Misrepresentation

[Edwolf1963]

Last month, I bid and won a couple of 1914 CJ's from this seller (link below) on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110996395625...84.m1497.l2649

..or so I thought, this one turned out to be a 1915 - which I didn't notice until a month later when I cracked it out. I hate PSA qualifiers - more useless than the BCCG program IMO, I was going to resubmit to SGC. Part of me was mad at myself as I should have looked at the scan more closely. Also mad for cracking it out, I don't collect 1915's. I didn't think it was that big of a deal until I checked the VCP and found the difference was over $100. Basically I paid $155 for a card that's hovering around a $50 value.

I thought I'd at least write to the seller and advise, may have been a typo - although noted as "1914" in a couple places. I made note that I had cracked it out and why, not looking for full refund.

No response.

I wrote again, still taking the high road in assuming it was a typo, appealing to sense of fairness, asked if we could resolve something mutually acceptable? Suggesting difference in price between 1914 PSA2 and 1915 PSA2 (no MK noted in VCP), or perhaps I send back, pay for a regrade and assume full responsibility if it doesn't get at least the 2MK back.

No response.

I filed a case w/eBay, he escalated it to eBay to resolve - came down to me cracking it out, so I am S.O.L. At no point responding to me in any way.

I get it that I cracked it out and share some "blame" here, but what eats at me is that he misrepresented the card, pulls $100 more than it should of, doesn't respond to anything and eBay backs him!

If it were me on the other side and it was a typo on my part that inadvertently drove a much higher price, I would have tripped all over myself apologizing and seeing what I could do with the buyer to resolve. Wouldn't you - if you made an honest mistake??

The ignoring, hoping it will go away, not responding at all other than to escalate within eBay and then eBay playing CYA made me feel this was done with intent to deceive and hope to gain.

Respectful of opinions here. Mine is just to vent

[novakjr]

Was the scan there when you bid? Regardless of what the listing says, the slab does say 1915.. I'm honestly not trying to be a d!ck.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Edwolf1963

this one turned out to be a 1915 - which I didn't notice until a month later when I cracked it out.

A month later? I noticed the 1915 slab the second I opened the eBay link.

[Edwolf1963]

No worries David, not being a dick .. it was there, my bad .. that's what made me more mad at myself. And Daryl, yes, easy to see picture/slab that it's a 1915 - I just focused on the title in the auction (via sorting on eBay) and the pic of the card itself. When I received, it came with another 1914 (this one was a 1914), I glanced, put them in a bin to hold them and didn't think anything of it.

[4815162342]

That's a tough situation Ed. If only you would have noticed it prior to cracking the card out...

[Edwolf1963]

You're right, Daryl - that one I was kicking myself on. And part of me thought not even to write, just let it go - my bad in not noticing, caveat emptor, etc. I guess I sort of got in the "me" mode a bit and thought I'd at least let the Seller know. Perhaps he'd come back and apologize, not intended, maybe talk about trade back, something workable? Thinking if it were me, honestly, that's what I'd do - especially if I made a f-up in the listing. The ignoring, no replies started eating away at me - just felt like "too bad, you bought it, I made out - you're stuck with it" sort of thing.

Again, I do appreciate and respect opinions here. Too easy to fall into the how it made me feel, look at it from my perspective thing. That's why I posted here.

Thanks for your feedback!

[honus94566]

Have 45 days passed since you paid? If not, there is still time to file a paypal dispute on the transaction. IMO the seller should accept a refund of the card.

[Edwolf1963]

Thanks, Dave - I filed that, he never replied to me in the ideas I suggested for resolution, something mutually acceptable - he just escalated it to eBay to resolve. They ruled in his favor bcse. I had cracked the card out of the holder.

He never said a word admitting it was a mistake or intentional. No repercussion for misleading item description.

[bobbyw8469]

IMO the seller should accept a refund of the card.

IMO the seller SHOULD NOT accept a refund of the card. It is not in the same condition as when he sent it out (ie, it is not in a grading companies case).

