How Should Have SCP Handled This Situation?

[Buythatcard]

Over the past 8 years, I have won cards at most of the major auctions. I have had never had any issues until I won a lot at SCP last month.

I won a shoebox lot of 80 vintage cards that cost me about $1500 including the auction house commission. I knew what I bid on and didn't expect that the cards would be in top condiiton. But I did not expect the following: I received my package with the cards wrapped in bubble wrap. When I undid the bubble wrap, the cards were thrown in a plastic bag with no protection. The cards were thrown all around in the bag. When I took the cards out of the bag, I found one card that was actually in 2 pieces split lenghtwise. In addition, there were a few small pieces of other strip cards laying in the bottom of the plastic bag. I then counted the cards and found that there were only 77 cards!

I sent off a nice email on 6/30 explaining the situation. Didn't get a response so I sent another email on on 7/1. I waited till yesterday, July 6 to see if they would respond. Again, no response. This time I called and was told that they would call back. Someone name Dan called me back.
He was very apologetic and offered a full refund if I send the cards back. I explained to him that I want to keep the lot because I already split the cards up and began selling some of them. I would have returned the lot if they got back to me in a timely matter. Since, a week has gone by and I didn't know whether I would hear from them I had no choice but to start selling the cards. He said that there is nothing else that they can do.

I am not asking for anything more than a replacement of what I was cheated out of. Three missing cards plus a worthless torn card. I am not eveing asking for a replacement for the few other cards that fell apart.

I want to know what some of you think SCP should have done in this situation. Don't forget to take in account that they never responded to my 2 emails.

I would be happy to supply scans of the damaged card and torn pieces.

[jmk59]

Sorry to be non-supportive here, but it seems to me that the second a person realizes that he has something defective, he has the responsibility to not use or otherwise further degrade the item if he wants some resolution from the seller.

Cards are no different. If a buyer finds something wrong and want to seek remedy from the seller, he has to sit on the cards while he pursues resolution. A week isn't that long for no response - maybe not long enough to decide that there will (or may) be no remedy from the seller and start dismantling the purchase.

Using or otherwise degrading a purchased defective product takes away from the seller one of his most important remedy options - a full refund, return of product so that he can resell it as is to another buyer. To unilaterally take that remedy away from him and then expect him to "do something" when you have hobbled his position doesn't strike me as fair.

(Note that I'm not supporting the seller on poor packaging and otherwise not getting an intact lot to the buyer. That's on the seller. But the seller's mistake or poor practice does not relieve a buyer of the obligation to maintain the goods in the condition received while pursuing a remedy.)

Sorry. Just my two cents though.

Joann

Festivus. For the Rest of Us.

[Buythatcard]

Joann,

I agree what you say except that 1 week is more than enough time for the seller to respond. No excuse for not responding to a customers email. If they had responded in a timely matter, I wouldn't have to complain today.

I didn't expect a refund because I did break up the lot.

I am more upset about the way the cards were delivered in a plastic bag. Also, the few missing cards.

[howard38]

Joann pretty much wrote exactly what I was thinking though she wrote it out much better than I would have.

[Leon]

It's a tough call. A week is enough time for them to communicate back. Once the lot was starting to be sold it does tie their hands a little bit. If it were me I would offer a refund of the 3-4 cards, per each value based on the quantity....so probably a $50-$60 or so, refund. But that is only my opinion and every company has to run their business their way.

[mintacular]

Sounds like pisspoor customer service all-around. Regardless of condition, even low-grade cards should be packed with care, there is no need to cause even more wear on the card w/poor packing technique.

I would request a refund based on how much $ you think was lost through the poor packaging and missing cards...One week is more than enough time for them to have contacted you.

[Buythatcard]

I am not the one who will lose out in the long run. I told SCP to remove me from their mailing list. There are plenty of other auction houses out there with superior customer service.

Besides, 20% Buyers Premium for shabby service just doesn't make sense to me.

If anyone needs a glad bag for shipping cards, please let me know. You can even have the small pieces of strip cards that are on the bottom.

[bobbyw8469]

Do you have a link for the auction lot?

[Jewish-collector]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

I am not the one who will lose out in the long run. I told SCP to remove me from their mailing list. There are plenty of other auction houses out there with superior customer service.

Howard, let's talk about the other auction houses while we have a few in Baltimore.

