How to pronounce Goudey and Bowman?

[jerseygary]

I know this has been discussed a few times in the past...

Has anyone found definitive proof of how you pronounce Goudey and Bowman?

I seem to recall at least one of them was solved because it was in print or someone knew the owner or family of one of those companies - but I went through past threads and can't find it.

So... was one or both ever solved?

[RCMcKenzie]

I'm going to try and refresh my recollection and defer to the experts if I misstep. I started a thread about Goudey a few years ago. It was shown on another website that a descendant of the card company founders pronounced it "Gowdy", the Americanized way that I have pronounced it since the 70's. However, the correct French pronunciation is probably "Goo-deh". I always called Larry Lajoie..."La-joy" like the NASCAR driver, and was told that I should say La-shoo-wey. I thought Bowman was settled at Bowman, but I'm here to learn.

[Casey2296]

I read somewhere that Lajoie is pronounced Laj-wa.

[G1911]

I've always said:

Gow-dee

Bowman, like bowman as in an archer.

[Al C.risafulli]

Per a member of the Goudey family: GOW-dee.

-Al

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I read somewhere that Lajoie is pronounced Laj-wa.

Correct.

Lajoie's father was French-Canadian and I believe possibly his mother.
I live in Montreal now and when asked, as the name is still found in the province, several people told me it is pronounced "Laj-wa" in French, and never as three syllables.

[Snapolit1]

Thought it was pronounced Laj-a-way.

[Snapolit1]

How someone pronounced their name is obviously a different question than how others would pronounce it. If you ask people who speak Italian how my family name is pronounced I suspect few of them would accurately say how my name is commonly pronounced in the US among non Italian speakers. And I'm sure this was even more true 100 years ago when foreign names were probably not considered particularly desirable in many parts.

[profholt82]

Yes, Lajoie is a French-Canadian name. They pronounce it Lah-zhwah. You could say Lah-jwah as well, but it's usually said a little softer than that. There is a popular Canadian comedian who used to be on the tv series 'The League' who is named Jon Lajoie, and that's how he pronounces it as well.

For the others, I used to say Goo-Dee when I was a kid, but over the years I've heard just about everyone else say Gow-Dee. And Bowman is pronounced like Bo Jackson or a bow in your hair, not the bow of a ship.

[bobbyw8469]

I always heard GOW - Dee (like rhyming with Cow Pee)

and BO - Man (Like rhyming with Roman)

[mrreality68]

Never thought of how it was pronounced.

Very interesting

These threads are unique and entertaining.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Yes. Correct French enunciation is La-zhwah, but he was always called La-joe-way by any contemporaries whose voices I've heard.

Eddie Cicotte is "SEE-cott" as per the player's own phonetic spelling of it when asked the question.

Wagner's nickname(s) were mangled more than they should have been. You have his own teammates, rivals and younger players he coached using Hans, HAHN-uss, HOE-nuss, etc. I think most of us know it's the latter, although that's really strange, as it was a bit of a play on Johannus, which has never been pronounced Yo-HOE-nuss.

[Ricky]

As a fellow Rhode Islander (Nap was born in Woonsocket, RI, where there is a large French-Canadian population), everyone here pronounces it La-joe-way, with a soft j.

[darwinbulldog]

Gowdy
Bowman
Lazhaway

[ASF123]

I heard Ryan Dempster on a Cubs broadcast earlier this year - he’s apparently a longtime collector and was talking about bidding on a 1933 “Goodie” Jimmie Foxx. Dempster is Canadian, so maybe that’s like “aboot.”

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by ASF123

I heard Ryan Dempster on a Cubs broadcast earlier this year - he’s apparently a longtime collector and was talking about bidding on a 1933 “Goodie” Jimmie Foxx. Dempster is Canadian, so maybe that’s like “aboot.”

That's the French influence affecting an Anglophone Canadian! I too originally thought they were Goodeys as a kid. Most Canadians probably would.

[Bobbycee]

C'mon!

How do you pronounce Topps? Is the emphasis on the 1st p or second p?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Goudey

I've never heard an American pronounce it any other way than rhyming with "Howdy Doody"

International phonetical alphabet spelling: haʊdi

Lajoie

I believe it's only two syllables, like "causeway" but I've heard many Americans add a third syllable in the middle, as in "That-a-way"

International phonetical alphabet spelling: læʒweɪ

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

How someone pronounced their name is obviously a different question than how others would pronounce it. If you ask people who speak Italian how my family name is pronounced I suspect few of them would accurately say how my name is commonly pronounced in the US among non Italian speakers. And I'm sure this was even more true 100 years ago when foreign names were probably not considered particularly desirable in many parts.

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

Eddie Cicotte is "SEE-cott" as per the player's own phonetic spelling of it when asked the question.

The Italian language is very phonetically pure - that is, the spelling tells you exactly how it's pronounced. There are some regional variations of course (in parts of Tuscany, the word "Casa", meaning "house", sounds like "Hasa", with the "C" eaten, as they say.)

