T206 Brown Old Mill - The Extreme Rarity

[Rhotchkiss]

According to both Ted Z and T206 Resource, there are 34 possible players with Brown Old Mill backs, all southern-leaguers. According to those same resources, only 13 of those players have been located with Brown Old Mill backs. Here is a link to T206 Resource: http://t206resource.com/Brown%20Old%...Checklist.html

In my experience (and I am no expert), there are two copies of some of 13 known-players, but I am aware of no player with more than 2 known-copies, and some have only 1 known example. This means that there are likely around 20+/- known T206 Brown Old Mill Examples, making it about as rare, or more rare, than the Ty Cobb back (I believe there are 24 confirmed examples) and the Brown Lenox.

For those who don't know, all Brown Old Mills are graded A because they are hand-cut/scrap and were not included in cigarette packs; it is believed they were a mistake and that someone forgot to change the ink between the printing of the Southern-League Brown Hindu and Old Mill backs (which are black).

I am thrilled to have picked up the Kiernan and the Helm this weekend (and was bummed to miss out on the Revelle last night in REA), both of which go well with my other two Brown Old Mills (Smith and Jordan).

I would love to see some other examples, so show your Brown Old Mills (if you got'em)

[edjs]

Man, Ryan. Those are sweet. You are putting together one amazing collection.

[DerekMichael]

Wow Ryan, two Brown Old Mill's in one weekend, huh? Not too shabby

[mechanicalman]

Stupid question from a dude who doesn't collect backs - are all the Brown Old Mills graded A for a specific reason?

[RedsFan1941]

because they are all hand cut, because they were scrap

[tedzan]

Here' are my Greminger cards which include a brown OLD MILL with a Sweet Cap Factory #649 overprint.

For additional information on these extremely rare T206's.....http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=237816&page=4..... Post #162



...........




If any one here has a 1910 COUPON Greminger to offer me, so I can complete this run, please email me at..... tedzan11@comcast.net


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Sean]

Great going Ryan. I have the other Helm, but can’t post it right now. But we can see yours, so that’s good enough. .

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

According to both Ted Z and T206 Resource, there are 34 possible players with Brown Old Mill backs, all southern-leaguers. According to those same resources, only 13 of those players have been located with Brown Old Mill backs. Here is a link to T206 Resource: http://t206resource.com/Brown%20Old%...Checklist.html

In my experience (and I am no expert), there are two copies of some of 13 known-players, but I am aware of no player with more than 2 known-copies, and some have only 1 known example. This means that there are likely around 20+/- known T206 Brown Old Mill Examples, making it about as rare, or more rare, than the Ty Cobb back (I believe there are 24 confirmed examples) and the Brown Lenox.

For those who don't know, all Brown Old Mills are graded A because they are hand-cut/scrap and were not included in cigarette packs; it is believed they were a mistake and that someone forgot to change the ink between the printing of the Southern-League Brown Hindu and Old Mill backs (which are black).

I am thrilled to have picked up the Kiernan and the Helm this weekend (and was bummed to miss out on the Revelle last night in REA), both of which go well with my other two Brown Old Mills (Smith and Jordan).

I would love to see some other examples, so show your Brown Old Mills (if you got'em)

That Helm card makes me jealous...as he's the only Columbus, GA player in the entire set. All other Columbus players are Ohio.

Congrats!

[MVSNYC]

Ryan, amazing group.

Ted- didn't know you owned the OM overprint. how many exist? I know it's mythical.

[joejo20]

I am digging up this older thread to ask if this would be considered a brown old mill back? The card has a strange rough cut on the sides. Thank you Joe

[Bpm0014]

The easy answer is: “If you have to ask if it’s Brown........then it isn’t”.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

The easy answer is: “If you have to ask if it’s Brown........then it isn’t”.

I am hoping my Persons is brown. Now I got to go check!

[G1911]

I know the experts disagree, but I think there are actually two browns here.

