e93 Cobb Pro 7

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Posted By: Kyle

Hey Everyone,

I know PRO graded cards are junk, typically trimmed, etc., but once in a while you think maybe you'll get lucky.

There's an e93 Cobb PRO 7 on eBay I was looking at and comparing to other cards. I saw some other PSA graded e93s that look similar in size (ie PSA 6 in MHCC). After some research, particularly with the seller's feedback, I found the answer I was looking for.

The PRO 7 used to be a SGC 30, but was trimmed up quite a bit.

Here's the links:

PRO 7-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320299226577>

SGC 30-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350073886943>

You can tell they're the same card from the paperloss on the lower left corner on the card's back.

Just wanted to share,
-Kyle

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Posted By: Matt

Kyle - nice work!

I always thought the issue with PRO was that they didn't detect trimming. If this is a 7 on their grading scale, I'd hate to see what a 3 looks like.

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Posted By: Steve Murray

The seller might well have taken a real hit on this card. But then now that its history has been outed who knows.

When I first saw the card on aBay I said that might be a 30 on a good day. The crossover from SGC to PRO on this card just goes to show how crappy PRO is.

EDIT: Thanks Kyle for outing this. I missed the part about it being "trimmed up". At a minimum the bottom has been trimmed.

Good job!!!!

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Posted By: leon

Is it trimmed now?....it doesn't really look like it to me....so a 30 could be good money, especially if bought at the bargain rate of a PRO(anything), no?

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Posted By: Anthony S.

I didn't even know PRO was still in business.

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Posted By: Kyle

To me the top border was definitely trimmed. On my screen I can see a tiny black dot on the card's front, top border on the SGC 30. Don't see it on the PRO 7. Even more so is the bottom border. Solid 1/16" looks to have been whacked.

-Kyle

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Posted By: Matt

I don't think full length cards fit into the PRO slabs.

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Posted By: Sean

Oh yea this guy is trimmed up...

img src="

*Edited to make a better looking comparison. Still trimmed.

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Posted By: Red

Well the good news is that the high bidder on the SGC card has the same ID as the seller of the PRO card. So much for the excuse of that's the way I bought it and then claiming to be an innocent victim. Seller location is in California where they have some good laws addressing this issue.

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Posted By: leon

Thanks for that little sample you did. Obviously it's trimmed....

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Posted By: Brian E.

Does anyone know who the seller is?

I for one would really like to know as this is the type of person that I would like to forever avoid at all costs.

Brian E.

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

The PRO 7 image is cropped in such a fashion that you cannot see the edges of the holder. I wonder if the seller trimmed up the card and resealed it in a PRO holder. If so, the guy should have just sent the card to PSA. They love to holder trimmed caramel cards though that might just be reserved for the high grade ones.

Greg

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Posted By: Bobby Binder

It is nice to see a person trying to cheat people take a nice loss for his actions.

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Posted By: jdrum

the seller if this card had ever resided in a SGC holder. His reply, "NO, I got it at the Nationals." Not sure if he meant the NHRA Nationals or The National. He has a lot of other PRO graded beauts for sale as well.

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Posted By: JimB

Not only is it likely trimmed, but it has paper loss on the back and vg corners. Would probably grade an SGC 10 or 20 even if it was not trimmed.
Jim

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

It was in an SGC 30 before it became a PRO 7. PSA seems to have trouble detecting alterations on caramels so it could still grade a 3 even with the paper loss. Seems as long as a caramel card is no smaller than a T206, PSA is ok with grading it more times than not.

Greg

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Posted By: Seth N.

If you go through the recent purchases made by this seller the cards may be the same as what he is currently selling.

Here are some examples:

1953 Bowman Color Mickey Mantle
PSA 2 if the same card went to a PRO 7.5

Looks like the same card because of the crease a little down from Mantle's shoulder. The top left corner looks more squared off in the PRO holder.

1953 Topps Jackie Robinson
PSA 3 if the same card went to a PRO 6.5

1962 Post Cereal #5 Mickey Mantle
PSA Authentic if the same card went to a PRO 9.5

1952 Topps Andy Pafko
Beckett 1.5 if the same card went to a PRO 5

and so on...

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Posted By: Anonymous

I have only had one Pro graded card ever. It was a 1915 Cracker Jack Rickey card that was graded Ex-Mt. The card was obviously trimmed with an uneven left border. I sold it as trimmed while still in the case. I no longer have a scan of this card, but I will never buy another Pro graded card. The only reason I bought the card originally was on an impulse buy with the knowledge that the card was not properly graded.

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Posted By: bcornell

9/20 - looking at the final prices, I forfeit.

For trimming cards, the usual penalty: eternity over an open flame pit.



Bill

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Posted By: Eric B

So he is an active buyer of original cards who then trims (ruins) them for potential higher resale.

Should be a crime! Maybe it is. Not the trimming part - you can do whatever you want to your own property (barring unusual exceptions). But non-disclosure must be some sort of fraud..

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Posted By: Scott S

So assuming the Cobb could be busted out of the Pro holder and re-slabbed as an SGC "A", my guess is that it might sell in the $400 - $500 range. Hopefully there aren't uneducated buyers who are willing to go much higher than that, based on the PRO holder.

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Posted By: Red

If all he's doing is popping out low grade original unaltered cards and then putting the exact same unaltered cards into high grade PRO holders he is committing no crime. If he trims the card in the process then he could be committing a crime depending on where he’s located. According to the item location he’s operating out of California and they have some very good laws on the books applying to collectibles and this practice. If there’s any California lawyers here who know how “slam dunk” this sort of case would be, the 10 times damages awarded to the plaintiff might be a profitable venture to the winner of a $2000-$5000 Cobb. Obviously the guy has some money to be buying these cards in the first place. Before and after pictures of multiple cards bought and sold by the same buyer will make it real hard to claim he didn't know anything about how the cards changed size.

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Posted By: jdrum

that the PRO holder enhanced the value by $150.

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Posted By: Lance

The Cobb didn't look like it had been trimmed to me, but rather cleaned and pressed, so to speak. The guy took a big risk popping that one and got away with it. The others listed above looked to be the R&D before he took the big leap. I would think everyone might consider a PRO holdered card at a great price, but would have to accept the risk involved. I am personally working on a deal, off-line, involving a couple cards in PRO holders. I am buying them as trimmed and crossing my fingers that they are not. We'll see...

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Lance, no one submits cards to PRO unless they are trimmed. Your best bet is that they are trimmed -- and get past the grading companies.

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Posted By: jdrum

Did you see Sean's scans in the thread? Maybe it's an optical illusion. I am not sure I have ever seen a PRO graded card that I didn't think was trimmed, what's the point? If you are working a deal for some PRO graded cards, ask your trading partner if he will guaranteee that they will cross to a legitimate grading company?

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Posted By: jdrum

It's baaaaaaaaacccccccccckkkkkkk!

http://cgi.ebay.com/1910-Ty-Cobb-E93-Standard-Caramel-Graded-PRO-7-RARE_W0QQitemZ300266166258QQihZ020QQcategoryZ86837 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem>

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Posted By: Bob

http://tinyurl.com/53lx7h