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#1
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Let's see some of your favorite T205 cards, rare backs, sub-sets, Cigarette packs, Advertisements, etc. Near Mint cards, or less than Vg cards (condition is
immaterial) for this show. Mission accomplished.....my first T205 "Quad Squad" (as I like to refer to it) is a printing arrangement that American Lithographic (ALC) first designed into the T206 set during their printing of the 350 Series (Summer 1910). It includes 190 subjects in this T206 Series. For more info refer to...… https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...=237816&page=1 Post #25. It combines subjects with the American Beauty = Broad Leaf = Cycle = Drum (A = B = C = D) backs. In 1911 ALC repeated this pattern in the T205 set. But, only with 32 subjects. For more on this group of 32, refer to.... T205 DRUM vs HINDU....or, other tough front/back combos....let's talk T205's Having said all that, I'm happy to say that I have finally completed my first T205 A = B = C = D run..... Harry Wolter (from my Highlanders / Yankees set). I acquired this Wolter DRUM card 5 years ago from Joe Drelich, and I thought the other three members of this "Quad Squad" would come easy. But, searching for certain T205 front/back combos can be tough. And Ringo Starr in his 1971 song titled "It Don't Come Easy"....said it best ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() . ![]() ![]() ![]() Further research reveals this special group of 32 subjects, which were printed with the A = B = C= D pattern, were printed with a total of 12 different Tobacco advertising backs. Twelve backs are the max....the other 176 subjects in the T205 set were printed with less than 12 backs. Check-list of the 12 different T205 backs for this group of 32 subjects.………... AMERICAN BEAUTY (Black ink) ** BROAD LEAF (black or green ink) CYCLE DRUM HASSAN (Factory #30) HASSAN (Factory #649) HONEST LONG CUT PIEDMONT (Factory #25) PIEDMONT (Factory #42) POLAR BEAR SOVEREIGN SWEET CAPORAL (Factory #42) Red ink **Note..... the key factor in this A = B = C = D equation is the Black American Beauty back. Note that the T205 subjects with the Green American Beauty back will NOT be found with a DRUM back. Stay tuned....the Check-list for this group of 32 subjects will be included in the next post here. TED Z T206 Reference . Last edited by tedzan; 06-17-2020 at 11:21 AM. Reason: Added information. |
#2
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I have the set as well! Lots of favorites but I’ll post my highest graded card for now. I was working through an auction and was getting outbid in a number of cards. Saw this one & said what the heck & threw in a bid. Very happy to have it and hopeful he has a PSA8 brother very soon!
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#3
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Has anyone ever seen a T205 Miller Huggins or Zach Wheat with a Drum back...or is Mordecai Brown still the only known T205 Hall of Famer with a Drum back?
John ![]() ![]() Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
#4
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I have a complete (?) set as well, minus the Hoblitzell - No Stats and a couple of the lesser known variations like Collins - Yellow Elephant & Walsh - Pink Diamond. I don't know if I'll EVER get them, but The Chase continues...
This Broadleaf pack is NOT a perfect match for the T205 Set, but it's damn close... |
#5
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Listed here are the 32 subjects that were printed with the T205 A = B = C = D backs. James Austin John Bates Beals Becker George Bell William Bergen Russell Blackburne Albert Bridwell Mordecai Brown Harold Chase (border on shirt) Frank Corridon Thomas Downey Louis Evans George Graham (blue signature) Buck Herzog Richard Hoblitzell Miller Huggins Jack Knight A. Latham Thomas Leach John Lobert Briscoe Lord Patrick Moran Frederick Olmstead George Paskert Fred Payne Edward Phelps John Quinn Lewis Richie David Shean George Stone Zach Wheat Harry Wolter The above 5 names in bold letters have not yet been confirmed with a DRUM back. But, they have been confirmed with the A - B - C backs. Therefore, I expect these 5 subjects will eventually be discovered with the DRUM back. DRUM cards of certain T205 subjects appear to be scarcer than T206 DRUM cards. TED Z T206 Reference . Last edited by tedzan; 06-11-2020 at 12:57 PM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
#6
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Since someone said Hoblitzell No Stats here's mine. The lowest graded card in my set. I still say this is tougher to find than a Wagner (but much, much more affordable, of course!!). Didn't realize how tough it was until after I picked it up.