Alan

[barrysloate]

Once you realized there was a problem and that you would be calling them for some kind of resolution, that group should have been frozen. No way you should have been selling off cards. Once you did that, all bets were off. They offered you a full refund which is more than fair, but by selling off cards quickly you were no longer eligible for that.

We've had a few posts lately where buyers can't hold onto cards for more than three seconds after they receive them. What's that all about? You should have waited to hear from them first.

[Robextend]

From what was stated I tend to agree with Barry.

It seems SCP did a poor job in packaging, and then there was the issue of missing cards. As annoying as it is to be let down, a full refund is a reasonable solution.

But once you start selling off cards from that lot, you really can't expect any fair resolution. It should be a lesson learned to always fully inspect your winnings before promising them to another buyer.

[barrysloate]

Of course you could ask them to send you say $100, which would hopefully compensate you for what you lost. But it still doesn't change the fact that you sold cards while waiting for a response. And I agree they could have packed the box better. But they made a mistake and owned up to it, and you can't expect much more than that.

[Thrill-of-the-Hunt]

i dont get it, why email, you should've called first. barry really put things in great perspective here. this is the second post about an auction house delivering less than advertised, BUT, the buyers couldnt get rid of the cards quick enough.

[Buythatcard]

First of all, I gave them 1 week to respond after sending 2 emails. Why offer an email address, if they are not going to respond? We are all entitled to our opinion on how much time we should wait, but not responding to 2 emails after a week is not acceptable as far as I am concerned.

I am not looking for a handout from them.

I did not unload the cards. I started splitting them up to begin selling. I did not want to go the trouble of returning them. I don't want a refund.

I just want them to know that i was not happy with the way it was shipped plus I was not happy with the missing cards.

[usernamealreadytaken]

How can one blame the auction house in a case like this? They offer a full-refund, you refuse and then complain? I think the auction house is the winner by not having to deal with you anymore.

[timn1]

Sounds like folks (especially Chris) got up on the wrong side of the bed-

Howard wasn't saying he wanted a refund, he was just venting a bit, which is part of what this board is for. How exactly did SCP "own up" to their mistake? The buyer didn't want and wasn't asking for a full refund. He was primarily concerned with the packing and the underage (76 intact cards instead of the 80 advertised). An offer of a full refund does nothing for that. SCP should at the very least refund 5% (4/80) for the items they failed to supply. That should be a no-brainer. They also ought to refund the shipping costs they charged, since the shipping was inadequate.

[barrysloate]

Howard- did you ask them to send you a check to compensate you for the damaged merchandise? That way you would have been able to keep the lot.

When I ran auctions I sometimes had to deal with exactly these kinds of situations. I offered something in almost every case, but it wasn't always what the buyer may have had in mind. Maybe this is a situation where Howard's idea for resolution didn't gel with SCP's.

[E93]

I agree with Joann. Especially given that this week was over the 4th of July weekend, I would cut a little slack on that. That said, they would be smart to still offer compensation for the four cards along the lines of what Leon suggested. $50-100 is not worth the PR nightmare. And they did screw up.
JimB

[Buythatcard]

There's always one in the crowd like Chris who needs to get nasty.

I appreciate all other comments whether they agree or not.

I didn't ask SCP for any compensation. i just wanted to let them know that I was not happy. that's all I've been saying in this forum. Just venting.

[barrysloate]

Sorry Howard, I read your post assuming you were expecting compensation. If it were my auction I would have sent you a check for a $100 and considered it part of the cost of running the auction. That's my resolution.

[usernamealreadytaken]

"I didn't ask SCP for any compensation. i just wanted to let them know that I was not happy."
--Then write THEM a letter, don't smear them on a website.

They offered a full refund, which you refused. Not only do these "whine sessions" bother me, its that people play games and hope the auction houses read minds. When you emailed or spoke to them, tell them what you want, if they refuse, go from there.

[Jim VB]

Why are any of us still surprised at the piss-poor customer service offered by SCP? How many board members have to get burned before the rest figure it out and stop buying from them?


(And, oh yeah. What Joann said.)

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Why are any of us still surprised at the piss-poor customer service offered by SCP? How many board members have to get burned before the rest figure it out and stop buying from them?


(And, oh yeah. What Joann said.)

I'm trackin' with you here Jim.

