T205 Piedmont 42 checklist/survey

[RCMcKenzie]

I'm not aware of a public T205 Piedmont 42 checklist, so I am attempting to create one here. Please post any additions you may have. All questions and comments welcome.

In 2009 a board member said he had observed 54 subjects with this back. At that time there was talk of a publication of all known backs, which as far as I know, has never materialized. In an effort to improve my collecting abilities and anyone else who may be interested here's a list I compiled today from my collection, board searches, and prior sales...

--------------------------------------
edited and revised list per additions from board

Barger part B
Barger full B
Beck
Bender
Bergen
Bresnahan closed
Byrne
Camnitz
Chance
Clarke
Cobb
Collins open
Crandall t crossed
Delahanty
Devlin
Dooin
Doolan
Doyle
Downey
Evers
Ewing
Ferguson
Fisher
Fletcher
Flynn
Ford white cap
Foxen
Gibson
Hauser
Hemphill
Hoblitzell no Cin
Huggins
Jones D
Konetchy
Kroh
Leever
Marquard
Mathewson
Mattern
McGraw
McIntire H
Merkle
Murray
Meyers
Miller
Moran no stray
Needham
Oakes
Oldring
Overall
Phelps
Phillipe
Reulbach
Rowan
Scanlon
Schlei
Schulte
Sheckhard
Smith
Snodgrass
Steinfeldt
Street
Summers
Sweeney
Tinker
Titus
Vaughn
Wallace no cap 2 lines
Walsh
Wheat
White K
Wilson
Willet
Wiltse 1
Wiltse 2

[deadballfreaK]

I can add Hauser.

[brianp-beme]

The list I have from the old T205 Resource website (unfortunately no longer around) had 74 Piedmont 42 cards confirmed as known. Below I have listed the ones not on the list you just posted (by the way all of the ones on your list are on the list of 74, except for McIntyre, Meyers, Schulte and Wallace with cap):

E.B. Barger full B
Beck
Bridwell
Byrne
E. Collins open mouth
Crandall 't' crossed
Dooin
Fisher
Fletcher
Flynn
Ford white cap
Foxen
Gibson
Hauser
Johnson
D. Jones
Kroh
Mattern
McIntire
Merkle
Murray
Needham
Overall
Phelps
Reulbach
Rowan
Sheckard
Smith
Snodgrass
Vaughn
Wallace no cap 2 lines 1910
Wheat

Brian (I have the Kroh and Vaughn)

[RCMcKenzie]

Thanks very much, Ken and Brian, I will add those in.

[familytoad]

My spreadsheet shows that I have a Pied 42 of Oldring. ( I realize this is a "known" back by your list, but it prompted me to action!)

This is one of just three that my list shows I have (Needham and Rowan are my others)

I now have a project to dig into the T205 crate and find the Rube 42 and his bros/
I'll photograph the buggers once I find them.
Thanks for giving tomorrow night after work a real purpose

[Pat R]

You can also add Willett

Willett T205 PD - 42.jpg

[Pat R]

I found scans of all the 42's mentioned in this thread except

Bridwell
Johnson
Matty McIntyre
Wallace with cap

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

The list I have from the old T205 Resource website (unfortunately no longer around) had 74 Piedmont 42 cards confirmed as known. Below I have listed the ones not on the list you just posted (by the way all of the ones on your list are on the list of 74, except for McIntyre, Meyers, Schulte and Wallace with cap):

E.B. Barger full B
Beck
Bridwell
Byrne
E. Collins open mouth
Crandall 't' crossed
Dooin
Fisher
Fletcher
Flynn
Ford white cap
Foxen
Gibson
Hauser
Johnson
D. Jones
Kroh
Mattern
McIntire
Merkle
Murray
Needham
Overall
Phelps
Reulbach
Rowan
Sheckard
Smith
Snodgrass
Vaughn
Wallace no cap 2 lines 1910
Wheat

Brian (I have the Kroh and Vaughn)

Here's scans of Meyers and Schulte

Meyers T205 PD-42.jpg

Schulte T205 PD - 42.jpg

[tedzan]

Hey Rob

For whatever these are worth......here are the PIEDMONT #42 cards which I have.
Regarding the A - B - C - D group, so far the only PIEDMONT #42 cards that have
been confirmed are:
Bridwell, Downey, Hoblitzell, Huggins, Moran, Phelps, Wheat.


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.


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TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

[Harford20]

As mentioned above, my inventory includes Wallace no cap/2 lines, but I cannot confirm that Wallace with cap exists in Pied F42.
Dave

[edhans]

Nothing to add, but can confirm several on Brian's list.

http://t206.monkberry.com/t205.html

[RCMcKenzie]

Here's the scan from April's Hunt auction. They may have reversed the backs, which led me to think the No cap had a 25 back and the w/cap had a 42. I'm going to remove the w/cap until someone can post one.

On McIntyre, I did not see a photo. From an old post, BrianW (Carolina Brights collector), stated that he had one.

Thanks for all the feedback so far. I think the list can continue to grow.

Also, Ted, I saw Bridwell on the list, so I can't rule out that I still need to find one.

