T206 Krause Scrap Insane!!

[mrvster]

I am very excited to post a new find......and thank two collector fellow/friend board members who were able to decicher the card( who,btw, are extremely modest , intelligent, and downright solid people in my book always) and get it into my collection. as most of u know, i think i'm obsessed with these freaks...i am constantly looking for printer t206 one-of-a kinds basically, in my quest one day to possibly trade all of them for wagz.....phew...sorry, just excited...

anyway, i was excited to pick up this new scrap, that i thought just had some random ink/ect until closer inspection....i sent scans to a well known expert in the field, and he almost immediitely figured it out....

CAN U??

What's up with my scrap????


if u guess, then u are sharp!! i will post the scans if no one figures out right away....


so kewl...and man i am stoked

[drc]

"Is it insane? Or is it so sane it blows your mind?" -- Kramer

[atx840]

Great super freak....well deserved pickup!

Congrats Johnny, Look at those White borders

[MVSNYC]

nice!

is the overprint jack white?

[wazoo]

What an awesome card! Those "freaks" only make the T206 collection better.

Looks like a plank ghost

[Jantz]

Looks like White (Buffalo)

Nice card Johnny!

I'm happy for you!

If its not White, then my second guess is Shoeless Joe Jackson....



Jantz

[ethicsprof]

great card!!!
glad you got it---couldn't have happened to a nicer fellow.
all the best,
barry

[z28jd]

Very nice job V. How long did you say it took you to make that?

[Mikehealer]

Looks like my five year old got hold of it before SGC did.

[teetwoohsix]

Congrats Johnny, that is a great score !!! I know this is the type of card that makes the thrill of the hunt worth the chase for you, and months and years can go by without finding scrap like that. Great job !!

You guys who said White are pretty good, I stared at it for a long time and couldn't figure it out Damn things upsidedown

Sincerely, Clayton

[boneheadandrube]

What makes this card a printers scrap? I can see that it might be missing a color and has evidence of a ghost overprint. Are these not sometimes found as print anomaly's or bad quality control in the mass production of t206? It appears to be well worn like a card someone had in a time period collection that was acquired via normal "pack" insert. Just a sh*&%y copy. I like the card but when do the assumptions that a really bad quality print anomaly card must be a scrap begin or end?

GB

[mrvster]

you guys make this all the fun!!Johnny, Barry, Clayton, Mike, Mike, Chris Waz, Jantz, Andrew, david.....thanks so much for the compliments!!! You guys rock....the guy i got it off rocks....he knew how much i love these....

THE White Wins!!!

GB-

This is 100% scrap...the dramatic missing color/ the way the card was positioned on the sheet/ cut/ the way it was "hacked up " over 100 years ago by God knows who....piedy 350 notorious for tons scrap.....100 year old test strips basically....the "WHITE" overprint (very good who got it).....somehow in nyc, someone was setting up plates/ colors......these were tossed on the side....THANK GOD

after years of searching you spot them immediately....

btw...the scans are from another net 54er(thank you for seeing , im blindLOL)...and again , thanks to my friend for getiing me this, i owe you one

[atx840]

There is no written guideline to scrap, I'm new to collecting and only own a few but here are what I look for.

The first is a handcut card with some sort of major print anomaly. The effort to handcut the junk with millions of perfect cards printed makes no sense, quality control was quite good back then.

There are so many variants to this type, the yellow brown scraps we commonly see, others only missing a few colors but enough to tell right away, test print strips with other players on front(like Johnny's) or back...even some used to test other card types or advertising (lax bitters).

Second is handcut, may or may not have a print anomaly but has a blank back. Maybe these were inserted but again a lot of effort and some have massive borders that would not work well in a pack. Maybe these were a promo sheet. Still not pack worthy, considered scrap. Printing proofs could be included into this group.

Third are the brown Old Mill variant & the 649 over print examples.

Lastly are cards that something slight is missing color wise and they appear to be handcut.....really depends on the card and who is looking at it. These won't grade as a color variant and only authentic.

It's likely these were all discarded, unofficially chopped up and taken home or litterally picked out of the trash.

Johnny please correct or change what you think, you are by far the expert here.

[t206hound]

Congrats Johnny! What a score! Better than the common stuff I was trying to sell to you!

