T206 350/460 series (illustrated) and why certain T-brands are mutually-exclusive

[tedzan]

"Pictures are worth 1000 words"....therefore, I have constructed these scans of the 350/460 series subjects in order to illustrate how the mutually-exclusive 460-type backs
in this series resulted from American Lithographic separating these 63 subjects into two print groups.

Group A of the 350/460 series includes 35 subjects printed and issued with these four 460-type backs (circa..late 1910 > early 1911).

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Factory #25 VA ......................... Factory#42 N.C.


Conversely, these 35 subjects were NOT PRINTED with.... AMERICAN BEAUTY 460....UZIT


Group A

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Group B




Group B of the 350/460 series includes 28 subjects printed and issued with these two 460-type backs (circa..Feb-Mar 1911).


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Conversely, these 28 subjects were NOT PRINTED with.... SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 25....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42....red HINDU....BROAD LEAF 460


Furthermore.....please note my use of the word " subjects " (instead of cards). We do not actually know how many cards were printed on a standard size sheet. These group
numbers (35 and 28 subjects) are rather small. It is very likely that the Group A subjects were Double-Printed, or even Triple-Printed on a standard size sheet. I have several
350/460 series T206's with double-same-names (indicative of vertically Double-Printed cards). This same multiple printing format applies to the Group B subjects.


Note
The LENOX brand....so far, 43 of these 63 subjects have been confirmed with the LENOX back. I haven't included LENOX in this analysis since a discernible pattern isn't quite
evident at this time. It's still a work in progress.


Your inputs on anything related to this subject are appreciated.


TED Z
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[tedzan]

With respect to the 350/460 series subjects, PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 back was printed on all 63 of these subjects.


TED Z
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[Gradedcardman]

Originally Posted by tedzan

With respect to the 350/460 series subjects, PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 back was printed on all 63 of these subjects.


TED Z
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I concur with Ted

[tedzan]

I received an email from a Net54 reader regarding the CYCLE 460 cards.

Apparently, the CYCLE 460 cards were printed prior to American Lithographic separating into two groups the 63 subjects in the 350/460 series.

All these 63 subjects, and the 46 subjects in the 460-only series, were printed and issued with CYCLE 460 backs.



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TED Z
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[mrvster]

Thanks to Chris B !! hope this helps

yellow brown scrap collage 350/460 overprint missing.....these were prob concurrently printed with broadleaf 460??

[tedzan]

....you are the man !

Thanks for posting the scan of those 350/460 series cards. That group of cards is a perfect match for the group I have defined as "Group A" in my introductory post here.

I love it when empirical evidence matches theory.

Take care, good buddy.

TED Z
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[tedzan]

Johnny V's post reminded me to comment on the 350/460 series subjects printed SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #30 backs.

These 63 subjects were initially printed with this back. However, these cards were never issued. Instead, these cards were overprinted with the Factory #42 N.C.
designation in anticipation of the impending divestiture of the American Tobacco Co. (ATC). The SWEET CAPORAL production was to be transferred from ATC's New
YORK plant (Factory #30) to the Liggett & Myers plant (Factory #42) in Durham, NC.



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T206 collector's value these 350/460 incomplete "scraps" printed only with yellow and brown ink and with SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #30 backs.

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Post script
After the "break-up" of ATC in 1911, ATC retained the SWEET CAPORAL brand. The AMERICAN BEAUTY and PIEDMONT brands went to Liggett & Myers.



TED Z
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[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

As a novice collector of T206, I'm utterly confused with all the back variations. Maybe my brain is fried end of week but reading above is like reading chinese. Lol

[sreader3]

Hi Ted,
Great work on these 350/460s. The bifurcation between regular prints and super prints was in need of further explication and you and others have taken the next steps by showing these mutual exclusivities among the entire 350/460 group. I'll be thinking about what you have posted here and provide thoughts publicly or privately.
Scot

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Hi Ted,
Great work on these 350/460s. The bifurcation between regular prints and super prints was in need of further explication and you and others have taken the next steps by showing these mutual exclusivities among the entire 350/460 group. I'll be thinking about what you have posted here and provide thoughts publicly or privately.
Scot

Thanks to all who share with the hobby. Would like to hear your thoughts, Scot, on Ted's findings.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Hi Ted,
Great work on these 350/460s. The bifurcation between regular prints and super prints was in need of further explication and you and others have taken the next steps by showing these mutual exclusivities among the entire 350/460 group. I'll be thinking about what you have posted here and provide thoughts publicly or privately.
Scot

Hi Scot

You & I have talked about these 350/460 factors in the past. I thought it would be less complicated for new collectors to the T206 game, by illustrating with scans of these 63 subjects.

I look forward to your inputs.

Thanks,

TED Z
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[Pilot172000]

Ted

You need to gather all of your T206 threads and put them in book form. I'm down for at least three copies.

[tedzan]

Scot

Incidentally, here are the 12 guys listed in my PIEDMONT thread. I have (or have had) Chase (trophy), Latham, Merkle, Schaefer, Schlei (batting), and Wiltse.
The other 6 subjects have been reported by Net54 members.

460-only Series......12 subjects

Bergen (catching)
Chase (Trophy)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
Merkle (throwing)
Murray (portrait)
Overall (blue sky)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


..




TED Z
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[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pilot172000

Ted

You need to gather all of your T206 threads and put them in book form. I'm down for at least three copies.

David

I appreciate your suggestion. It would be quite a project, as I have been posting T206 stuff for over 10 years on Net54.

Thank you for your complimentary words.


TED Z
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[tedzan]

VintageJay


Thanks....I appreciate your complimentary words.