When I have time later, I will combine the list. Rob

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Here's the scan from April's Hunt auction. They may have reversed the backs, which led me to think the No cap had a 25 back and the w/cap had a 42. I'm going to remove the w/cap until someone can post one.

Rob

Hl Rob, the scan of the front of the no cap has a bottom border notch, and in the back scan (factory 42) that notch is visible, so it appears they definitely had the scans flipped. And the fact that there are 2 lines of stats for 1910.

Brian

[RCMcKenzie]

Thanks, Brian. I will remove the w/Cap from the list, as the Hunt auction where I mistook the cards is the only source I had for it. Thanks for everyone's help on this.

[Pat R]

I think Bridwell and Johnson are most likely errors from old checklists.

[RCMcKenzie]

I have edited and revised the list in post #1 to reflect the board's contributions. Let me know if I have made any errors or omissions. We still need photo confirmations for Bridwell, Johnson, and McIntyre, as stated above by Pat. Thanks, Rob

[Gradedcardman]

I have what i believe to be the set of all T205 PD 42's. I will dig them out tonight or tomorrow and share what I can.

[brianp-beme]

Hi Rob, McIntire (with an 'i' in his name) needs to be added to your list. This one was on the T205 Resource site.

Brian

[RCMcKenzie]

Thanks, Adam, that would be great. Looking forward to your update. I appreciate it. Rob

Brian, thanks for pointing out the McIntire. I made a mistake. Here's the old post from BrianW mentioning "McIntire" meaning I presume, Harry and not Matty. Also, he was talking about T206 and not T205. I guess we have a photo for Harry and so I removed the asterisk.

www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=84764

[Pat R]

Hi Rob - all of the subjects on the updated list except Bridwell and Johnson have several different scans/photos available here's one of the McIntire's

McIntire T205 PD - 42.jpg

[RCMcKenzie]

Thanks for posting the Harry McIntire, Pat. I guess we'll see if Bridwell or Johnson turn up. Every thread is better with cards. Here's a Titus from my collection. I've heard this subject has a lot of backs. Maybe I'll start a Titus back run.

[t206fanatic]

Have 4 of the f42s

[RCMcKenzie]

Nice ones, Jeff.

Is Jeff's card considered the "D&B" variation? Is my list correct that only the "D&B" variation is found with a P42 back, and not the "D" and "B" variations?


Here's a Devlin I have...

[Pat R]

I find it hard to tell with the Miller variations but I think all three are available
with a Piedmont 42 maybe someone that knows them better can chime in
here are a few to choose from

Miller 1.jpg
Miller 2.jpg
Miller 3.jpg
Miller 4.jpg
Attachment 425718
Miller 6.jpg

[RCMcKenzie]

I agree that it can be difficult to distinguish the variations. Sometimes there are clear examples of all three, B, D, and B&D, but there also many cards that are some blend of all. I'm going to remove a qualifier on the list for Miller. Here are 2 I have...a Polar Bear with the B, and an HLC with the D.

[Gradedcardman]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I'm not aware of a public T205 Piedmont 42 checklist, so I am attempting to create one here. Please post any additions you may have. All questions and comments welcome.

In 2009 a board member said he had observed 54 subjects with this back. At that time there was talk of a publication of all known backs, which as far as I know, has never materialized. In an effort to improve my collecting abilities and anyone else who may be interested here's a list I compiled today from my collection, board searches, and prior sales...

--------------------------------------
edited and revised list per additions from board (* denotes lack of photo confirmation)

Barger part B
Barger full B
Beck
Bender
Bergen
Bresnahan closed
Bridwell *
Byrne
Camnitz
Chance
Clarke
Cobb
Collins open
Crandall t crossed
Delahanty
Devlin
Dooin
Doolan
Doyle
Downey
Evers
Ewing
Ferguson
Fisher
Fletcher
Flynn
Ford white cap
Foxen
Gibson
Hauser
Hemphill
Hoblitzell no Cin
Huggins
Johnson *
Jones D
Konetchy
Kroh
Leever
Marquard
Mathewson
Mattern
McGraw
McIntire H
Merkle
Murray
Meyers
Miller
Moran no stray
Needham
Oakes
Oldring
Overall
Phelps
Phillipe
Reulbach
Rowan
Scanlon
Schlei
Schulte
Sheckhard
Smith
Snodgrass
Steinfeldt
Street
Summers
Sweeney
Tinker
Titus
Vaughn
Wallace no cap 2 lines
Walsh
Wheat
White K
Wilson
Willet
Wiltse 1
Wiltse 2

The Bridwell and Johnson I have listed as no proof to date. The balance I can concur. If any need to be seen for proof let me know and I can scan them.

[nebboy]

I was checking over my list of comfortable P42 to see if I ever found a Bridwell for sell or scan of one - which I have not. Johnson was never on the list as an option.

I use to actively pursue P42 cards for my set as I felt the were under appreciated/valued as I could find a relative scare back (under 1% of total of all T205s) for a common price.