I was totally on your side until you cracked it out. Once you cracked it out, all bets are off. ALL of the grading companies (PSA, SGC, even CGC for comics) have warranties that entail the case being non-compromised. Once you compromised the case, as much as I hate to say it, you are own your own!

[t206fix]

I'm on your side Ed. The tag clearly says 1914 - and the assumption is that you were buying a 1914. Tough situation when you crack it out though - I am sure that you would have gotten a full refund if you didn't crack it, but a good seller would have gotten back to you and at least apologized. But as you said, the misrepresentation in the title drove the price up to the point where at least two of you were paying way over what you would have had you know it wasn't a '14. You should have shipped it back to PSA for a reholder $5 fee, and then returned it. He wouldn't have a case then!

Just my two cents,

Tony

[bobbyw8469]

I'm on your side Ed. The tag clearly says 1914

The case says 1915. The seller stated 1914. The seller worded it wrong, but a picture is worth a 1,000 words. So many items on Ebay are mislabeled, that there is a group of people that actually prey on those items hoping to snag great deals. I always pay alot more attention to the pics that a sellers words. Helps me out in looking for fakes, and 2nd edition books that sellers are claiming as first editions.

[teetwoohsix]

What it is Ed, is that you are just wanting to be treated the way you treat other people and this seller obviously doesn't do things like you do. I can say that you are one of the best people to deal with on the board and you are a top notch seller- you wouldn't handle the situation the way this seller did, if it were the other way around. I'm guessing it's more the principle (with you) than the $$. I hope it works out & sorry this happened to you.

Sincerely, Clayton

[Edwolf1963]

Thanks, Clayton, all - that's what it really comes down to is treating others as I would want to be aspect. A good business transaction is when both sides feel good about it, not when "got away" with something. Even if he came back and said little more that "my bad, sorry.." and did nothing else, I probably wouldn't have had such an issue. The ignoring, no respond, hope it will go away crap lends a lot to the perception that it was done with intent.

Can't argue w/you Bobby, eBay saw it the same way - - I wasn't looking for full refund though. eBay gives you few options you'd like to see such as keeping the card, full or partial refund. I indicated I was open to working something out, admitting that I cracked it out and open to most anything. They never read that part, just saying full refund is not approved. Even after I said that's not what I was looking for, literally noting "I don't deserve that and not what I am looking for", they denied appeal saying "sorry you had a bad experience, we cannot approve full refund"

Anyway, need to move on/let it go, but appreciate the feedback just the same. Lesson learned to pay more attention to the scans before sniping.

Clayton, again, thank you for the kind feedback! Experiences in working deals with you and everyone on this board have all been positive!

Ed

[Ease]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

What it is Ed, is that you are just wanting to be treated the way you treat other people and this seller obviously doesn't do things like you do. I can say that you are one of the best people to deal with on the board and you are a top notch seller- you wouldn't handle the situation the way this seller did, if it were the other way around. I'm guessing it's more the principle (with you) than the $$. I hope it works out & sorry this happened to you.

Sincerely, Clayton

+1

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Edwolf1963

Last month, I bid and won a couple of 1914 CJ's from this seller (link below) on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110996395625...84.m1497.l2649

..or so I thought, this one turned out to be a 1915 - which I didn't notice until a month later when I cracked it out. I hate PSA qualifiers - more useless than the BCCG program IMO, I was going to resubmit to SGC. Part of me was mad at myself as I should have looked at the scan more closely. Also mad for cracking it out, I don't collect 1915's. I didn't think it was that big of a deal until I checked the VCP and found the difference was over $100. Basically I paid $155 for a card that's hovering around a $50 value.

I thought I'd at least write to the seller and advise, may have been a typo - although noted as "1914" in a couple places. I made note that I had cracked it out and why, not looking for full refund.

No response.

I wrote again, still taking the high road in assuming it was a typo, appealing to sense of fairness, asked if we could resolve something mutually acceptable? Suggesting difference in price between 1914 PSA2 and 1915 PSA2 (no MK noted in VCP), or perhaps I send back, pay for a regrade and assume full responsibility if it doesn't get at least the 2MK back.

No response.

