Pat Gillick Elected

[bcbgcbrcb]

I watched the press conference this morning on MLB channel and Pat Gillick was the only electee for the Hall of Fame with Marvin Miller falling one vote short.

Thus far, I have not been able to uncover any Gillick cards that exist, does anyone know of anything?

[Peter_Spaeth]

GM for three WS winning teams gets you into the HOF?

[Jacklitsch]

At least he got in before he died.

[Peter_Spaeth]

As between the two it seems to me Marvin Miller is much more deserving.

[M's_Fan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

GM for three WS winning teams gets you into the HOF?

and GM for the 2001 Mariners, that won more games than any other team except the 1906 Cubs. The body of his work is impressive, but I admit I'm not sure how to compare him to others. Comparing GM's is inherently problematic, come to think of it. Does anyone care about the non-players anyway?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by M's_Fan

and GM for the 2001 Mariners, that won more games than any other team except the 1906 Cubs. The body of his work is impressive, but I admit I'm not sure how to compare him to others. Comparing GM's is inherently problematic, come to think of it. Does anyone care about the non-players anyway?

If someone made an exceptional contribution to the fabric of the game, like a Marvin Miller, I can see it and have no issue with it. But it's a slippery slope at the general manager level, I agree.

[triwak]

Glad you posted this Phil, as I was gonna contact you about ANY potential Gillick cards. Damn, the only guy on the ballot that there is probably nothing available of! Being a HOF collector (and trying to obtain even non-players) can be a beeeyotch sometimes! But it keeps life interesting... Lemme know if you find anything, and I'll do the same.

[rhettyeakley]

Good for Gillick, but IMO there are too many non-players/managers that are being enshrined into the HOF. Maybe I'm in the minority but I really don't want Marvin Miller to get into the Baseball HOF--he was a labor leader. Sure, he had an impact on the game (positive or negaive--depending on which camp you are in) but he didn't play, have any direct impact on any game outcomes and shouldn't get in. I know there are other people you could say the same thing about (Kuhn, Bulkeley, umpires, etc., etc.) but just because mistakes have been made in the past doesn't mean we should keep making them.

Also, I'm not a big fan of GM's getting inducted because now you gotta go back in history and induct the 8-10 GM's that were at least as successful as Gillick--not a fan of that ever happening.

Before you know it there will be a call for Bill James to be inducted because of his statistical analysis and how it has impacted the game!

-Rhett

[bcbgcbrcb]

Just discovered a card of Gillick which was produced by the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame, not sure yet of the date of issue but he was selected in 1997.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Before you know it there will be a call for Bill James to be inducted because of his statistical analysis and how it has impacted the game!

This absolutely will happen in our lifetime, imo.

[rhettyeakley]

Rob, I agree it will probably happen in our lifetime, BUT I don't want it to happen. Regardless of whether it has revolutionized the way we interpret statistics or not.

IMO Broadcasters, GM's, Umpires, Commissioners, Labor Leaders, Satisticians, etc. should not be located in the same HOF as the ballplayers and Managers. Maybe a seperate wing within the HOF but not members on par with the actual participants in the game. I know most will disagree with my take but I accept that.
-Rhett

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Rob, I agree it will probably happen in our lifetime, BUT I don't want it to happen. Regardless of whether it has revolutionized the way we interpret statistics or not.

IMO Broadcasters, GM's, Umpires, Commissioners, Labor Leaders, Satisticians, etc. should not be located in the same HOF as the ballplayers and Managers. Maybe a seperate wing within the HOF but not members on par with the actual participants in the game. I know most will disagree with my take but I accept that.
-Rhett

Aren't most of them technically in a separate wing? Thought was the case already, could be wrong about that though and too lazy to look it up!

[Chris Counts]

I'm really glad I'm not a Hall of Fame collector. As I often say, there are too many suits and not enough flannels in Cooperstown. Just wait until it's Bud's turn ...

[bh3443]

Maybe I'm in the minority but I really don't want Marvin Miller to get into the Baseball HOF--he was a labor leader. Sure, he had an impact on the game (positive or negaive--depending on which camp you are in) but he didn't play, have any direct impact on any game outcomes and shouldn't get in.