[Buythatcard]

Quote by Chris:
Not only do these "whine sessions" bother me, its that people play games and hope the auction houses read minds


Again, I direct this to Chris. These forums are for letting others know what to watch out for. If these "whine sessions" bother you, then don't read them.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by usernamealreadytaken

"They offered a full refund, which you refused. Not only do these "whine sessions" bother me, its that people play games and hope the auction houses read minds.

How could he accept a refund when, after a week and no response, he had sold some cards? Maybe if you bought a lot of 80 cards and only got 77 you might feel differently, but maybe not?

[usernamealreadytaken]

To Harry: I agree if their is a substantive issue with an auction house doing something unethical, illegal, or otherwise inappropriate, not because you are upset and they didn't give you everything you wanted (whether or not they even knew what that was).

To Leon: I agree with the above posts in that, if dissatisfied, the buyer needs to keep the item intact, unused, whatever to address the (purported) problem. Once the buyer proceeds otherwise, he voids any claim with the purchase.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by usernamealreadytaken

I agree if their is a substantive issue with an auction house doing something unethical, illegal, or otherwise inappropriate, not because you are upset and they didn't give you everything you wanted (whether or not they even knew what that was).

I think that an auction house that lists a lot, and sends the winning bidder less than they listed, IS doing something inappropriate.

Can't see it any other way.


Now, unfortunately for Howard, his subsequent actions, tied their hands pretty well on the customer service level. Once he had taken action to sell off some of the lot, they had fewer options.

[Buythatcard]

Jim, I agree that they had no other options at that point. But, if they would have responded to my emails, there might have been an option.

[bobbyw8469]

We've had a few posts lately where buyers can't hold onto cards for more than three seconds after they receive them. What's that all about?

I have noticed the same thing. The 1967 Topps PSA 10 Willie McCovey is already on Ebay (It sold last month thru Mile High Auction). It is for $1,400 more of course. Does anyone get cards and just hold onto them anymore?

[Matthew H]

This sounds familiar Seems like they know that cards are a physical addiction with withdrawal symptoms similar to opiates.

[Exhibitman]

Part of the problem for a seller is that the seller has no way of knowing whether the buyer is trying to cheat them by claiming a shortage or damage, or whether there really is a problem, which is why a refund on return of the cards is often the only thing a seller will offer. I'm not saying anything illicit was involved here, just that expecting a seller to let you keep the items and just write a check on faith is not realistic.

[teetwoohsix]

+1

[rhettyeakley]

Wow, Tim is right tough crowd today!

Nobody is going to be happy when they purchase something and they don't get a few iems that they had expected (as per the description) and I find nothing wrong with coming on this forum to let off a little stetam... we've seen people do it for a lot less. I feel it is pretty inexcusable for any auction house to not deliver what is in the description, I understand there could be some mistakes in transciption, etc. but if an item is in the description and just isn't included with the package, what happened to it?
-Rhett

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I have noticed the same thing. The 1967 Topps PSA 10 Willie McCovey is already on Ebay (It sold last month thru Mile High Auction). It is for $1,400 more of course. Does anyone get cards and just hold onto them anymore?

Welcome to the era of The Flipper (and no, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that).

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Part of the problem for a seller is that the seller has no way of knowing whether the buyer is trying to cheat them by claiming a shortage or damage, or whether there really is a problem, which is why a refund on return of the cards is often the only thing a seller will offer. I'm not saying anything illicit was involved here, just that expecting a seller to let you keep the items and just write a check on faith is not realistic.

That is cerainly your opinion, Adam. But if a buyer buys $1500 worth of cards from me, and says he is missing 3 of the 80, I would usually take their word for it. I usually give my customers the benefit of the doubt. If the BP was 15% then they made $225 of GP. To give back a quarter of that, to a customer that says they were shorted and they believe it was my fault, is not asking too much, imo. Maybe the most important thing is it will probably KEEP THEM AS A CUSTOMER. Again, this is debatable and is just the way I would handle it. I guess I am a push over..... regards

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I have noticed the same thing. The 1967 Topps PSA 10 Willie McCovey is already on Ebay (It sold last month thru Mile High Auction). It is for $1,400 more of course. Does anyone get cards and just hold onto them anymore?