But Cicotte, in Italian, is pronounced: Chee-CO-tay.

So, applying to Lajoie, how his name was pronounced in France or French Canada might not be what was used in the English speaking USA.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by ASF123

I heard Ryan Dempster on a Cubs broadcast earlier this year - he’s apparently a longtime collector and was talking about bidding on a 1933 “Goodie” Jimmie Foxx. Dempster is Canadian, so maybe that’s like “aboot.”

Been in Canada my whole-entire life and I still have not heard anybody say "aboot" yet.

[Snapolit1]

As to Honus Wagner, saw some reliable information recently that 99% of us have been pronouncing it wrong.

It's no HOE-nis but Hahn-is, as someone above pointed out.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Been in Canada my whole-entire life and I still have not heard anybody say "aboot" yet.

I concur. As a Canadian, I have never heard the word pronounced that way in my life.
It's like the stereotype of Americans thinking Canadians say "eh" every two seconds. lol

We have "eh", you 'muricans have the worse-sounding "y'all"

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

As to Honus Wagner, saw some reliable information recently that 99% of us have been pronouncing it wrong.

It's no HOE-nis but Hahn-is, as someone above pointed out.

And his parents probably pronounced his last name "Vagner, as they were German immigrants. [I hope I don't get Jack Morris-ed for noting that...]

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

I concur. As a Canadian, I have never heard the word pronounced that way in my life.
It's like the stereotype of Americans thinking Canadians say "eh" every two seconds. lol

We have "eh", you 'muricans have the worse-sounding "y'all"

I think it's regional. I've heard "aboot" many times from Canadians. And the "eh" on every sentence I heard from all the hockey players who lived in my dorm in college.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I think it's regional. I've heard "aboot" many times from Canadians.

So have I, even from Canadians who have lived for many years in the US. That and pronouncing "been" like "bean."

The pronunciation of "about" seems to change noticeably as you go north. Here in Chicago it's "abowt," but if you get much into Wisconsin and certainly Minnesota, it changes to "aboat."

[irishdenny]

This is a 'Call Ya Friend in Vancoovrr' Life Line question fir me (:

[brianp-beme]

If in Goudey pronunciation doubt, it is best if you instead collect Diamond Stars or Batter Up cards.

Brian (and Topps instead of Bowman)

[tonyo]

I think it's been established here before that Goudey is Gow-dee, but I still say Goo-dee regardless Can't break old habits!

Bowman, I don't think I've ever known anyone to suggest any other pronunciation other than Bo-man

Lajoie and Cicotte, I've only skimmed this thread, but didn't see anyone reference The Glory of Their Times on tape. On that audio tape, the players said Lazh-a-way and See-cot (I'm pretty sure anyway, it's been a few years since I listened to that)

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Mark17

The Italian language is very phonetically pure - that is, the spelling tells you exactly how it's pronounced. There are some regional variations of course (in parts of Tuscany, the word "Casa", meaning "house", sounds like "Hasa", with the "C" eaten, as they say.)

But Cicotte, in Italian, is pronounced: Chee-CO-tay.

Really?
https://www.howtopronounce.com/italian/cicotte

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Really?
https://www.howtopronounce.com/italian/cicotte

Yes, really. They are wrong. Try this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0-a0JkcnhA

Note, they are pronouncing "ciccotti" So the first two syllables are as I said, but the final syllable on youtube is "tee" because that's how the vowel "i" is pronounced. Think "spaghetti" for example.

The vowel "e" is pronounced "ay". So, as I said, we have chee-CO-tay.

From your website, they pronounce the word cinque (meaning the number 5) correctly, with the leading "ci" : https://www.howtopronounce.com/italian/cinque

[nolemmings]

Hmm,
Well it would seem others would disagree.
https://www.pronouncehippo.com/cicotte/
https://pronounce.name/how-to-pronounce-cicotte
https://www.howtopronounce.com/eddie-cicotte
https://www.southsidesox.com/2011/10...y-player-files

"Since the World Series started there has been almost as much argument over the pronunciation of Eddie Cicotte's name as there was about the famous problem, "How old is Ann?" Out in Chicago the announcer at Comiskey Park calls him "Sigh-Cotty." The manager, Clarence Rowland, calls him "Sigh-Cott," and so do all the players. Coming back on the White Sox special from Chicago he was looking over a game of draw, when the HERALD reporter asked him what he really called himself. He wrote it down on a piece of cardboard, and, as he ought to know, it should settle all arguments. The star pitcher of the White Sox calls himself "See-Cot," and he affixed his signature to the affirmation of that. He said that his ancestors over in France used to spell their name with an initial "S" and that they were never know by any other pronunciation than "See-Cot."

-- Chicago Herald, Oct. 15, 1917."