[AndyG09]

JV, congrats on the new edition to the circus! Will fit nicely amongst the rest of your tripped out cardboard.

Best,

Andy

[daves_resale_shop]

Cy young hand showing??

[lharri3600]

johnny,johnny, my my!!

[asoriano]

Great card, Johnny! I will be giving you a call in the next few days or so.

Be well,

Turner Engle

[Ladder7]

Great pu

[HOF Auto Rookies]

I want to get a scrap now...

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

I want to get a scrap now...

Autographed T206 HOF'er scrap cards are VERY difficult to find.

So, does Johnny get to add '2' to his Monster number?

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Autographed T206 HOF'er scrap cards are VERY difficult to find.

So, does Johnny get to add '2' to his Monster number?

Haha yes they are, but wouldn't mind any, those are sweet.

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by atx840

There is no written guideline to scrap, I'm new to collecting and only own a few but here are what I look for.

The first is a handcut card with some sort of major print anomaly. The effort to handcut the junk with millions of perfect cards printed makes no sense, quality control was quite good back then.

There are so many variants to this type, the yellow brown scraps we commonly see, others only missing a few colors but enough to tell right away, test print strips with other players on front(like Johnny's) or back...even some used to test other card types or advertising (lax bitters).

Second is handcut, may or may not have a print anomaly but has a blank back. Maybe these were inserted but again a lot of effort and some have massive borders that would not work well in a pack. Maybe these were a promo sheet. Still not pack worthy, considered scrap. Printing proofs could be included into this group.

Third are the brown Old Mill variant & the 649 over print examples.

Lastly are cards that something slight is missing color wise and they appear to be handcut.....really depends on the card and who is looking at it. These won't grade as a color variant and only authentic.

It's likely these were all discarded, unofficially chopped up and taken home or litterally picked out of the trash.

Johnny please correct or change what you think, you are by far the expert here.

"quality control was quite good back then"
I have to disagree with this, or at least how its worded. Maybe "quality control was decent for its day" would be my thought.

"New ways to collect T206's because of bad quality control back in the day"
-no name cards
-name on top cards
-two name cards
-completely misscut cards
-miscut backs
-wet sheet transfers (ooh lala)
-missing colors

"Traditional ways to collect T206's because of bad quality control back in the day"
-typographical errors
-dirty print plates (Shappe/Nod)
-missing colors (Sweeney "no B on shower cap")

"Future ways to collect T206's with bad quality control for those trying to be different"
-registration so bad it almost looks like a ghost print (you can tell friends it is)
-registration so bad it has a cool "trippy" look to it
-background color faded (you can tell friends its a variation)
-diamond cuts (bling for newer collectors)

To each his own with this set...
GB

[mrvster]

Larry, Steve, Turner, Scott, Erick , Andy, Chris and Scott and all the rest who congradulated me, you guys ROCK!!! call me when you can YOU GUYS KEEP ME GOING!! all awesome people!!

GB:


KRAUSE:
This card really was a great addition to "my circus"(Andy coined this great term i use now).....

These things are almost impossible to find....

Chris had a great explaination, but the one area might need tweeking, GB is right, there was little quality control in the 3 years they were printed(more mistakes in the early run, obvious why).....Thank God, cause poor quality control created 100 year old Chase cards/vintage "inserts"

BUT- SCRAP IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ARENA GB!! NOT like the "normal" errors found within the set....There are prob 100 or more "nodgrases" or missing magenta cards , ect....boring.....


Scrap NEVER, I REPEAT, NEVER made it into the packs to be distributed!!!!!, they were retrieved from the garbage or the print floor(yellow browns, dramatic ghosts , blank backs, ect)...where as "poor quality control cards" made it out to the public via distribution in packs("nodgrass" Magie, factory miscuts,ect)....they are much, much, much less rare than scrap....

