removing cards from scrapbooks...

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Posted By: Ben 

I know its not baseball, but the card shown below would command between $500 and $750, maybe more, were it not glued to that piece of paper...

does anybody have any suggestions as to how one might remove a card that is glued to paper while minimizing back damage?

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Posted By: Ben

this tape is all that keeps this card from a near mint grade...any suggestions on this one as well?

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Posted By: dan mckee

tape is next to impossible, but the glue can be handled sometimes (I stress) by soaking the entire item under water for an hour, th paper backing should float right off the card, then remove the card, pat it dry, place it between a thin wash rag and put an encyclopedia on top of it. This will make the player on the card smarter while he is drying.

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Posted By: Ben

I emailed the seller about the hull card, he said that it is glued only on the corners. If I were to soak the card, am I running the risk of damaging the card by doing this? or will the card be exactly the same when dried? I guess its a gamble whichever way you look at it...

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Posted By: David

While the carstock may get damage, but lithographic ink does not disolve in water.

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Posted By: rod

As a child I glued over thirty Mantle and Ted Williams cards onto cardboard. When presented with my "lost" collection as an adult,I foolishly tried to soak them clean. What I came to realize is you lose a lot conditionwise to the suface and overall appearance when you drown your cards. A paper coservator may help , at a hefty price of course. There is a guy who advertises in Beckett who claims to remedy this problem.Good luck.

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Posted By: Paul

I read an article long ago that said tape and tape stains could be removed by soaking the card in the chemical toluene. The author of the article stressed that he had tried this only on 52 Bowmans, but that it worked well.

I have tried it only on a 64 Topps card. I was afraid to soak the whole thing, so I soaked only the corners where the tape was. I believe I used a Q-tip to try to "encourage" the tape to come off. It did, along with some of the ink. So, I can't say that I recommend this procedure, but, if you have a lot of low value cards to experiment on, you may want to give it a try. Maybe if you have more patience than me and don't push the tape off with a Q-tip, you will have more luck.

You should be able to find toluene in hardware stores, although I remember searching a fair amount for it.

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Posted By: Ben

maybe I could preserve the surface of the card by placing the card face down in a container and putting a small weight on top of it to hold it there. THEN poar water on top of it. This way, only the back of the card would come into contact with the water, thus preserving the front surface...

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Posted By: jay behrens

won't work since the paper is pourus and the water will eventually reach the surface anyway

Jay

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Posted By: David

If you're trying to remove a card and have it remain in high grade, I say "Good luck." I've removed (via boiling and other means), but all the cards were in rough shape in the first place, and all were blank backed. Cards on thin stock (ala 19th century trade cards) often warp when boiled. You might end up with a Tobin Litho Cap Anson shaped like a Pringle.

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Posted By: David

Don't ever boil off photographs (I speak from experience).

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Posted By: Ben

is that what you guys meant by 'soaking'? if not, should I soak in hot or cold water? How about steaming the card? so many possibilities...by the time I'm through this card is going to resemble one of my napkins on 9 cent chicken wing night...

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

I had a Scrapps Comiskey with a perfect front, and about 1/8 inch thick scrapbook residue, glue, newspaper, etc. on the back. Mark Macrae told me this: Get some q-tip swabs and some skinny toothpicks. Turn the card upsidedown. Allow a q-tip, wet, to rest on the back of the card until some part of back of card is damp--wet, in fact.. Gently start scratrching with the skinny toothpick. I repeated and repeated this, until--the toothpick stopped digging up newsprint, scrapbook, and stuff. In other words, the REAL back of the card. I dried it carefully with paper towels ands heavy books. When dry, the front looked perfect, and the card was nice and thin; the back, however, had heavy wood-glue stains on it (most Scrapps backs do
anyway)--the back is originally blank.

I'm not sure this would work so well with your '58 (or around then) football player. Scrapps are NOT porus--I'm afraid when you got down to the card back (which probably has important information on it anyway), the toothpick would keep on digging, because of the porousness of the card.

Anyway, it works with Scrapps!