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#7
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I don't have a dog in the ABCD hunt. I am early in several back runs, however, such as this one featuring Walter Johnson across SC25/SC42B/SC42R/PB/HLC.
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1591197764 https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1591197985 https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1591197985 https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1591197985 https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1591197985 https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1591197985 https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1591197985 https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1591197985 https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1591197985 https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1591197985 |
#8
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I think my Beals Becker has a green Broad Leaf back. Does anyone have Becker with a black back? Could that account for a Drum back not being found? I think with American Beauty, if it has one color, it does not have another. Is Broad Leaf the same way?
Great cards so far y'all, congrats on the latest Wolter, Ted. The only complete ABCD subject I have is Bridwell. I'm past halfway on the complete set, with lots of back runs for different players.
__________________
Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades) Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc |
#9
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My T205 education stopped at ABC. I guess this collector moves to the beat of someone else's Drum.
Brian |
#10
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My Becker is dark green (scan below).
Right now, I feel like the text colors for Broad Leaf are probably a continuum, kind of like how Piedmont 25 can range from lighter blue to very dark blue, meaning that any BL could be found with some shade in a green-to-brownish-grey range. But I'm open-minded on that. Here's ABCD for Latham. .
__________________
. Buying T205s: (larger want list here) • Also WTB: Christy Mathewson - 1914 Pritchard Stamp See the Want List for "Successful net54 transactions" list. |
#11
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I got to 218, still have the set, may break it soon. Here are a couple of the tougher backs in pretty nice shape(not part of the set)....
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#12
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Rob You raise an interesting question regarding the possible "non-connection" of a Green BROAD LEAF card vs. DRUM back (with respect to your Becker card with the Green ink back). However, your Bridwell BROAD LEAF appears to be Green ? And, Bridwell has been confirmed with a DRUM back. Furthermore, the various A = B= C "Quad Squad" sub-sets which I have (waiting for DRUM backs to complete them) have Black BROAD LEAF backs. Huggins is my favorite "Quad Squad" sub-set. The Huggins card has not yet been confirmed with a DRUM back. But his BROAD LEAF back is Black ink. Therefore, I have high expectations that his DRUM card will eventually be discovered. . ![]() ![]() . . . . . . . . . ![]() ![]() TED Z T206 Reference . |
#13
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Hey guys,
Great looking T205's, thanks for posting them. Gonzo..... Love your "Quad Squad" sub-set of Latham......it is magnificent. OK, let's continue this T205 "jive" alive...show-n-tell your cards. TED Z T206 Reference . |
#14
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Here are three more from my set. Love this trio together!!
Last edited by trambo; 06-03-2020 at 07:21 PM. |
#15
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Ted, the Bridwell looks very dark blue or black to me, in-hand.
It's very interesting that Michael's Broad Leaf Becker also has a green back. Here are some backs I have scans of, I'll see if I can scan some more this week and group them by back color.
__________________
Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades) Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc |
#16
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Rob I have not seen enough T205 BROAD LEAF cards to form an accurate correlation between their color variations (green, blue, etc.) and the DRUM cards. There aren't too many BROAD LEAF cards with these other color variations available to make an honest evaluation. The greater majority of BROAD LEAF backs are Black ink (or Brown). One factor I am certain of in this A = B = C = D equation is that the Black AMERICAN BEAUTY back correlates exactly with existence (or probability) of a DRUM back. Conversely, T205 subjects printed with the Green AMERICAN BEAUTY backs are mutually-exclusive with T205's with DRUM backs. Checklist of the 12 basic Tobacco backs for this group of 32 subjects (Quad Squad).….. AMERICAN BEAUTY (Black ink) BROAD LEAF (black, or brown, or green or blue ink) CYCLE DRUM HASSAN (Factory #30) HASSAN (Factory #649) HONEST LONG CUT PIEDMONT (Factory #25) PIEDMONT (Factory #42) POLAR BEAR SOVEREIGN SWEET CAPORAL (Factory #42) Red ink TED Z T206 Reference . Last edited by tedzan; 06-04-2020 at 11:39 AM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
#17
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John Lobert is another one of my "Quad Squad" guys....which for now is just a "tri-squad" sub-set, since no DRUM card of John Lobert has yet to be discovered.