Very well put, Rhett. You hit the Miller situation perfectly.
Not one single player got in?

[triwak]

Dave (toppcat),

The writers and broadcasters are indeed, given a separate wing and are NOT, in fact considered INDUCTEES of the HOF. They are actually considered HONOREES. Fellow broadcasters often call their peers Hall-of-famers, but that's technically not correct. However, players, managers, umpires, executives and pioneers ARE inductees, and thus true members of the hall. I agree Rhett, I wish that only players and managers were given that distinction. The umps and execs should be honored like the writers and broadcasters but not on equal footing as the players. BUT.... I collect ALL the inductees, so now I'm off to find a Pat Gillick card!

[triwak]

BTW Rhett,

Thanks for the 1928 Zeenut Bud Teachout card - just arrived today! He's the grandfather of a good friend of mine, and I've been looking for that one for awhile. I'll post it on the pick-up thread as soon as I get a new scanner!

Ken Wirt

[DixieBaseball]

Rhett - I absolutely concur with everything you said... I only collect HOF Players and Managers for the very reasons you mentioned. Not collecting the others is my personal protest to the watered down nature of Cooperstown. I am getting where I can't seriously call it a Hall of Fame anymore. With this GM election, I will now refer to the Hall of Fame as simply The Hall or Cooperstown going forward. Totally getting watered down with popular vote, etc.

[Mollys Dad]

Bottom line, baseball is a sport. As such, a-t-h-l-e-t-e-s should be enshrined there. Those with the strength, talent and determination to rise above their peers. Honor the suits, but don't induct them. IMO. I never even heard of this guy until a few days ago. So the word Fame, may not be suitable here.

[bcbgcbrcb]

How does everyone feel about the negro leaguers (players) and pioneers ie- Spalding, Wright, Cummings, etc.?

[rhettyeakley]

I think of the early founders of baseball a bit different I guess as they made the game what it is--probably doesn't make any sense but I don't have a major problem with Henry Chadwick being in. Harry Wright, Candy Cummings, and Al Spalding all played the game as well, so no problems with them being in the HOF.

Most of the Negro Leaguers/non-MLB players probably deserve to be there but again they went and inducted the likes of Effa Manley, which was silly to me. Again, all of this is just one man's opinion but I'd much rather see a Tony Mullane, Deacon White, Lefty O'Doul, or Ron Santo be inducted than Doug Harvey, Pat Gillick, Marvin Miller, Bowie Kuhn, Effa Manley, etc., etc.

[drc]

Just because someone makes an impact, doesn't make it a good impact.

[triwak]

I see now that Gillick was a left-handed pitcher with the 1958 NCAA Championship USC team. He then apparently was with the Orioles farm system for 5 years, before becoming a scout for Houston. Makes me wonder if there might be a USC team postcard or perhaps a minor league card of this guy? As I said before, sometimes acquiring challenging cards of unusual people can be fun and interesting.

[rhettyeakley]

Ken, it looks like he just missed out on being included in the 1963 Scheible Press Rochester Red Wings cards--bummer!

Also, glad you are happy with the Teachout card--it is a pretty tough one w/ all the Seattle collectors out there!

-Rhett

[tbob]

Our guys become eligible in 2012. The Veterans Committee will elect 1880-1940ish players in 2012 with guys playing 1940ish to 1960ish being considered next year. Not sure of the exact dates but Ed Reulbach, Mike Donlin, Deacon Phillipe and Bill Dahlen all have another shot in 2012.

[tbob]

Glad to see Gillick get in before Steinbrenner. George will be in soon I am afraid. Gillick turned around several franchises and made winners of them- Baltimore, Seattle, Toronto, which collapsed after he left. I'm not thrilled with GMs and owners making it in to the Hall but Gillick deserved it if anyone did.
By the way, unless a certain core of guys voting die suddenly, Marvin Miller won't be getting in. Did you read the comments about the anti-labor voters like Andy McPhail who voted? Ouch!