1978 Topps Jose Morales

[deweyinthehall]

OK - I'm tracking there are 2 versions of this card - one with black stitches printed over red, and one with red (with some traces of black at the edges). I've read there is also a version with just the black without red beneath.

What say the jury?

[swarmee]

https://www.comc.com/Players/Basebal...,+1978,ot,i100
COMC only rates them as "black" or "magenta" with many of the black ones have some magenta showing through. I think this one may be black only:

It does seem to have red/magenta in the image, so it's not as if it's just missing a magenta pass. I believe there is a way to modify the saturation in photography software to confirm the presence or lack of magenta in that region.

[Cliff Bowman]

It is correct that there are three variations, the original error missing some stitching, then a botched attempt by Topps to fix it by adding black stitching to the missing red stitching, and then finally the third version where Topps completely removed the red stitching and replaced it with all black stitching.

[ALR-bishop]

As painful as this is, I agree with Cliff

[savedfrommyspokes]

I have the same three versions that Cliff mentions

[deweyinthehall]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

It is correct that there are three variations, the original error missing some stitching, then a botched attempt by Topps to fix it by adding black stitching to the missing red stitching, and then finally the third version where Topps completely removed the red stitching and replaced it with all black stitching.

That's interesting - I would have thought the black was the first error, then they tried to add red, but the black still came through, THEN the red. Why do you think this was the order?

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

That's interesting - I would have thought the black was the first error, then they tried to add red, but the black still came through, THEN the red. Why do you think this was the order?

All of the cards in 1978 have red stitches other than Jose Morales and Roric Harrison with black and Larry Hisle with no stitches at all. There is supposedly a variation on the Harrison although I don’t believe I’ve ever been able to spot it. The first 78 Jose Morales is no question the red one with the incomplete red stitching, then Topps did a horrendous job trying to fix it with black stitching, and then finally they gave up and erased everything and started all over with black stitching and finally got it right, albeit in the wrong color. Why the Harrison stitching is black, I don’t know.

[Cliff Bowman]

I dug out my 78 set to get scans of all three Jose Morales cards, the first card is the very early printing with the incomplete red stitching, the second one is where Topps tried to correct it by putting black stitching over the incomplete red stitching and making a muddled mess, and the third is the final and most common printing with just black stitching. There were seven Roric Harrison cards in my binder, and after scanning all of them together they all look the same to me. I also included a scan of the uncorrected Larry Hisle with no stitching. As an eleven year old in Lakehurst, NJ in the spring of 1978, my friends and I noticed that the Morales and Harrison cards had black stitches rather than red and that the Hisle had no stitches, but I have absolutely no memory of anyone having a Morales with red stitching or the Bump Wills with the large black magic marker circle on it. I didn't learn about the Morales until the mid 80's from the baseball card magazines and the Wills until the early 2000's on eBay. ETA: obviously the 78 Bump Wills circle card isn't as rare as originally thought...

[deweyinthehall]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

I dug out my 78 set to get scans of all three Jose Morales cards, the first card is the very early printing with the incomplete red stitching, the second one is where Topps tried to correct it by putting black stitching over the incomplete red stitching and making a muddled mess, and the third is the final and most common printing with just black stitching. There were seven Roric Harrison cards in my binder, and after scanning all of them together they all look the same to me. I also included a scan of the uncorrected Larry Hisle with no stitching. As an eleven year old in Lakehurst, NJ in the spring of 1978, my friends and I noticed that the Morales and Harrison cards had black stitches rather than red and that the Hisle had no stitches, but I have absolutely no memory of anyone having a Morales with red stitching or the Bump Wills with the large black magic marker circle on it. I didn't learn about the Morales until the mid 80's from the baseball card magazines and the Wills until the early 2000's on eBay. ETA: obviously the 78 Bump Wills circle card isn't as rare as originally thought...

Outstanding! I was an 11 year old in Cheshire CT when I collected the '78 set (my first). I don't recall noticing either the Morales or Harrison at the time, but I do seem to remember talking about how maybe they fired the guy who let the Hisle slip through...

By the way, if you have any extras of the plain red or plain black stitching versions of the Morales, I'm looking to buy...

[deweyinthehall]

Just found this on e-Bay. I've seen ungraded cards mislabeled but for a graded specimen, this sure looks like the plain black stitching and NOT the black over red.

Did PSA err?

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

Just found this on e-Bay. I've seen ungraded cards mislabeled but for a graded specimen, this sure looks like the plain black stitching and NOT the black over red.

Did PSA err?

If I had a nickel for every time I saw a PSA error... I would give them a pass on this one, though, they probably recognize all 1978 Jose Morales black stitch cards this way. It is definitely the all black ink version with no red. Here is one of my favorite PSA flubs, 1967 OPC Ed Spiezio LETTERING ALL THERE. There is no such thing as a 1967 OPC Ed Spiezio MOST OF SPIE MISSING so there is no reason to have that on a 1967 OPC Ed Spiezio card.

[ALR-bishop]

Maybe their error makes it a variation in and of itself

[savedfrommyspokes]

Like Cliff, I had 3 copies of this card in my binder, however, my 2 of my copies were slightly different than Cliffs. I went through my boxes of extra 1978s and found I had right at 50 copies of this card. In looking more closely at them, to me it appears that there are 2 versions of each of the "red", "black on red" and "just black" versions of this card, with the main difference being on some of the "black on red" and "just black" versions the seams of the ball appear thicker and less defined than other copies.



A-Black on Red seams on ball appear thicker ............ 6 of 50
B-Black on Red seams appear thinner than "A"........ 32 of 50
C-Almost no black at all.......................................... 8 of 50
D-Just a slight touch more of black than "C"........... 1 of 50
E-Mostly all black, seams appear thinner than "F"... 2 of 50
F-All black, seams appear thicker......................... 1 of 50


With my sample size you can get an idea of which cards are more common than others.

[Cliff Bowman]

Nice work, I may need to buy one of your 32 ‘B’ cards.

[ALR-bishop]

This is getting to be like the 55 Sullivan i


But now Larry has to list the order they came out :-}

[RCMcKenzie]

This is an awesome thread. I need to dig through my 78's. Haven't said THAT in a LONG time. Rob

[savedfrommyspokes]

Al, we might have better luck figuring out if the chicken or egg came first.


At first I thought this card was a DP, but after looking at the 6 sheets from this set, this card is not a DP. At least if it were a DP, that would explain the two versions of each and why some stitching is tighter than others.