Mears authentication

[JoeyFarino]

When it comes to game worn merchandise is mears a pretty reputable company?

[drcy]

Game used collectors will say always do your homework, but yes.

[mickeymao34]

see link:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=217374

Many long time game used collector would argue this. With all resources available with modern day technology you are better off to do the "homework" and always question those that are in the biz that are selling for profit. ALWAYS. Remember LOA's and COA's are not even worth the paper its printed on except to those that author them and especially after the deal done. Perfect 10 score should be NOTHING less than anything that can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the item is the real thing. All the scientific mumbo jumbo is nothing more than that unless it can be proven to that fact. Network with game used collectors and seek and ask advice-many will be there to answer the questions you seek.

[dhernandez]

Mike, you made some valid points in that thread but I don't agree fully with your assessment . Mears has been around a long time and proven to be a leader at what they do. Not a game used collector but I do know that they are the most respected in the field.

[sbfinley]

I echo David. I don't collect game used, but from everything I've experienced they are one of the most respected in the field. Mike has a valid point, some level of "homework" must be done if making a purchase (especially a large one), but there is also a place for TPA and TPG companies in this hobby as many collectors enjoy a wide array of items and don't have the time to become an expert on it all. Personally, if I was considering an items and it was authenticated by Mears I would be confident with it if everything else was up to snuff.

[mickeymao34]

I posed this question in Wilt thread but I think it is more appropriate here since the thread is titled and on topic with that auction house. Can anyone chime in to this question: How many of these A10's are evaluated and produced at the request of a AH vs collector request? To me there would seem to be a level of conflict of interest. IMO

[ooo-ribay]

IMHO, 99% of authenticating/grading is a scam. Wish I had thought of it.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

IMHO, 99% of authenticating/grading is a scam. Wish I had thought of it.

From personal experience Mears is in that 99% you mention.

[mickeymao34]

Originally Posted by bnorth

From personal experience Mears is in that 99% you mention.

Did you buy a "game used" jersey from them?

[WindyCityGameUsed]

IMO opinion their are no levels to “homework” either your doing it or you not.

As stated previous IMO best case scenarios involve COA's & LOA’s that are 99% used for rookies as a confidence boost and at its worst from what I have seen can be used as a tool to pass items that are not what they appear to be to the untrained eye.

I would also like to know the percentages of LOA’s generated at collector request (SMALL) compared to auction house request (LARGE).

IMO anything above an A5/6 should have to be 100% photo match and an A10 is the needle in the haystack rarer than industry leader ethics.

At this point in time is anyone that ignorant to think that any 1 person anywhere knows everything about thousands of different style jerseys?

As a collector you cannot afford to not be an expert in what you collect as you can trust no one when it comes to money.

[mickeymao34]

IMO the topic AH have made obvious mistakes in some of they're GU assessments whether on purpose or not-I"ll give them the benefit of doubt that it is a mistake. After all it is just a opinion letter. I believe they are on the belief that they are "thee" standard in the industry and by this only deems them the final say. Collectors are doing they're own research and seeing the discrepancies of what they publish. The scientific lengthy jargon gives the appearance of thorough research. For example the response post to the Magic Johnson jersey with a A10 grading, the poster specifically outlined techniques used to render that this piece is authentic and deserving of the grade. He used a pic that was blurry at best-again i will give him the benefit of doubt due to perhaps hastily posting a retort. Yet, IMO, for a AH that deems itself the leader of grading GU jerseys and its claims to utilize and have access to the best resources (ie/high quality photos) - why did he source a pic that was obviously NOT what he claims it was? Collectors are more savvy these days and do scour the internet to seek out what they seek. From this mistake, one could come to conclude that he had hopes to make it believable that it is indeed authentic. Seriously it doesn't even come close. I hope people do research what they spend they're hard earned money on and not acquire pieces based solely on reputation. Again I would stress that these questions need to be asked, especially from sources that are there to make a profit. This, I believe, is a topic that needs to be addressed to the industry as a whole-but it is the pink elephant in the room that no one wants to discuss.

[mickeymao34]

his own words when displaying the blurred out pic to mask the notch:
"The Magic shirt shows no indentication, and the third Chamberlain shows either no indentation or a very little one. (see graphic Wilt Chamberlain Front Comparison, last image)



This post is also in response to the Magic Johnson shirt currently being offered by Heritage Auctions and hope that the provided image of Magic without the indentations in the numbering supports that opinion also.<-----"the PROVIDED image of Magic without the indentations.....(swaying the public into believing this with a low res blurry pic)

so thus, he clearly
states that the provided image of Magics is without indentations in the numbering supports that opinion also.<-----clearly states the Magic provided w/o indentation...which is false

IMO the specs descriptions were altered to suit the piece

[dhernandez]

Mike, with respect to Mears, the good they have done far outweighs the bad. Mistakes have been made by everyone and at all levels. I'm still in their corner.

[mickeymao34]

I'm sure the guy that shelled out 18k for that Magic is forgiving like you are!

[mickeymao34]

Myself, I would like to see authentications based on facts and NOT theories.