I filed a case w/eBay, he escalated it to eBay to resolve - came down to me cracking it out, so I am S.O.L. At no point responding to me in any way.

I get it that I cracked it out and share some "blame" here, but what eats at me is that he misrepresented the card, pulls $100 more than it should of, doesn't respond to anything and eBay backs him!

If it were me on the other side and it was a typo on my part that inadvertently drove a much higher price, I would have tripped all over myself apologizing and seeing what I could do with the buyer to resolve. Wouldn't you - if you made an honest mistake??

The ignoring, hoping it will go away, not responding at all other than to escalate within eBay and then eBay playing CYA made me feel this was done with intent to deceive and hope to gain.

Respectful of opinions here. Mine is just to vent

I do this often as I do not have a lot of time to treasure hunt and I wind up making mistakes like this while buying. Don't beat yourself up too much, you just have to eat it and move on. If you didn't bust it then maybe as a seller I would have accepted it back after a month but popped out, I don't think you can expect to return it. Dan.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

What it is Ed, is that you are just wanting to be treated the way you treat other people and this seller obviously doesn't do things like you do. I can say that you are one of the best people to deal with on the board and you are a top notch seller- you wouldn't handle the situation the way this seller did, if it were the other way around. I'm guessing it's more the principle (with you) than the $$. I hope it works out & sorry this happened to you.

Sincerely, Clayton

+2! If I were the seller, I would have been all apologetic and refunded you fully, or worked something else out to your satisfaction. Another indication that this misrepresentation may have been intentional is that the seller did not include a pic of the back of this card in his eBay listing.
Val

[calvindog]

The card can't be refunded because it was cracked out; that being said, the seller misrepresented the card in his listing and should refund some of the purchase price.

[glynparson]

Completed auctions show he did have 3 legitimate 1914 CJs listed seems like an honest mistake. How could you not notice before cracking it out? I think you need to just chalk it up to a mistake by the seller and then a mistake by you, accept some responsibility for your actions and move on. Also he has no back scans of any cards so it seems like a major stretch to suggest he was being shady. Not everyone that sells cards has the knowledge of some of us on this board.

[Leon]

I had the exact same type thing happen a few months ago. I bought a card listed as a V351 (I think). I got it and there was a tear in it. I put a tiny piece of archival tape on the otherwise blank back (not an expensive card to start with). Then when I was cataloging it I found it was different dimensions. It was a different type card with the same pose and had been described and listed incorrectly on ebay. I asked the seller about a refund and they said since I put a tiny piece of tape (archival, not that it mattered to them) on the blank back they couldn't help me. I just chalked it up...but thought it was kind of crappy of the seller. They did have it listed incorrectly and the tiny piece of tape helped the card stay together. But I took responsibility and moved on.

[Publius]

If an auction title says PSA 8, and the scan shows a PSA 8 OC and I buy it, who's to blame?

It's cracked out now so you own it man, chalk p the $100 as a cheap lesson.

[kcohen]

I think many here would agree that, if the seller had any integrity which appears to not be the case, a solomonic solution of a $50 refund would have been appropriate.

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Completed auctions show he did have 3 legitimate 1914 CJs listed seems like an honest mistake. How could you not notice before cracking it out? I think you need to just chalk it up to a mistake by the seller and then a mistake by you, accept some responsibility for your actions and move on. Also he has no back scans of any cards so it seems like a major stretch to suggest he was being shady. Not everyone that sells cards has the knowledge of some of us on this board.

Actually, looking at his feedback, he sold 4 "1914" PSA Cracker Jacks. Two were 1914 and two were 1915 (the other was Louis Evans for $156.38), so Ed, you weren't the only one who got fooled by the year.

[Prof_Plum]

delete

[mcadams]

Originally Posted by cardboardbliss

You should have shipped it back to PSA for a reholder $5 fee, and then returned it. He wouldn't have a case then!

Just my two cents,

Tony

Yes, the seller would still have a case and would likely still win the Ebay dispute. Because, just like what really happened, you wouldn't be returning the card in the same condition as when the buyer received it.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Edwolf1963

If it were me on the other side and it was a typo on my part that inadvertently drove a much higher price, I would have tripped all over myself apologizing and seeing what I could do with the buyer to resolve.