But, I do I have high expectations that his DRUM card will eventually be discovered. Lobert was one fast running dude. This example best attests to this.....in 1913, he and Jim Thorpe raced the 100 yard dash at the Polo Grounds and Lobert won. ![]() ![]() ![]() . ![]() ![]() ![]() TED Z T206 Reference . |
#18
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Nice Mordecai Brown Brum back.
__________________
Favorite MLB quote. " I knew we could find a place to hide you". Lee Smith talking about my catching abilities at Cubs Fantasy camp. |
#19
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#20
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Hey guy, Anything goes here in this thread. I love your display, thanks for posting it. TED Z T206 Reference . |
#21
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Forgot I had this photo. I finished my set in May 2018 and have been upgrading it since. This was taken in May 2018 as I wanted to see it all in one place. It's a master set of all 221 cards. I think the grade at the time was around 4.3. It's a far different set today as many in this photo have been upgraded but the feeling of seeing it all like this was very unreal!
Still my favorite set and one I'll likely continue to upgrade for years and hopefully decades to come!! Loving this thread and seeing all of these great gold borders!! Keep the t205 love coming!! |
#22
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#23
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I really do like the look of the Broadleaf and Drum backs, but am plenty content only having the AB and Cycle options as far as Gibson is concerned. Here's my Cycle: Great cards everyone! Richard. |
#24
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Hi Richard Nice cards.....and with Gibson having the Green AMERICAN BEAUTY back you knew that there was no concern for a BROAD LEAF or DRUM. ![]() ![]() TED Z T206 Reference . |
#25
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Part of my T205 master set (only*missing Wilhelm and Mathewson variations) is*represented by at least 2 examples of all 11 tobacco brands and I have at least*one of each brand that is a Hall of Famer.
My question -- is this a unique subset given the fact that there are only 2 known Hall of Famers with*Hindu backs (Johnson and Duffy...I have Duffy) and 1 known Hall of Famer with a*Drum back (Brown)? Hall of Famers I have by back American Beauty - black ink Chief Bender SGC 60 EX 5 Broad Leaf - black ink Zach Wheat Cycle Joe Tinker PSA 5 EX Drum Mordecai Brown PSA 1 PR-FR Hassan - factory 30 Roger Bresnahan - mouth open Hassan - factory 649 Joe Tinker Hindu Hugh Duffy Honest Long Cut Frank Baker Chief Bender Roger Bresnahan - mouth closed Mordecai Brown Frank Chance Ty Cobb Eddie Collins - mouth closed Eddie Collins - mouth open Clark Griffith Miller Huggins Walter Johnson Rube Marquard Christy Mathewson John McGraw Tris Speaker Bobby Wallace - with cap Bobby Wallace - no cap one line Bobby Wallace - no cap two lines Zach Wheat Piedmont - factory 25 Frank Baker PSA 3 VG* Chief Bender PSA 4 VG-EX* Fred Clarke Fred Clarke PSA 5 EX* Hugh Duffy Addie Joss Rube Marquard PSA 4 VG-EX* Zach Wheat PSA 6 EX-MT* Polar Bear Eddie*Collins - mouth cld - PSA 5 EX* Ed Walsh Sovereign Fred Clarke. SGC 70. EX+ 5.5 Sweet Caporal - factory 25 black ink Cy Young Sweet Caporal - factory 25 red ink Johnny Evers Sweet Caporal - factory 42 black ink Hugh Duffy PSA 5 EX Hugh Jennings Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
#26
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I’d have to say it’s unique unless whoever has the Hindu Johnson also has a similar group. Some other HoFs -could- exist with Hindu backs (anyone with the same backs as Johnson, so Young or Jennings), but I haven’t heard them reported as existing yet. A Drum Wheat could exist but has not been reported yet.
