Guesses on the T208's tonight?

[Leon]

Any guesses on how high the group of T208's will go tonight? I have heard the other group coming out isn't in as nice of shape but I am guessing none in this auction, or that one, will be cheap. I am going to guess 220k for this group, after the juice.

[Jacklitsch]

$162,000 with the juice.

(What did I win?)

[cfc1909]

180,000

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Jacklitsch

$162,000 with the juice.

(What did I win?)

well, first of all you have to be closest....then you will win 1 meelion dollars (with finger sticking in mouth).....mind you it's not a "million", but a "meelion".....

[ethicsprof]

quarter of a mil

way out of my league

best,

barry

[Matt]

$150k including juice.

[teetwoohsix]

I'm thinking between $260-270k,,,,,,,,,

[murcerfan]

starting to look like 130k with buyers penalty.

I forgot that lots close individually tonight....doh!

edited to add : OR maybe the whales are gonna bounce the Plank and Collins around the pool some more...

[chiprop]

Sold way too cheap!

[Wesley]

I agree. There is no question the Dygert that sold a few years ago for $20K+ was an aberration, but it is still very surprising how low these cards went for.

[barrysloate]

Other than the Plank and Collins, the prices were incredibly low.

[cfc1909]

10k plus juice for the Bender still seems a bit high but a great type.

18 at one time hurt the hammer. This is a type you could have made much better money feeding them to auction houses a few at a time over a few year period.

Wes -the Dygert was at this years National-July/August

[barrysloate]

The thirteen commons, on average, sold for $4038 each with the juice.

[Leon]

I thought they would have gone higher. Around 145k total .....someone got a steal .

[Orioles1954]

Do you think the prices realized were due to A.) soft economy; B.) the amount offered at one time or C.) confidence in the auction house or D.) a combination of all three?

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Do you think the prices realized were due to A.) soft economy; B.) the amount offered at one time or C.) confidence in the auction house or D.) a combination of all three?

B

[barrysloate]

A & B for sure...but as we've discussed on previous threads, an auction house could be convicted of a chainsaw massacre and still get high prices if they have good stuff. So while there have been some issues with the company's reputation, I don't think that affected the final prices.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

A & B for sure...but as we've discussed on previous threads, an auction house could be convicted of a chainsaw massacre and still get high prices if they have good stuff. So while there have been some issues with the company's reputation, I don't think that affected the final prices.

I am quite sure this will be taken the wrong way by a few but here goes anyway. I think it was the economy and so many coming out at once. I don't think it's their reputation because I agree completely with what Barry said. As for anyone not bidding.....We had that thread a while back about boycotting and there was a mass.....nothing. The ones that boycotted probably never bid in their auctions anyway, or if they did, didn't win anything, or anything of any substantial value. Yeah, there might have been 1-2 but not many more than that.....

For the majority of collectors "stuff" trumps everything. When the stuff stops then it will be easier to boycott .

It will be interesting to see how the Chance Jersey does this evening.

[rman444]

In addition to the economy and the volume currently available, I think other factors are:

1) Back variations - I don't know if a bunch of back collectors have left the market over the past couple of years or if paying huge premiums for back variations and common fronts has just lost its luster, but back collecting today is just not what it was before from my experience.

2) Population does not equate with valuations - I think that a few people may have realized that each of T208s is far from unique (3 to 4 or more of each known) and that they might not deserve the crazy multiplier that prior sales may have suggested when compared to D359s or E104s which are not quite as rare, but certainly not orders of magnitude more plentiful.

[barrysloate]

I think the price of $20,400 for a single comon at the National threw everyone off. Take away that one sale, and last night's results wouldn't look nearly as bad.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by rman444

2) Population does not equate with valuations - I think that a few people may have realized that each of T208s is far from unique (3 to 4 or more of each known) and that they might not deserve the crazy multiplier that prior sales may have suggested when compared to D359s or E104s which are not quite as rare, but certainly not orders of magnitude more plentiful.

Don't forget that people also collect type runs of T cards (Hi Leon!) and it only takes a few collectors needing one to set things off and running price-wise. And four grand for a common is pretty amazing no matter what.

[chiprop]

Does anyone know who puchased a single T208 last night? As of yet, no one has aknowledged buying one.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rman444

In addition to the economy and the volume currently available, I think other factors are:

1) Back variations - I don't know if a bunch of back collectors have left the market over the past couple of years or if paying huge premiums for back variations and common fronts has just lost its luster, but back collecting today is just not what it was before from my experience.

2) Population does not equate with valuations - I think that a few people may have realized that each of T208s is far from unique (3 to 4 or more of each known) and that they might not deserve the crazy multiplier that prior sales may have suggested when compared to D359s or E104s which are not quite as rare, but certainly not orders of magnitude more plentiful.

I think both things you say are correct. I hope back collecting continues to fall out of favor. As I told a newbie in a thread recently: One of the main things to do is collect what you enjoy. That way regardless of monetary value you still have something you like. Because of my own desire to have a variety of cards I doubt I will ever be a mainstream set collector. It just doesn't do it for me. Also, as a type collector, values can easily be swayed. If one or two folks aren't bidding something could go for pennies on the dollar that I just paid a boatload for. It comes with the territory.....