SCRAP IS ANOTHER "TYPE" of t206.....each one is essentially a "unique" variation of the normal distributed card, ONE of ONES....THEY ARE SNOWFLAKES IF YOU WIll....You can only own 1 unique Variation, or some may have a twin or two, BUT NOT EXACTLY THE SAMe...

some maybe similiar, BUT NO 2 SCRAP ARE EXACTLY THE SAME!!!! REpeat...NO 2 SCRAPS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME...

if you own a scrap, your the only one that owns that "particuliar" variation if you will....each scrap is handcut differently.....so even if you have 2 of the similiar types of scrap, NO TWO ARE EXACTLY the same...YOU own then a card no one else is privy to own, thats why i love, cause i always go the alternative route and against the grain....

My point...

try to find another Krause like this, exactly....YOU WONT!!!!they DOnt exist(theoretically more were printed on the sheet, but who knows if anymore survived, and if they did, they might have a different "ghost" on the front, or another varient... SO Krause is....


"the Krause"





My challenge Gb= find two exactly same scraps!!! they wont exist!\


So, each scrap that you own, is 50-60 x RARer than Wagner....12 x rarer than doyle......

my "freaks" essentially constitute a collection that is ONE OF A KIND...no one can own the same, or even similar collection....i own a partial, one of a kind unique t206 set..

Can not be duplicated with all the money in the world.....thats why i might one day consider the wagner trade...cause i could never afford a wags with cash, but a unique t206 set might get me one(been chasing wags since i'm 11 years old, 41 now) 30 year chase going on...

thats why these scraps are not the traditional"error" card caused by poor quality control by the printer, and something simply blocked the "s" in snodgras from being printed, these were created by Printers set up of sheets/ test runs if u will which created Freaky, Phycodelic images on the these historic cards....Inadvertently created SOME OF THE COOLEST CARDS PRODUced...IMHO.....


instead, they are tiny "unique" pieces of art that was accidentally created by an employee at ATC in NYC who was simply doing his job and ironically PIECES OF TRUE GARBAGE BECAME almost priceless(to me and an increasing larger following)....


One man gather what another man spills.....



pieces of "garbage " are now approaching status of some of the rarest cards in our hobby....


This creates competition for me to acquire these cards, but i want to share with others.....enjoy with others.......collectors are starting to realize whats up.....


PHEW


Peace

V

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

"quality control was quite good back then"
I have to disagree with this, or at least how its worded. Maybe "quality control was decent for its day" would be my thought.

"New ways to collect T206's because of bad quality control back in the day"
-no name cards
-name on top cards
-two name cards
-completely misscut cards
-miscut backs
-wet sheet transfers (ooh lala)
-missing colors

"Traditional ways to collect T206's because of bad quality control back in the day"
-typographical errors
-dirty print plates (Shappe/Nod)
-missing colors (Sweeney "no B on shower cap")

"Future ways to collect T206's with bad quality control for those trying to be different"
-registration so bad it almost looks like a ghost print (you can tell friends it is)
-registration so bad it has a cool "trippy" look to it
-background color faded (you can tell friends its a variation)
-diamond cuts (bling for newer collectors)

To each his own with this set...
GB

Nicely done.

I've been meaning to write an update to the attached article - at the time it was written, there wasn't as much interest in scraps. I was interested in them from a research perspective - I collected T206's and these cards provided clues as to the origins and 'life' of the set. I never was all that crazy about the wild-looking scraps, as I mainly collect for aesthetics and thought they weren't as great-looking as the executed-as-designed production examples, but I grabbed them and studied them whenever possible. Same for the brown/yellow ones - not a great color combo IMO, but these examples taught us some things.

http://t206themonster.com/Articles.html

[jp1216]

Freaks/Scraps are special to those that collect them. If you have a special interest - no matter what it is - any varieties are neat to obtain.

Congrats on the Krause. I (and many others) will always have an eye out for the true 'freak' collectors... Enjoy.

[mrvster]

Thanks Jon....keep an eye out for me please....and if any other collectors find anything along these lines as Krause at the nation, please give me a heads up if u can
Larry, Turner, Erick, Mike and u know who, gimme a shout this weekend





Scott=

Yor scraps were INSANE.....your one of the ones in 1999 or so that got me hooked on these, Art M., Johnny D, and a few others....

I was super dumb and never bought ALL of them from you!!!!hind sight is 20/20 , because NONE have shown up like those since...., i didn't even get one....the sheet # fact 30 was cool u sold me, killian, and i still have it...

I passed on the downey overprint from you for $750.00......