If you count “blank back” as a back, there’s a Speaker and a Cobb, and I believe a Mathewson, though I’ve never seen a scan of the latter. There’s also the McGraw scrap from Leon’s collection that Heritage auctioned a few years back. And I believe that a Collins Mouth Closed probably exists, but I’ve never heard one reported. You might throw Piedmont 42 into your list as well. A bunch of Hall of Famers are available with the P42 back.
__________________
. Buying T205s: (larger want list here) • Also WTB: Christy Mathewson - 1914 Pritchard Stamp See the Want List for "Successful net54 transactions" list. |
#27
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Another group of T205's that fascinate me are the Minor Leaguers. I prefer the artwork on these 12 cards over the designs of the
other 196 subjects in this set. Also, it is interesting that American Lithographic (ALC) printed a group of 12 subjects in the last Series (460-only) of the T206 set which I refer to as the "Exclusive 12". Very similarly, ALC printed this group of 12 subjects representing Minor Leaguers at the tail end of their T205 print run. How do we know these cards were printed late in the T205 game, just read their bios. Their bios have information which indicates ALC printed these 12 guys circa Fall/Winter 1911. They are the T205 version of the "Exclusive 12". ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Hey guys......Let's keep this T205 "ballgame" rolling, show some more T205 cards. TED Z T206 Reference . |
#28
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It's possible that the 14 "Cycle-Hassan 30-Piedmont 25" short-prints (Joss, Grant, Karger, etc.) were replaced by these 12 MLs.
I posted a thread a couple of months ago showing a case in which a T205 Minor Leaguer was printed on the same sheet as a National Leaguer. Maybe they padded the sheet out with a couple of other players to make up the difference. https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=281581 ![]() ![]()
__________________
. Buying T205s: (larger want list here) • Also WTB: Christy Mathewson - 1914 Pritchard Stamp See the Want List for "Successful net54 transactions" list. Last edited by gonzo; 06-08-2020 at 12:33 PM. |
#29
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Gonzo
Very neat, thanx for posting your Mattern card which shows an adjacent Newark player. Here's a miscut John Titus card showing us that Tony Smith was adjacent on the printed sheet. ![]() TED Z T206 Reference . |
#30
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Another run from my Yankees collection is Jack Quinn. He is a member of the "Quad Squad", which means he was printed with 12 different T-brands. I currently have
7 of them. I still need these 5 backs to complete the run. Needless to say, the BROAD LEAF, DRUM, PIEDMONT #42 are tough. Any help from any of you on this great forum will really be appreciated. . ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() TED Z T206 Reference . Last edited by tedzan; 06-16-2020 at 07:31 PM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
#31
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#32
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Does anybody have an educated guess as to copies that exist of those 3 T205 cards...Brown Drum, Johnson Hindu, Duffy Hindu? John Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
#33
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Trust me.....Huggins and Wheat will eventually be discovered with DRUM backs. Ten years ago, when I first started studying the front/back permutations of T205 cards, there were just 20 known with DRUM backs. Since then, 7 of the 12 additional T205 subjects which I predicted have been discovered. There are only 5 more remaining to be discovered with the DRUM back. Quote:
And, as you know the DRUM guys and the HINDU guys are mutually-exclusive. Here's my current Checklist for the HINDU backs..…(please chime in if I have omitted any HINDU's). Quote:
TED Z T206 Reference . |
#34
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Ted
Will be exciting to see if they are eventually found. Any educated guess on existing copies of the Drum Brown and Hindu Johnson and Duffy....maybe 15-20 of each? John Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
#35
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Great cards, btw! Jealous of a few of those as they'd look great in my set...haha! Joss and Johnson are two for sure! Mine are only 5's....haha! Thanks for sharing! |
#36
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John This is not really an "educated guess", anyhow..... I know of 5 cards of Mordecai Brown with DRUM. Two Walter Johnson cards with HINDU. One Hugh Duffy card with HINDU. TED Z T206 Reference . |
#37
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Do those figures include my Brown and Duffy? Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
#38
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John....They do. Another Duffy/HINDU has been reported; however, I've never seen it. TED Z . |
#39
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![]() My only T205 and the one I wanted to end up with (until an upgrade comes along) I do like the backs but once was enough ![]()
__________________
Leon Luckey www.luckeycards.com Last edited by Leon; 07-05-2020 at 05:30 PM. |
#40
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I have posted it on threads before but here is the Hugh Duffy Hindu I bought at a Richmond Tuff Stuff show in 1998 or 1999, if memory serves, from Andy's Sportscards. John ![]() ![]() Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
#41
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Thanks John. I am getting old. That is a great card.