It seems the difference is explained by the fact that the player's name is not Italian in origin.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Hmm,
Well it would seem others would disagree.
https://www.pronouncehippo.com/cicotte/
https://pronounce.name/how-to-pronounce-cicotte
https://www.howtopronounce.com/eddie-cicotte
https://www.southsidesox.com/2011/10...y-player-files

"Since the World Series started there has been almost as much argument over the pronunciation of Eddie Cicotte's name as there was about the famous problem, "How old is Ann?" Out in Chicago the announcer at Comiskey Park calls him "Sigh-Cotty." The manager, Clarence Rowland, calls him "Sigh-Cott," and so do all the players. Coming back on the White Sox special from Chicago he was looking over a game of draw, when the HERALD reporter asked him what he really called himself. He wrote it down on a piece of cardboard, and, as he ought to know, it should settle all arguments. The star pitcher of the White Sox calls himself "See-Cot," and he affixed his signature to the affirmation of that. He said that his ancestors over in France used to spell their name with an initial "S" and that they were never know by any other pronunciation than "See-Cot."
-- Chicago Herald, Oct. 15, 1917."

Sorry.... if it's French, and an altered spelling at that, then forget what I said as irrelevant...........

[toppcat]

I wonder if Al Cicotte pronounced his last name the same way as his great uncle Ed as some time passed obviosuly between their births?

Anoth interesting one is Jack Chesbro, which is pronounced Cheez-burr-oh, just like the first name in Cheesborough Ponds, the beauty producs manufacturer. I believe those two clans were related as well.

[nolemmings]

It is also interesting to me when the pronunciation changes after the player is established. Twins 1b and MVP Justin Morneau played half of his career or more with the name accented on the second syllable, then came out and made it clear that he and his family pronounce it with the first syllable accented. So how would you pronounce the name on his rookie card?

[Neal]

I always thought it was la zhwa, and then a guy with quality cards told me it was lah joo way



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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I think it's regional. I've heard "aboot" many times from Canadians. And the "eh" on every sentence I heard from all the hockey players who lived in my dorm in college.

I had a hockey player roommate and the eh was constant.

[Butch7999]

Our grandad, as a boy, was a big fan of Lajoie. He always pronounced it "la-JOY," but then again,
he learnt it before baseball was on the radio, and our whole family always mispronounced
their own actual German surname, deferring to some Amurricanized version. And yes, "la-ZHWAH"
would be correct, but his family, too, is free to mispronounce it which ever way they prefer.

We pronounced Goudey "GOO-dey" for decades until this discussion started. Once, in Europe,
a group of us bumped into NHL player Doug Houda and had lunch with him at the Louvre. We had
poutine, and a salad with gouda and croutons. Of course, each of those things is a noumenon,
so make what sense of them you can. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daw6UhG0tSk

We're on the Canadian border, so anytime we don't hear a Canadian pronounce "about" as
something between "a-BOOT" and "a-BOAT" it's confusing. Similarly, "house" is somewhere
between "hoose" and "hoce." And a significant proportion of the many Canadians we know
personally punctuate most sentences with "eh," eh?

Of course, a name doesn't have to be French or Italian or Chinese to be tricky to pronounce.
Featherstonehaugh, ferinstance, is "FAN-shaw." Here's the final word on the subject:

[Peter_Spaeth]

One name in sports that has obvious pronunciation is Mike Krzyzewski.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

How someone pronounced their name is obviously a different question than how others would pronounce it. If you ask people who speak Italian how my family name is pronounced I suspect few of them would accurately say how my name is commonly pronounced in the US among non Italian speakers. And I'm sure this was even more true 100 years ago when foreign names were probably not considered particularly desirable in many parts.

Many Foreign names were butchered when people immigrated over here as well. My Mothers family comes from Calabria, their last name, whatever it was, got changed to the town they were from in Italy, which was Longobardi.

[egri]

Originally Posted by Seven

Many Foreign names were butchered when people immigrated over here as well. My Mothers family comes from Calabria, their last name, whatever it was, got changed to the town they were from in Italy, which was Longobardi.

Same thing happened to Vito Andolini, of Corleone.

To add another butchered French-Canadian name, my maternal grandfather's last name, Martineau, is pronounced "Mart-no". Everyone outside the family who I've heard pronounces it "Mart-in-oh".

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

One name in sports that has obvious pronunciation is Mike Krzyzewski.

Or Brett Favre.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by egri

Same thing happened to Vito Andolini, of Corleone.

To add another butchered French-Canadian name, my maternal grandfather's last name, Martineau, is pronounced "Mart-no". Everyone outside the family who I've heard pronounces it "Mart-in-oh".

My reaction to whenever the topps project cards ruin an iconic art design:

[Bill77]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Or Brett Favre.

I was just going to mention that one. How do we get Farve from Favre anyway?

[Casey2296]

This thread needs a card.
-

[biggsdaddycool]

Originally Posted by Bobbycee

C'mon!

How do you pronounce Topps? Is the emphasis on the 1st p or second p?

I hear they are changing the pronunciation to FAN-ah-tics.


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[jerseygary]

Thanks for replying everyone, I appreciate it

[Cliff Bowman]

The only time in my life I have ever heard Bowman pronounced as anything other than ‘Bo-Man’ is when someone screwed up trying to pronounce my written or typed name on a piece of paper in front of them.