but a very good one.

[mybestbretts]

The photos are great

[alanu]

I think the one photo is used as a basis for the background on his 1956 topps card, if this hasn't already been mentioned.

Clemente and the Pirates were my favorite in my very younger years.

[thekingofclout]

Sept. 30th marked the 40th Anniversary of The Great One's 3,000 and Final Hit.

I wanted to share this link with all you Clemente fans. If I ever get to Pittsburgh, this Clemente Museum and a visit to PNC Park would be the main attractions, for me anyway.

This is a really cool site... http://www.clementemuseum.com/

And of course, Clemente's Statue outside PNC Park. Nice to see the artist gave it the appropriate name...

the-great-one.jpg

[Forever Young]

The great one.... died...





45 years ago Clemente died tragically delivering aid. Attached is a type 1 snapper in Nicaragua with his handwriting on the back.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Mark

You obviously don't know anyone who saw him play. You should do a little research before you say things that would detract from the memory of a remarkable man.

Funny... but you had no problem calling Wayne Gretzky a "minor League ump" though? With all due respect Mark... Are you really this much of a hypocrite???
There's nothing wrong with honouring the great man and player Clemente was... but no need to bash others to do it.