__________________
Leon Luckey www.luckeycards.com |
#42
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There are mis-cuts, and then there are printing flaws, but this Collins card's back is quite interesting. As it reveals to us that this Collins
card was Double-Printed (horizontally) on its sheet. Vertical Double-Printing of T206's is evident with same name on top and bottom. But, I don't recall that any T206's were Double-Printed horizontally. So, the mis-cut on this Collins card reveals a significant difference in the printing process for T205' cards. ![]() ![]() TED Z T206 Reference . |
#43
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Here's a couple of interesting bits of Trivia to give this thread an added bump...then perhaps we'll see some more posts here
with T205 cards or stuff. I am proud to say..... Jack Quinn was one of many Pennsylvanians that are in the T206 set. In fact, the state of Pennsylvania is the source of more BB players in the T206 set than any other State. Pictured here besides Jack Quinn's T206 card is his 1933 GOUDEY card. He is the only active ballplayer to be in both of these prominent sets. He was 50 years of age and still pitching for the Cincinnati Reds in 1933 (his last season). ![]() ![]() TED Z T206 Reference . |
#44
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OK, I guess there aren't too many here that get excited doing the "Quad Squad". Then, why not try a bigger challenge....the entire back run of your favorite T205 guy.
Figuring out the back runs of certain T205's can be a tricky thing. However, the front/back combinations of this group of T205 subjects is well defined. The 12 different backs associated with this group of 32 subjects are listed in Post #1 in this thread. I get a kick out of doing these runs. Continuing from the prior post here, here is my Quinn back run. I still need 4 more backs to complete it. Two of which (DRUM and PIEDMONT #42) are extremely difficult to find. Stay tuned, the run of a favorite T205 of mine is 75 % complete, and it includes a really nice looking PIEDMONT #42. OK, I've said enough. Hey guys, it's your turn to show-n-tell us of your T205's. There are not too many threads on Net54 regarding T205 cards, so looking forward to your responses. ![]() ![]() . ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() . ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Factory #30 ![]() ![]() - - - - - - - ![]() ![]() Factory #649 TED Z T206 Reference . |
#45
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As always - appreciate reading and learning from your informative posts. DOn't really have anything good to contribute - working on a T 205 Pirate team set - landed a few of the green AB T205's form the collection that was shown on antiques roadshow. Would love a little help acquiring Tommy Leach in the ABCD category - anyone point me in the direction of one or more?
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#46
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I've put together this run of T205 Doc Crandall. Of the backs that Crandall comes with, it's missing only the Hassan 30 back - just haven't found the right one yet.
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__________________
. Buying T205s: (larger want list here) • Also WTB: Christy Mathewson - 1914 Pritchard Stamp See the Want List for "Successful net54 transactions" list. |
#47
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Ted, tried reaching out to you but unable to send a PM. Could you please call me when you have a chance? 609-932-6740
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#48
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Here is my no stats...off center but tremendous condition otherwise. Paid for it! But had the rest of the set I had bought and had the chance...might be highest graded one. Sorry, I am just terrible at uploading photos...no idea why too small and crooked.
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