[rman444]

Good points Barry and Dave. There are very few sets where commons sell in the $3-4k range. Even if we assume that last night's results were in line with market reality rather than low, the T208 set would still be the #1 T-set with respect to valuation by a pretty decent margin.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rman444

Good points Barry and Dave. There are very few sets where commons sell in the $3-4k range. Even if we assume that last night's results were in line with market reality rather than low, the T208 set would still be the #1 T-set with respect to valuation by a pretty decent margin.

I can think of one T set where a common would probably go for more....

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by Leon

I can think of one T set where a common would probably go for more....

T215 Pirate ?

[calvindog]

Well, all their prices were not weak:

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...x?lotid=101747

Still trying to understand this one.

[Anthony S.]

I'm wondering if the timing was also a factor. We're entering a time of year that's pretty hectic with a slew of major holidays/events all coinciding over a 5 week period (Thanksgiving, Christmas, Hanukkah, New Years) that can be quite expensive for alot of folks when you take into account traveling, plane tickets, Christmas gifts (my sisters pop out kids like Pez dispensers, I'm losing track), Black Friday spending binges, hospitalization after New Years Eve, etc.

[barrysloate]

That E98 Brown makes no sense. My guess is two bidders chased it all night. That's usually the pattern in these cases.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Wesley

T215 Pirate ?

make that 2

[tedzan]

Here's the grand total (with juice)

..52.5 K.........PLANK
..40 K...........COLLINS
..10 K...........BENDER
....7 K...........BAKER (is actually Cy Seymour)
--------
109.5 K
..48.8 K.........14 A's cards (Lord is actually Magee....Morgan is actually Bowcock)
--------
158.3 K


I declare Steve Murray the WINNER.......Leon owes you a "meelion" ! ?


TED Z

[Jacklitsch]

T221

Edit: PM with addy for the meelion.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

That E98 Brown makes no sense. My guess is two bidders chased it all night. That's usually the pattern in these cases.

That's a $900 card maybe. My only conclusion is that Bill Goodwin must have won it and is planning on auctioning it off for 75K.

[canjond]

Originally Posted by Leon

make that 2

Hmmm T231...

[Jacklitsch]

That's what I meant. My bad........

[barrysloate]

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Jacklitsch

That's what I meant. My bad........

I think there are those in the hobby, the conspiracy theorists, that feel the T231(s) are not real cards. Personally I think Burdick pulled one over on us. They are figments of our imaginations.

Steve- T221, T231.....it's all the same

[barrysloate]

Jeff- take a look at lot #467. It has a very respectable E98 Brown, graded a PSA 2 but with a beautiful front...plus a Cobb, Walsh, Evers, Chase, and 6 commons. And it went for less than just the E98 Brown in PSA 4. Makes no sense.

[chiprop]

ted, I think the site is wrong and the totals do not reflect the buyers premium.

[barrysloate]

With an 18.5% buyer's premium, all final bids would be odd numbers. So the grand total with the juice is $187,585. I guess that's not too shabby.

[E93]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Well, all their prices were not weak:

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...x?lotid=101747

Still trying to understand this one.

That is an easy one. It was bid up by two dealers who know how to remove stains and iron out wrinkles, thus turning a vg/ex card into a nm or better card.
JimB

P.S. If you think Legendary is shill bidding now, with an ongoing FBI investigation into that practice, you must be smoking something.

[calvindog]

Who knows what Legendary is doing or not doing -- I didn't suggest that there was any shill bidding on this lot. Regardless, from experience I can tell you that the type of person who breaks the law is the same type of person who will continue to break the law even with law enforcement watching. Of course, I actually know this from 20 years of practice as opposed to just talking out of my ass.

[rman444]

Oops - I forgot the T215 Pirate and the T231 Fans. Sorry to all of the owners of cards from these two sets that I may have offended - that would be a grand total of maybe 2 people?

[tedzan]

The numbers I posted are from their auction site which claims to include the buyer's premium. For example......

T208 Eddie Plank
"Final Bid(Includes Buyers Premium): $52,500.00"

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by tedzan

The numbers I posted are from their auction site which claims to include the buyer's premium. For example......

T208 Eddie Plank
"Final Bid(Includes Buyers Premium): $52,500.00"

The Web site is wrong, Ted. As of now, those final bids do not include the buyer's penalty. Unless the buyer's penalty last night was zero percent.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rman444

Oops - I forgot the T215 Pirate and the T231 Fans. Sorry to all of the owners of cards from these two sets that I may have offended - that would be a grand total of maybe 2 people?

Actually I thought you knew and were just messing with me...no worries over here....have a good one..

ps...still need a baseball player Pirate backed T215

[barrysloate]

Ted- you could never factor in an 18 1/2% buyer's premium and end up with round numbers. They would all be crooked (pun not intended).

[rman444]

Originally Posted by Leon

Actually I thought you knew and were just messing with me...no worries over here....have a good one..

ps...still need a baseball player Pirate backed T215

Leon - as long as you are holding the drink tickets for next year's national, I would never do anything to upset you.

[ValKehl]

Regarding T card scarcity, I would think there are also fewer T214 cards known to exist for each player than T208s. Is my thinking in error?
Val

[caramelcard]

The E98 Brown price is abnormal and ridiculous.

That's not a tough card and it's a 4 not an 8. If two people were bidding, what were both of them thinking?