THAT HAS HAUNTED ME!!

I have asked the buyer over the years, but looks like he s like me


The double stamped sweet cap back Dorner(which is an awesome card altho not scrap) has haunted me...let that go for $400.00

WHAT WAS I THINKN????



Took me ten more years to find another doublle stamped back.....but finally got mcintyre....phew...

I did get the stephens blank back freak also 8 years later....what a wait for that....
I wonder what downey would go now at auction...



DID anyone see the Matty and Wajo Yellow brown pop off at last night on bussinaeus????

MATTY went nuts!!!! my example looks like it was torched, but still unique....y/bs are the most frequently seen scraps with twins....ones usually the beaten up red headed step child

man i'm obsessed


if anyone is not feeling the scrap vibe, please kindly send those examples this way

[mrvster]

Forgot to mention how most of you collectors are so cool

But wanted to shout out to Barry Arnold......one of our many great hobby veterans on this board which i have tremendous respect for and have learned alot from over the years and being part of this great hobby, your a great guy.....

Yes!!! I beleive it is still the greatest hobby when you get to meet such great people like these guys on the board

peace

[Gradedcardman]

Thats a beauty !!

[Leon]

Congrats MRVSTER....You da man and are one the most upbeat guys on the board. I admire your enthusiasm and friendliness. I wish there were more of it in the hobby. You bring out the best of what our hobby has to offer. Thank you!! Keep on collecting my friend. I know there is another scrap waiting for you somewhere.

[sb1]

The mother of all scrap must be the 150 Piedmont Wagner with an inverted print of another player on it, the Charles Bray card. Now owned by one of the hobby's most low key collector's and a very casual board member.

[atx840]

It also appears handcut, has this been confirmed?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by sb1

The mother of all scrap must be the 150 Piedmont Wagner with an inverted print of another player on it, the Charles Bray card. Now owned by one of the hobby's most low key collector's and a very casual board member.

I would like to see that one - any images around?

[mrvster]

Adam!!

Adam, you are one of those collectors who keeps me in the game......you are one of the best sellers i have ever dealt with.....you have been super kind to me and really have put such beautiful cards in my circus....thanks for the abs 350 nfs also, i got your back as long as i'm collecting, because sick of getting the shaft from sellers.....mike healer, erick summers are ridiculously AWESOME amonst some of the elite private/ebay sellers out there!!!! ...there are a tons....of great sellers.......but thats another thread.......

Leon-

Without your forum, our collections would not be shared as much, or showcased, or enjoyed as much.....your forum promotes our cards.....i am constantly reading the board between daily duties.....as korny as it sounds, my life would kinda suck without this board!!! I enjoy it and everyone so much, thats why i'm so upbeat....YOU ROCK LEON.....many of us here would agree, and one day i'll meet you

Your an awesome guy and thanks for having me aboard.....(btw, i'm just buttering you up for you matty proof or the holy grail back scrap mull multi strike )....THANK YOU !!!! what taste in cards.....btw....i beleive i have a yellow brown scrap cause of your AWESOME auction in the spring....



HAS ANYONE SEEN the Goodwin preveiw?????????????????????????

My heart started to palpatate........


HOLY SCRAP!!!

those beauties i lost in early 2000 in 19th centuryonly with seth(btw, where is SETH??) he had the best auctions!!

I havent seen that much scrap offered at one time in a long time, think they are going to go big unfortunately for me 7 blank backs????ghosted fronts????bowerman ghosted back????the extra border on fletcher???? a proof?? trimmed up wag???WHY AM I NOT RICH!!LOL i might be the spectator on this one, cause theyll be some brawling over these i think....

not to mention the 2 brown lenoxes....and rare combos....

I had to sit down when i saw them all again....they are beauties and unfortunately, i'll prob see them slip by againouch....


flipside.....my circus is getting crazy

[hank_jp]

JOHNNIE V !!!!

Congratulations my friend! It's a beauty!!

Hank

[mrvster]

BTW-

I have never heard of this card.....my goal has been to trade everything one day for my wag, BUT A GHOSTED WAG???