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Posted By: David

Ben, amongst my newsletter readers there is a resident expert on this subject. Along with being a baseball card collector, he teaches classes on restoration and presentation of art, and once gave me lengthy advice on boiling and soaking trading cards. I will ask him again for his advice and will include it in one of the upcoming issues.

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Posted By: Tom

I soaked about (600) 19th century cards from an album that was created in the 1920's/1930's. There were about 30-40 Skinned Old Judges, a S.F. Hess card, 12 Buchner Gold Coins from the ad piece (with the black writing top and bottom), and (10) N162 Goodwin Champs and miscellaneous other non-sport issues.

The way I was 'taught' or told to do it was to fully submerse the cards in distilled water until they float away from the surface that they're adhered to. After that, pat them dry and then put them between white typing paper (multiple sheets), changing the paper every 10 minutes or so until they are fully dry. I also added putting them between two 2x4 blocks and clamping them tight so they would not warp.

Results........I was able to get 5 of the N162's graded by SGC and they brought SGC50's through SGC80. The OJ cards had been skinned and not a candidate for grading and the Buchners had been cut from the ad sheet and also not a candidate (although I did send one in to see what they'd say). These grades are basically the same as if they'd not been soaked out. I think it depends on the type of card and what it's made of as to the success rate. You couldn't soak Old Judges that still had the cardboard backing on them as the albumen photo would pull away from the cardboard backing as well.

As for 1950's Topps hockey cards.......no idea. I like the idea of trying similar (less valuable) cards before going with the higher dollar cards. It also depends on the type of glue that was used to put the cards into the album. 19th century glue is often black (like what you see on the back of Scrapps) but the early 20th century glue soaks off pretty well. I don't think any of the 1950's Topps cards were printed on as good of paper as the N162's, so it might be a crap shoot.

I was a little nervous soaking those N162's off......but they turned out great and they're in my collection graded now.

What does everyone think about if they should have been graded or not?
Should I have disclosed prior to or after grading that they'd been soaked?
Should I disclose this prior to selling them in the future if I decide to?

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Posted By: dan mckee

I never tried boiling water just warm water. I have never had a card damaged from doing this. After dried, you will not be able to tell it was wet. My entire 1962 topps set was under water from a basement flood, yes my basement, all were dried and in near mint condition afterward. I do not grade cards so if you like, I could send one in to see if the very knowlegable, grading experts, never make mistakes graders will slab it, then you will know it is flawless! Of course my 1952 Mantle is slabbed after it soaked into 2 different pieces from about the 10 soaking (don't do this!) I then elmers glued it and put it back together, now it is slabbed! dan.

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Posted By: runscott

I used to soak cards, and this works fine for t206's; however, the writing on the backs of t205's tends to come off in spots.

So now I dip a cloth into lukewarm water and dab it on the glue/paper residue areas until I estimate that the affected area is soaked through just past the surface of the card. I then rub gently with the cloth on the affected area only, re-wetting if necessary. I have also done this to the backs of photographs to remove residue - since I didn't want to soak the entire photo.

I also recommend typing paper over paper towels. After pressing the card between typing paper several times by hand, until you've removed all surface moisture, place between typing paper, stick it in a book you don't care too much about, then wedge the book tightly between other books on a book shelf, and let it stay there for a day or two.

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Posted By: Tom

was when cards come off, put them in another distilled water bath and work to get the glue residue off the back of the card (if there is any). If you don't do this, when you put them between the typing paper, they will stick again to the paper and you might damage the back of the card.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

The keys are using distilled water and not forcing things. Tap water contains chemical and mineral impurities that will stain the card. Any force you exert has the potential to damage the surface. An added "benefit" of soaking is that hairline creases may relax out of the card. After completion, gently press the card into typing paper. Have several sheets ready, folded in half. Use the first few as blotters, quickly removing them. When the card is not leaching water but is still wet, place it in another sheet of typing paper and wedge it inside a book. I stack about ten coffee table books on top of it. I change the paper every ten minutes or so for the first hour, then I leave the card pressed overnight. I then change the paper every day until the card is totally dried out (In LA this takes only a few days in the summer, but it could take a lot longer somewhere it actually rains).

I have had several cards done this way graded by SGC; all passed with ex or better grades.