Current have 18 different players in P42

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by nebboy

I was checking over my list of comfortable P42 to see if I ever found a Bridwell for sell or scan of one - which I have not. Johnson was never on the list as an option.

I use to actively pursue P42 cards for my set as I felt the were under appreciated/valued as I could find a relative scare back (under 1% of total of all T205s) for a common price.

Current have 18 different players in P42

John

Are there any new names in your collection of 18 cards that are not on Rob's list ?

It's difficult to read their names in the scan.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

[RCMcKenzie]

Thanks for the updates, Adam and John. I can't read the names on John's cards either, but I assume they are on the list. I agree that this back is still very affordable considering how tough it is. Usually, the seller does not even mention it.

I asked about this list because I like to put together T205 back runs, and without knowing which backs are known to which players, it can be more difficult.

About 8 years ago I found a Bridwell Drum, a few months later I stumbled upon a Broad Leaf. I scooped up most of the rest for low BIN's on eBay. Just the other day I finally found a Hassan 30. I didn't realize I had picked a controversial card to collect.

[brianp-beme]

Johnson was on the original list put out by T205 Resource site. The Bridwell was added later on, and was one of the many additions to the T205 confirmed lists that originated from Net54 member JoshuaL.

Brian

[RCMcKenzie]

I removed Bridwell and Johnson from this list. It's not an official list. Josh and Ron could have piped up or chimed in with more info, but they did not. Maybe these 2 cards will appear in Spring REA lots 6 and 7 starting at $5000, but I doubt it. Thanks to all that contributed. I'm marking my Bridwell run as complete, until further notice. Rob

[tedzan]

Hi Rob

I have to correct a comment I made in my "T205 DRUM and HINDU" thread several days ago. It was in response to Mike's post.....

Originally Posted by gonzo

I’ve never seen a Bridwell Piedmont 42.

If a T205 card comes with an American Beauty Black back
and it comes with a Hassan 649 back
then it will not come with a Piedmont 42 back.

Mike is absolutely correct with his last statement regarding HASSAN #649 vs PIEDMONT #42. I was wrong.

Also, I'll add to Mike's comment the same is true with HASSAN #30 vs PIEDMONT #42 (they are also mutually-exclusive).

I've been doing some research regarding the group of 32 subjects with the A - B- C - D pattern.
And, I now realize that not all of these 32 subjects were printed with PIEDMONT #42 backs.

Some time later today, I will post a list of the ones in this group that were printed with PIEDMONT #42.

Rob.....I'd say this study confirms that your Bridwell will not be found with a PIEDMONT #42 back.


TED Z
.

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I removed Bridwell and Johnson from this list. It's not an official list. Josh and Ron could have piped up or chimed in with more info, but they did not. Maybe these 2 cards will appear in Spring REA lots 6 and 7 starting at $5000, but I doubt it. Thanks to all that contributed. I'm marking my Bridwell run as complete, until further notice. Rob

I checked my scans on file and don't see Bridwell and Johnson with a Piedmont 42 back, unless I'm not looking in the right folder. I'm not sure who confirmed those two cards without digging into some old files.

I still have the website but it's currently turned off to the public while I add the scans of backs that I've saved over the years. I'll probably have a lot of extra time to work on the website over the winter months and possibly finish it to where others can share missing back scans that I don't have in my database.

I would have had it finished years ago but life and health got in the way, but never gave up on the project.

I'll contribute where I can on these posts as I see them and I'll be sure to let everyone know when the website goes live again.

[nebboy]

Photo list as follows with no big surprises.
Barger part B
Beck
crandell T crossed
Devin
Doin
Evers
Ferguson
Foxes
McIntire
Merkle
Needham
Philippe
Scanlan
Smith
Snodgrass
Street
Vaughn
Wiltse

[RCMcKenzie]

Thanks for the research and replies, Ted, Ron and John.

I appreciate the time y'all put into it. A set that I know a lot more about T213-2, has a checklist of 187, but everyone that collects it says they have only seen 185. 1 unchecklisted subject that there are scans of, and 3 that no one has seen. Rob

[tedzan]

There are 12 possible tobacco brands printed on the T205 backs associated with the group of 32 subjects I refer to as the A - B - C - D connection.
DRUM and BROAD LEAF cards are the most difficult. The PIEDMONT Factory #42 can be just as difficult. However, it appears that only 7 of these 32
subjects are found with PIEDMONT Factory #42 backs. With the possibility of 3 more. These subjects are......
Bergen
Downey
Hoblitzell
Huggins
Moran
Phelps
Wheat

and possibly......
Lobert
Paskert
Stone


Thanks to Mike's (gonzo) great observation in another thread, the PIEDMONT #42 back is mutually-exclusive with the HASSAN (#30 and #649) backs.
I can say (for the time being) my Miller Huggins run is complete. Huggins has not to be confirmed with the DRUM back. However, I do expect his DRUM
card will eventually be discovered.


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V---------------------------------------------------------------------AMERICAN BEAUTY - BROAD LEAF - CYCLE - DRUM connection (A - B - C - D)--------------------------V
. . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .









--------------------- HASSAN are NO PRINTS ---------------------



TED Z

T206 Reference
.