Centering

[Touch'EmAll]

Ended on eBay were two 1940 Playball Ted Williams' cards. The SGC 80 sold for about $50. less than the SGC 70. Significantly better centering on the SGC 70, I was underbidder, darn it. Centering counts big, even over a higher technical grade.

[bobbyw8469]

No doubt....I sold a Kaline rookie SGC 6 with pretty poor centering. It sold for around what '4's go for.

[Leon]

I will pay way more for a card with great centering than one without it, as a type collector. It is being more difficult, as there are 220+ needed, but a lot of fun doing it with the T205s. Centering on individual cards is usually key for me and the technical grade isn't really important at all.... ..As I restock a few faves, T205 Cobb and Goudey 144 Ruth, it will be centering that is very/most important.... This 3rd of 3 faves is close to unimprovable in the centering dept....back for an encore...

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Ended on eBay were two 1940 Playball Ted Williams' cards. The SGC 80 sold for about $50. less than the SGC 70. Significantly better centering on the SGC 70, I was underbidder, darn it. Centering counts big, even over a higher technical grade.

As the potential buyers dwindle on these items, the active buyers get to be more picky and that to me is why centering keeps going up value wise.

Its not like T206 wagner cards centering is the main thing...

but yeah when you have 2,000 cards to pick from and less than 200 buyers of those cards to pay the prevailing 'market' rates, centering becomes the it thing.

you can see on ebay for many vintage cards 20 or so listings of a psa 4-6 card HOF for example in the 60s but none centered well..

[orly57]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

As the potential buyers dwindle on these items, the active buyers get to be more picky and that to me is why centering keeps going up value wise.

Its not like T206 wagner cards centering is the main thing...

but yeah when you have 2,000 cards to pick from and less than 200 buyers of those cards to pay the prevailing 'market' rates, centering becomes the it thing.

you can see on ebay for many vintage cards 20 or so listings of a psa 4-6 card HOF for example in the 60s but none centered well..

I don't think that guys collect nicely centered cards because it is the "it" thing, as you say. Personally, I can't live with an off-centered card. It drives me nuts. Call it OCD or whatever, but I love symmetry. It is just more pleasant to look at. I know that there are many more out there like me.

I collect rare Cobb postcards that have populations FAR lower than the T206 Wagner, and while I may be forced to buy an off-centered copy because it may be the last time I will see one for 10 years, I would hate the card. It would irk me into madness. On more common cards, it isn't a matter of how much more I would pay for the centered one, because the off-centered one isn't even a consideration. I doubt that the bidders on the two Play Ball cards were even the same guys. We collectors are a special kind of crazy.

[midmo]

Originally Posted by orly57

I don't think that guys collect nicely centered cards because it is the "it" thing, as you say. Personally, I can't live with an off-centered card. It drives me nuts. Call it OCD or whatever, but I love symmetry. It is just more pleasant to look at. I know that there are many more out there like me.

My centering OCD isn't too bad, I have a harder time with weak images (faded, out of focus, etc). Of course I'd like a card with great centering and image, but if I have to choose I'll pick the strong image every time. Just my personal preference.

[greco827]

Good centering obviously makes for better presentation, as well as coloring and focus, and all of that. Would you guys agree that for the most part a PSA with a (MC) would go for less than a PSA of the same grade with (MK), assuming the mark is on the reverse?

For the record, I don't care for the qualifiers. If a 4 with "(MC)" is really a 2, just give it a 2.

[Iwantmorecards77]

I totally get the centering thing - and if a well centered card is within my budget - I'll go for it. ...but I really don't mind off-centered cards. Nothing in life has ever been perfect and the same goes with my collection. Haha Plus - an off-centered card is a bit easier on the wallet!

[texmrsport]

My OCD can't deal with off center cards. I'll take a well centered card with a dinged corner over razor sharp corners on a 80/20 centered card any day.

[Stampsfan]

I must be in the minority, and have been for 30 years. for a mid-grade card, I look at the corners first. I prefer a card in nicer shape and a little OC, rather than a card with rounded corners and nice centering.