Sb1 are you serious??? that would be my ultimate card!!!MY holy grail ....id love to see a scan, if someone would pm me???if u own it, i am building a lifetime of freak t206 just to trade for a wag.....not there yet, but having a great time over my lifetime doing it.....and i know if u own it, you share my passion....or obsession

[mrvster]

THERE YOU ARE!!

My friend!!! so glad to see you post......we MISS YOU THanks! call me when you can, hope the fam is great....your another hobby icon hank....SHOW US A FREAK PLEASE!!!

your a collector from the beginning who got me hooked on scrap....and like jim r, the rare backs were the natural progression

[atx840]

[boneheadandrube]

Yo "V"
Congrats on the scrap, if you check my original post you will see I said I liked the card and was just asking about the parameters of where scrap and/or crap begin or end...it's been an edumacation with all the posts about the card since. BTW, I'm not an idiot...I understand that scraps are "1 of 1"...

Happy scrapping!
"GB"

[mrvster]

Sorry GB!!!.... i get excited about scrap! I appreciate the input, and great insight....and your absolutely right.....there is a fine line between "scrap" and "crap"......the in between i have coined"tweeners"....the true scrap 100% cetainty when the obvious signs(ghosts/blank back/obvious gross handcut crazy color shifts overprints ect)/////

Tweeners are missing maybe a pass or two of color, are less "dramatic" are all hand cut, but cannot be determined if cut off printers scrap sheet because maybe "shorter" than off the charts such as fletcher in goodwin(sweet axx card there btw)....basically "tweeners" get you wondering, true scrap gets you aweingLOL

CHRIS!!!

YES I DO remember now seeing an image of that wagz.....THAT is my ultimate card, A WAGNER SCRAP!!!HOLY SCRAP BATMAN...if the owner ever wants to consider a unique collection trade one day, contact me!!

Id even take the wagz strip which i LOVE



INPUT on Goodwin anyone?????

That is Insane SCRAP

[Goodsport40]

Never knew these scraps existed. Neat stuff.

[Runscott]

Thanks Chris, Now I remember years ago discussing that card, turning it upside down and figuring out who the ghost was.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Thanks Chris, Now I remember years ago discussing that card, turning it upside down and figuring out who the ghost was.

Do a quick Google search on Charles Bray T206 and you will quickly find more good pics and more info.

[mrvster]

oh man id love to own it!!

[ethicsprof]

thanks very much for the shout out!!! I also appreciate your kind words.
Not only is your positive attitude absolutely contagious, now your love for
scrap has really caught on!!! The great number of responses with so much interest is proof positive of this and it is a true pleasure to see a thread with
so much sincere excitement and support.
congrats again!!
all the best!
Barry

[mrvster]

That post you just made solidifies what a class act you really are

Veterans like you keep this hobby great!! I look forward to your posts/threads, your insight to the monster i have learned a ton from you, i love your scales of justice like a libra and always see the positive in people no matter their darkest hours even here on the board...
I fear that hobby greats like you don't get the true respect you deserve, and i'll always have your back.... Barry S. Jeff L. Leon, etc... I really can't name all because it would be an injustice to not mention so many of them, our true hobby veterans



I might have put the scews on myself by exposing the rarity of scrap, something that all you hobby veterans know, and essentially shut myself down from obtaining them fairly cheap i think those days are becoming a thing of the past....but i love to see others enjoy them also....


These Goodwin scraps are just incredible.....I wish i was able to pull the trigger back in 2004.....



*****Has ANyone figured out any of the overprinted players yet on the Goodwin scrapS???

I haven't yet....

Please post if any can be identified, i will do the same..



Wagner scrap owner...

please keep me in mind one day

[atx840]

Johnny, I think it was figured out as,

Desseau/Maloney
Fletcher/Clark
Dorner/Ritter
Engle/Burke

[mrvster]

dude!!u never cease to amaze!!!your like a frikn' encyplopedia

THANK YOU!!

[teetwoohsix]

It was seeing Johnnys cards and Leon's multi-backed, ghosted (may as well show it Leon, we never get tired of seeing that beauty) T206 that gave me a love for the oddities. They are very rare (find another?good luck on that) and it's crazy to think they've made it past a century when they should've ended up in the trash. I like Johnnys "snowflake" reference to describe them-so true.

Keep searching Johnny, there HAS to be more

Sincerely, Clayton