Ed,

I truly believe that you would.

I know we do not leave "feedback" on Net54; however, want to take this opportunity to say that the transactions you and I have conducted through the B/S/T have been overwhelmingly positive experiences. I find you to be a great seller and a stand-up guy.

Sorry to hear that you had a suboptimal experience with a seller that did not communicate as well as he/she could have.

Best Regards,

Eric

[glynparson]

He sold 5 cracker jacks not 4, 2 mislabeled,again it seems to be a mistake most people do not have our knowledge of cards wether they should or not. I feel the buyer made as much of an error as the seller and should accept his error and move on. I refuse to lay blame solely on the seller for a mistake while giving the buyer a pass and like some others have said had you just looked at the scan and not just bought the holder the problem would have been avoided.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by Edwolf1963

Thanks, Clayton, all - that's what it really comes down to is treating others as I would want to be aspect. A good business transaction is when both sides feel good about it, not when "got away" with something. Even if he came back and said little more that "my bad, sorry.." and did nothing else, I probably wouldn't have had such an issue. The ignoring, no respond, hope it will go away crap lends a lot to the perception that it was done with intent.

Can't argue w/you Bobby, eBay saw it the same way - - I wasn't looking for full refund though. eBay gives you few options you'd like to see such as keeping the card, full or partial refund. I indicated I was open to working something out, admitting that I cracked it out and open to most anything. They never read that part, just saying full refund is not approved. Even after I said that's not what I was looking for, literally noting "I don't deserve that and not what I am looking for", they denied appeal saying "sorry you had a bad experience, we cannot approve full refund"

Anyway, need to move on/let it go, but appreciate the feedback just the same. Lesson learned to pay more attention to the scans before sniping.

Clayton, again, thank you for the kind feedback! Experiences in working deals with you and everyone on this board have all been positive!

Ed

Hey, no problem Ed- I've had many great dealings with you and hope to have many more over the years. It's always been a smooth transaction and positive experience.

"He sold 5 cracker jacks not 4, 2 mislabeled,again it seems to be a mistake most people do not have our knowledge of cards wether they should or not. I feel the buyer made as much of an error as the seller and should accept his error and move on. I refuse to lay blame solely on the seller for a mistake while giving the buyer a pass and like some others have said had you just looked at the scan and not just bought the holder the problem would have been avoided."

I don't think Ed ever solely laid the blame on the seller, he acknowledged his mistakes- and I'm sure he's moved on. I think he just expected the seller to be willing to work with him (maybe a discount of some kind) because if the item wasn't misrepresented, Ed may not have even looked at the listing. And, if the shoe was on the other foot, Ed is the type of guy who WOULD make it to where both parties walked away happy.

Sincerely, Clayton

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Hey, no problem Ed- I've had many great dealings with you and hope to have many more over the years. It's always been a smooth transaction and positive experience.

"He sold 5 cracker jacks not 4, 2 mislabeled,again it seems to be a mistake most people do not have our knowledge of cards wether they should or not. I feel the buyer made as much of an error as the seller and should accept his error and move on. I refuse to lay blame solely on the seller for a mistake while giving the buyer a pass and like some others have said had you just looked at the scan and not just bought the holder the problem would have been avoided."

I don't think Ed ever solely laid the blame on the seller, he acknowledged his mistakes- and I'm sure he's moved on. I think he just expected the seller to be willing to work with him (maybe a discount of some kind) because if the item wasn't misrepresented, Ed may not have even looked at the listing. And, if the shoe was on the other foot, Ed is the type of guy who WOULD make it to where both parties walked away happy.

Sincerely, Clayton

Well put, Clayton and you are spot on with your analysis of what Ed was explaining in this thread.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

Well put, Clayton and you are spot on with your analysis of what Ed was explaining in this thread.

Thanks Mike

Sincerely, Clayton

[Edwolf1963]

Thank you Clayton, Mike - appreciate the feedback! .. And to everyone for your feedback, opinion. Just wanted to vent a bit and get some feedback :-)