[darwinbulldog]

I don't recall anyone caring about centering when I got into collecting in the 80s. Presumably they did, but I wasn't aware of it as an issue until I started seeing PSA cards with "(OC)" on the slab when I got back into collecting about 15 years ago.

I think the rule of thumb is:
OC cards sell for 2 grades lower,
MC cards sell for 3 grades lower,
MC cards (T206) sell for 0-4 grades higher depending on severity.

Makes sense.

[orly57]

You may be right in terms of prices people paid. At that time, we went off price guides and didn't have access to all the cards that we have now with the internet. My choices in the 80's were my local card shop and the card show that came once a year. We couldn't afford to be picky. But I remember being bugged by off centered cards since I was a kid. My local card shop had an off centered Joe Montana rookie that the kids would drool over. It would be considered a miscut today. I remember just being annoyed by it.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by orly57

I don't think that guys collect nicely centered cards because it is the "it" thing, as you say. Personally, I can't live with an off-centered card. It drives me nuts. Call it OCD or whatever, but I love symmetry. It is just more pleasant to look at. I know that there are many more out there like me.

I collect rare Cobb postcards that have populations FAR lower than the T206 Wagner, and while I may be forced to buy an off-centered copy because it may be the last time I will see one for 10 years, I would hate the card. It would irk me into madness. On more common cards, it isn't a matter of how much more I would pay for the centered one, because the off-centered one isn't even a consideration. I doubt that the bidders on the two Play Ball cards were even the same guys. We collectors are a special kind of crazy.

I think that the rarer and more significant the card, Orly, the more tolerant the buyer will be of centering and even condition in general. With the Cobbs you (and I) are talking about, if you don't see one for ten years, it is IMHO quite likely that the price will be significantly higher by that time. A good collectible, measured by such standards, will generally appreciate at around 12% compounded annually, meaning it will double in value every six years. Key cards such as you are speaking of may well do significantly better than that--perhaps 14 or 18% compounded annually, meaning they will double, respectively, every 5 or 4 years. After all, one can always upgrade, provided the funds to do so are available.

Highest regards,

Larry

[orly57]

Larry, if I find a Hubel Ty Cobb, it could be missing his head and I would buy it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by orly57

Larry, if I find a Hubel Ty Cobb, it could be missing his head and I would buy it.

LOL....I guess centering isn't always too important depending on the card.

Doing a T205 set with great centering is a difficult project. Especially due to upgrading when a better one comes around ...

[OsFan]

I’m in the pack fresh over centering camp. Always have been. I don’t remember centering being as big an issue prior to professional grading companies but I may be wrong.
Fortunately it makes participating in the hobby easier on the wallet.
In the 80s I absolutely did not even notice centering or realize it was even a thing. Now since I’ve seen it’s important to lots of collectors I pay more attention since I sometimes sell. I wish I could go back to being oblivious to it ha.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by OsFan

I’m in the pack fresh over centering camp. Always have been. I don’t remember centering being as big an issue prior to professional grading companies but I may be wrong.
Fortunately it makes participating in the hobby easier on the wallet.
In the 80s I absolutely did not even notice centering or realize it was even a thing. Now since I’ve seen it’s important to lots of collectors I pay more attention since I sometimes sell. I wish I could go back to being oblivious to it ha.

As has been said, centering seems to be more important on stand alone, key cards, than on more common ones. Only a fool would try to do a whole set with great centering.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by orly57

Larry, if I find a Hubel Ty Cobb, it could be missing his head and I would buy it.

Hubel Cobb even looks good on a fantasy Ramly. I believe the known population on Cobb Hubel is a mere two. So, would this change the pop to 2.5 if you cut his head off?

[orly57]

I will buy the lower half off you right now. You keep the upper torso.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by orly57

I will buy the lower half off you right now. You keep the upper torso.

Hoping to upgrade one day, and then you can have both torsos.