I buy on 2 different fronts. One is for my collection and I tend to keep those quite some time....actually, unless I upgrade they stay forever (or until I get out of collecting). Two, is that I buy for resale. On those items they barely get to me before I have them for sale again .....

[glchen]

Sometimes there are cards that you buy that you are really intending on keeping, but then you see a good deal on another card you really want, and you don't have quite enough cash to pay for it .... out goes those cards you just purchased.

[tbob]

Ouch! Tough crowd. I am with Tim N. in that I see no problem with Howard relating the shoddy customer service and shipping. I am holding my breath now as I want to see how my shipment looks when it arrives sometime this week
I do agree that you need to hold on to the original shipment until problems are resolved but man that shipping and lack of cards is scary...

[Matthew H]

The three missing cards wouldn't bother me as much as the way the cards were packaged and shipped. I can't imagine why anyone would want to do that to a customer. It's blatant disrespect and it just says "you are not an important customer because this lot is not high end." That's how I read it anyway. Really? There were pieces of your lot scattered on the bottom of the bag?

If the world was like eBay, then you could leave feedback on the front of their website, and I assume things would be different.

[brianp-beme]

I had a sour auction experience from SCP. Mind you, it was more than 15 years ago, and by now I have gotten over it, but thought I would share. I won an auction of approximately 100 T206 cards in middle grade from them, and when I received them was very pleased with their fresh, spanking white borders. I only needed about half for my collection, so I sent a bunch of them to Teletrade (remember them?) shortly after, and then shortly after that took the remainder of the extras to a card show (remember them?) to sell. A dealer (in fact a board member) almost instantly spotted them to be fishy...he believed them to have been bleached. He suggested that I show them to SCP, who happenned to be at the show, but I instantly got snubbed as trying to pull something over them, if I thought they were bad why didn't I have the whole group, etc. I got nowhere until this other dealer interceded on my behalf and confronted them about the spurious nature of the cards. I spent another month wrangling, and finally was able to come to an agreement to send back the remaining cards still in my possession for a refund amount that I thought was in their favor, but by then I just wanted things to be resolved.

Not that this helps, but it does reflect on perhaps a long-standing customer service issue with this company.

Brian

[Exhibitman]

I don't mean to sound like a hard-ass about the issue and I completely agree that the packaging is inexcusable. I've gotten a few dud packaging efforts in the past and had a few items damaged as a result, so I share your pain. That said, I'm simply not of the view that more than a refund offer should be expected to be offered by the seller, and especially of the view that once you realize a lot is partially bad you either accept it or you hold it pending a definite answer from the seller--what you don't do, ever, is bust it up and start selling it off until you are sure the seller won't take care of you. I've been in Howard's position before and I've never broken the lot until I am sure there will be no resolution.

One question for Howard since it wasn't clear to me on reading the post: Did you try to work out a partial refund or did you and SCP leave it at the point where the full refund had been offered and rejected due to some cards being sold?

[Buythatcard]

To Exhibitman: I was offered a full refund if I returned the complete lot. I told him that I was selling some of the cards and am keeping some for myself. He said that there was nothing else that he can do for me. At that point, I told him to remove me from their mailing list. I did not ask for anything else. I simply called to voice my displeasure and to see what their explanation was regarding the service I received from them. It wasn't about the money.
I might have forgotten the whole thing, if they atleast responded to my two emails or explained to me why my $1500 lot was shipped loosely in a plastic bag.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

To Exhibitman: I was offered a full refund if I returned the complete lot. I told him that I was selling some of the cards and am keeping some for myself. He said that there was nothing else that he can do for me. At that point, I told him to remove me from their mailing list. I did not ask for anything else. I simply called to voice my displeasure and to see what their explanation was regarding the service I received from them. It wasn't about the money.
I might have forgotten the whole thing, if they atleast responded to my two emails or explained to me why my $1500 lot was shipped loosely in a plastic bag.

Hi Howard
In your first post you said that you had sold some cards already. In this post you said you were selling some cards. If you had not sold any cards at all, and still had all of them in hand, then that puts it in a little different light, at least to me. I can empathize with them a little bit in saying they would give a full refund and you return exactly what you did get, or keep it the way it is. Since you still had ALL (if you did) of the cards in hand, it was your choice. That being said it still sounds like the communication and packaging were sub par. regards

ps...the original poster has asked for this thread to be locked....