There is the brown of the scrap cards that is incredibly rare, and then there is darker brown like the one in post #10 that is not uncommon. I have an Old Mill like this, that is clearly a different color in hand, in picture, and under microscope. I think it unlikely this is due to time or fading. I have thousands and thousands of black backed T cards from the ATC project 1909-1912 - nothing except some Old Mill T206 Southern Leaguer's has toned to this brown at all. I think it unlikely a different kind of black ink that ages to brown sometimes was used only for Old Mill T206's and for nothing else from ALC/Brett/Etc.

[Rhotchkiss]

Tough to tell by picture, and I would have to see in hand and to put against another brown old mill or Hindu. But I doubt it. The old mill backs are tricky and there are all sorts of shades, including faded blacks (that look brownish) and some tend towards blue. Brown is pretty brown. I would compare it to a brown Hindu instead of a black back. Also, no Hickman brown OM has been confirmed.

[chriskim]

Watched this video a while back and it talks about brown color back however it is not exactly Brown OM. It does seem like there are diff shades of brown in Lenox but the differences are very very slight. It could be due to the reflection from the graded case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2TJXHnybEE

That "Brown" OM back being asked recently appears to be black to me.

[joejo20]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Tough to tell by picture, and I would have to see in hand and to put against another brown old mill or Hindu. But I doubt it. The old mill backs are tricky and there are all sorts of shades, including faded blacks (that look brownish) and some tend towards blue. Brown is pretty brown. I would compare it to a brown Hindu instead of a black back. Also, no Hickman brown OM has been confirmed.

Thanks for your input and thanks to everyone who replied. These cards are so scarce that I have never had the chance to see one in person. My card is not the same color as a brown Hindu but was noticeably different than my other old mill cards. Thanks again Joe

[MVSNYC]

Happy to report, I was able to do a deal with Ryan for one of his Brown Old Mills (the Jordan). It's significant for me, as it completes a 30+ year journey to acquire all 38 different backs (brands, series, factories, color variations, etc...not counting the Cobb back). Have to also thank Ryan for my Brown Lenox, as I acquired it indirectly from him, via an auction.

[MuncieNolePAZ]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Happy to report, I was able to do a deal with Ryan for one of his Brown Old Mills (the Jordan). It's significant for me, as it completes a 30+ year journey to acquire all 38 different backs (brands, series, factories, color variations, etc...not counting the Cobb back). Have to also thank Ryan for my Brown Lenox, as I acquired it indirectly rom him, via an auction.

Congrats Mike! Very impressive back run.

Chad

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Happy to report, I was able to do a deal with Ryan for one of his Brown Old Mills (the Jordan). It's significant for me, as it completes a 30+ year journey to acquire all 38 different backs (brands, series, factories, color variations, etc...not counting the Cobb back). Have to also thank Ryan for my Brown Lenox, as I acquired it indirectly from him, via an auction.

Wow! Congrats on closing out an impressive accomplishment Mike, are you going to be able to post a pic of the whole group? Would be neat to see.

[judsonhamlin]

Well played, Mike! If I could, I would but I’m glad you got there.

[ValKehl]

Wonderful accomplishment, Mike - congrats!

[3-2-count]

Way to go Michael…..

[MVSNYC]

Thanks so much, guys! Really excited to acquire this card. Thanks again to Ryan for working out a fun, fair deal.

[MVSNYC]

As per request, here's images of the back run...I've done a lot of upgrading over the years, but there's certainly still plenty of opportunity to keep finessing and improving some of the cards...it's the journey, the chase, that makes it exciting. This is the third time over the last 30-ish years that I built a rare back run (the other times I didn't have Brown Lenox or Brown OM...so this is a fun goal reached!)...

[Scott L.]

Man is that a cool pic!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rhotchkiss]

Awesome Mike! Congrats. Glad I could help.

[Sean]

Very nice Mike. You even got a couple extra backs in there, like the upside-down back and the split back Jordan.

[babraham]

Dang, that is a beautiful collection of cards there.
Congrats!

[MVSNYC]

Thanks guys!

Beyond thrilled about adding the Brown OM, and excited with how the back run is turning out. Will slowly upgrade some cards over time.

[3-2-count]

Awesomeness right there!

[mrvster]

simply put WOW!!!

[atx840]

Congrats Mike on completing a very tough project, not many collectors in the all back club.

[MVSNYC]

Thanks so much everyone, appreciate the kind words and support!