[glynparson]

I started doing larger shows like Willow Grove and the Gloria Rothstein shows in 1990, when I turned 18. Before I did the bigger shows I was unaware how much centering mattered to many people. But I have been aware that many advanced collectors have been very keen on centering for at least the last 27 years. Before that I was limited to what I learned at local shows, shops, magazines, books, and antique markets. Centering is NOT a fad and has been a key component in getting top dollar for cards for a long time.

[Prince Hal]

For me centering is as important as focus/registry. The two combined present the best IMO. Corner wear that is even doesn't distract much. I won this at the recent REA auction and to me this is the perfect "affordable" card of a tough rookie.

[Snapolit1]

Funny, I’d give up a little centering to have sharp corners. Hate rounded corners. To each his own as they say.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by Prince Hal

For me centering is as important as focus/registry. The two combined present the best IMO. Corner wear that is even doesn't distract much. I won this at the recent REA auction and to me this is the perfect "affordable" card of a tough rookie.

Beautiful card. Congrats. That focus on a 51B Mantle is quite rare and special. At a casual viewing distance I also do not notice corner wear; what I notice is image quality and centering. I would prefer to look at that card in a wall case than a blurry PSA 7. Tangentially, a high grade card stands a good chance of having been "worked," in my opinion, and likely the most common thing worked is a corner.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Duncan great card! I'd take yours any day over a higher graded OC!

[wdwfan]

My CDO is exactly like yours. Like centered with a small ding on a corner better than off centered with perfect corners. Just me though.

That's why I try to be Ex-Mt to NM for all of my set needs. But even then, I'll get a card occasionally that'll either be creased/bent, which I have a thread about, or having the image basically going off the card.

Originally Posted by texmrsport

My OCD can't deal with off center cards. I'll take a well centered card with a dinged corner over razor sharp corners on a 80/20 centered card any day.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by wdwfan

My CDO is exactly like yours. Like centered with a small ding on a corner better than off centered with perfect corners. Just me though.

That's why I try to be Ex-Mt to NM for all of my set needs. But even then, I'll get a card occasionally that'll either be creased/bent, which I have a thread about, or having the image basically going off the card.

My OCD is the opposite. I can't stand cards with damaged corners, creases, writing, etc. I would rather have a card a little off centered over a card that has been abused by a collector. That being said, centering has always been an issue with me. When collecting in the 60s and 70s I always looked for good centering when I had a duplicate of a card.

[Snapolit1]

I struggled with the 1936 World Wide Gum in the recent REA auction. Centering will drive some of you guys to drink. But the card has nice corners and seems to be without other significant flaws. This is not a card I see very often and for the last official Gehrig issue is quite rare. As the write up attests. Struggled with it for weeks but ultimately stepped up and grabbed it. Haven't seen a better one offered in some time, and I suspect the 6s and above will be commanding big bucks. Centering be dammed on this one.

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...e?itemid=46687

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I struggled with the 1936 World Wide Gum in the recent REA auction. Centering will drive some of you guys to drink. But the card has nice corners and seems to be without other significant flaws. This is not a card I see very often and for the last official Gehrig issue is quite rare. As the write up attests. Struggled with it for weeks but ultimately stepped up and grabbed it. Haven't seen a better one offered in some time, and I suspect the 6s and above will be commanding big bucks. Centering be dammed on this one.

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...e?itemid=46687

That is a nice card.
Just received this in the mail this evening. It can't be overstated that centered cards appeal to more collectors. People always ask what to "invest" in, in cards. Well, don't do it, first of all. But if you must, it usually helps to get something that other people will find appealing. That said, some cards which have been very well loved can be fun too.

[baztacula]

I'm gonna throw a knuckle curveball into the discussion of centering. How do you determine good centering on an Old Judge card? The cards were photos of bigger photos that had a border template placed on top of them. So "centering" was determined by how symmetrically the border overlay was placed down on the photos combined with how the cards were cut!

Look at the two Ramsey cards. One has left-right borders that are close in size but the image is a bit off-center. The other has asymmetrical left & right borders but with a near perfectly centered image! Which is the "centered card"?