TED Z
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[tedzan]

The six super-prints ** were the first group of T206 subjects that were printed with 350 series backs and 460 series backs. American Lithographic printed
these 6 cards in their SOVEREIGN 350 & SOVEREIGN 460 press runs. This was the start of the 350/460 series, which was expanded to include 63 subjects.

The SOVEREIGN 460 cards of these 6 super-prints are very tough to find. And, especially the red Cobb.



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** Note
In his book "Inside T206", Scot Reader's excellent analysis of the T206 set identifies these 6 subjects as the "super-prints".



TED Z
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[Sean]

Hi Ted, I'm sorry for changing the subject, but I'm wondering if all of these Super prints were made with Red Hindu backs as well? I don't think that a Mathewson has ever been found?

I know that they aren't part of the exclusive twelve (I think that that's what you called them in another thread), but how difficult are these with a Red Hindu?

[tedzan]

Hi Sean

Listed here is my up-to-date info regarding the red HINDU cards The cards in the 350/460 series are all very tough to find with the red HINDU back.
Whereas, the Exclusive 12 cards (460-only series) are more available with the red HINDU backs.

To date, 31 subjects have been confirmed with the red HINDU back in the
350/460 series.

Baker
Bender (no trees)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Chance (portrait-yellow).............super-print
Chase (blue).............................super-print
Chase (dark cap).......................super-print
Cobb (red portrait).....................super-print
Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (Chicago-yellow sky)..........super-print
Griffith (bat)
Johnson (pitching)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)

Magee (bat)
Murphy (batting)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Willis (throwing)
CYoung (glove)


460-only series (Exclusive 12)

Crandall (cap)
Devore
Duffy
Ford
Gandil
Geyer
Hummel
McGraw (glove at hip)
Pfeffer
Sheckard (glove)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Wheat



The following 350/460 subjects have yet to be confirmed with the red HINDU back. All four are possible with this back.

Ames (hands above head)
Mathewson (dark cap)................super-print
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
Reulbach (no glove)


TED Z
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[tedzan]

Including the 5 cards posted by Pat (post #28), I have accounted for 16 of these Sweet Caporal Factory #30 "scraps" in circulation......

Berger
Bradley
Burch
Cobb (bat off)
Conroy
Crawford
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Leifield
Overall
Smith (Chi & Bos)
Steinfeldt
Doc White
Wilhelm
Willis (bat)
Wiltse

Very interesting, so far all these guys are from the 350/460 series print group that I have designated as Group B.


Group B







If you know of more of these 350/460 series Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory #30 "scraps", please post them here.


Thanks,

TED Z
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[tedzan]

Further research has accounted for 27 of these Sweet Caporal Factory #30 "scraps"....all of which are from Group B.

Missing from this group is the Lajoie card.


Berger
Bradley
Burch
Cobb (bat off)
Conroy
Crawford
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Jordan
Lake
Leach
Leifield
Manning
McQuillan
Mullin
Overall
Pelty
Pfeister
Smith (Chi & Bos)
Steinfeldt
Tinker
Wagner
Doc White
Wilhelm
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Wiltse


If anyone knows of a Lajoie with a Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory #30 back...... please show or tell us of this card.


Thanks,

TED Z
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[sreader3]

Hi Ted,

Sorry for the belated response. You've convinced me that Ames is a Group A guy. So here is an updated 460 series profile on which I hope we agree:

Group A:
Ames (Arms High) – Young (Glove Shows)
(consists of 29 350/460 regular print subjects -- your Group A minus super prints)

Group B:
Berger – Wiltse (Pitching)
(consists of 28 350/460 regular print subjects – your Group B)

Group C:
Abbaticchio (Blue Sleeves) – Wiltse (Portrait with Cap)
(consists of 22 460-only subjects not printed with P42 and not part of your "Exclusive 12")

Group D:
Chance (Portrait Yellow Background) – Mathewson (Dark Cap)
(consists of 6 350/460 super prints)

Group E:
Bergen (Catching) – Seymour (Portrait with Cap)
(consists of 12 460-only subjects printed with P42)

Group F:
Crandall (Portrait with Cap) – Wheat
(consists of your “Exclusive 12” 460-only subjects)

* * *

Subject Composition for Backs Printed in 460 Series:

American Beauty 460: B, C, E, F
Broad Leaf 460: A, D
Cycle 460: A, B, C, D, E, F
El Principe de Gales: A, B, C, D, E, F
Hindu (Red): A, D, F
Lenox (Black): A, B, C, D, E
Lenox (Brown): B, E
Old Mill: A, B, C, D, E, F
Piedmont 460/25: A, B, C, D, E, F
Piedmont 460/42: A, B, D, E
Polar Bear: A, B, C, D, E, F
Sweet Caporal 460/25: A, C, D, E
Sweet Caporal 460/30: C, D, E, F
Sweet Caporal 460/42 No Overstrike: A, D, F
Sweet Caporal 460/42 Overstrike: A, B, C, D, E, F
Tolstoi: A, B, C, D, E, F
Uzit: B, C, E, F

Thanks.

Scot

(Note 1: Of course, EPDG, Old Mill, Polar Bear and Tolstoi were earlier-printed with subjects beyond those in the listed groups).

(Note 2: And, naturally, mutual exclusivity attaches with respect to backs which have none of Groups A-F in common).

[Gradedcardman]

Here is a good example of the Brown writing.

[tedzan]

Hi Adam

It's an excellent and clear example of a brown LENOX.

Thanks for posting it,


TED Z
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[tedzan]

Futhermore, there are 6 subjects in the 460-only series that have been confirmed with brown LENOX backs.
They are......

Chase (trophy)
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)

I expect more brown LENOX from the 460-only series will eventually be discovered.


TED Z
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