[dhernandez]

Mike, with all due respect. Even if your Magic theory is correct that is only one example. Mears are a respected company that has been around for years and has authenticated and sold too many numerous items to name.

[mickeymao34]

David, There are MANY other examples I just used this one b/c I have been collecting Lakers game used jerseys since 92. And even if this is the only example I know of it is ENOUGH to question the companies authenticating. The Man himself posted in the Wilt thread justifying reasons why he deems the Magic piece offered up in a auction and selling for 18k as real. So either he posted lazy haphazard examples or plain out made in error, he should post and explain why he did indeed make an error. He certainly did post right away in defense of himself in Wilt thread. I'll let others come fourth with examples.

[ooo-ribay]

I have to agree with Mike. Too many of these guys are self proclaimed experts.

[oasis9381]

Since Mikey set me up so well with his last post I guess it is time I chime in. I have been following this post along with the Wilt/Magic Post. I myself contacted MEARS about the Wilt jersey because of so many issues with the jersey. I received pretty much the same response that was posted in thread by Troy.

That however was not the first time in the past several months I have contacted MEARS. I contacted them concerning this lot below that sold for $28K!

#Lot #14:
1991-92 (post November 30th, 1991) Michael Jordan Chicago Bulls World Championship Season Game Worn Home Jersey w/ Sheri Berto Black Memorial Shoulder Band (MEARS A10)

http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.co...entoryid=93740

As a Bulls fan and game worn jersey collector I realized right away something seemed off with this jersey. Once compared to game pics from 1991 and other gamers the issues piled up.

1) The "BULLS" on the front should be screen print, and not Heat pressed vinyl
2) overall spacing of "BULLS" is way too close-
3) space in between the middle of the "U" is far too narrow
4) space between where the "S" curves up and down and middle is too narrow
5) there are black triangle (Notches) on the top and bottom of the "S" in the game shots not present in offered jersey.
6) numbers are spaced too high up on shirt and too close to "BULLS"
7) on the "2" there is a large space of white mesh from where the number curves down to where the 2 diagonal portion comes down. These points are almost touching on jersey offered. Same problem where "2" curves up.
8). Middle portion of "3" comes out too far on offered jersey while on game shots it is much shorter.
9) overall red color of heat press is wrong. Offered jersey is more a fire engine red rather than a true red. Compare to game pics and side by side of another offered (signed jersey in the side by side pic below) game jersey that compares much better to actual game shots.

My response from MEARS was that there were 41 home games that season and was I comparing to all games, lol. I challenged them to find any pic that even resembled their jersey and I never heard back. IMO this jersey was poorly customized from a blank jersey and has zero chance of being game worn let alone being a A10. Keep in mind this jersey sold for $28K!! There are a few others that have sold recently I'm having trouble matching up with photos....

I know every AH has things fall between the cracks and it is ultimately on the buyer to do their own research. With the internet today, it is very easy to RULE OUT a jersey as being game worn. In the end, pictures never lie.

Jeff

[ooo-ribay]

The top and bottom two on the left hand side are the "bad" jersey?

[oasis9381]

1st pic with 4 squares, top left is "bad" and other pics, left is "bad"

[WindyCityGameUsed]

Originally Posted by oasis9381

Since Mikey set me up so well with his last post I guess it is time I chime in. I have been following this post along with the Wilt/Magic Post. I myself contacted MEARS about the Wilt jersey because of so many issues with the jersey. I received pretty much the same response that was posted in thread by Troy.

That however was not the first time in the past several months I have contacted MEARS. I contacted them concerning this lot below that sold for $28K!

#Lot #14:
1991-92 (post November 30th, 1991) Michael Jordan Chicago Bulls World Championship Season Game Worn Home Jersey w/ Sheri Berto Black Memorial Shoulder Band (MEARS A10)

http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.co...entoryid=93740

As a Bulls fan and game worn jersey collector I realized right away something seemed off with this jersey. Once compared to game pics from 1991 and other gamers the issues piled up.

1) The "BULLS" on the front should be screen print, and not Heat pressed vinyl
2) overall spacing of "BULLS" is way too close-
3) space in between the middle of the "U" is far too narrow
4) space between where the "S" curves up and down and middle is too narrow
5) there are black triangle (Notches) on the top and bottom of the "S" in the game shots not present in offered jersey.
6) numbers are spaced too high up on shirt and too close to "BULLS"
7) on the "2" there is a large space of white mesh from where the number curves down to where the 2 diagonal portion comes down. These points are almost touching on jersey offered. Same problem where "2" curves up.
8). Middle portion of "3" comes out too far on offered jersey while on game shots it is much shorter.
9) overall red color of heat press is wrong. Offered jersey is more a fire engine red rather than a true red. Compare to game pics and side by side of another offered (signed jersey in the side by side pic below) game jersey that compares much better to actual game shots.

My response from MEARS was that there were 41 home games that season and was I comparing to all games, lol. I challenged them to find any pic that even resembled their jersey and I never heard back. IMO this jersey was poorly customized from a blank jersey and has zero chance of being game worn let alone being a A10. Keep in mind this jersey sold for $28K!! There are a few others that have sold recently I'm having trouble matching up with photos....

I know every AH has things fall between the cracks and it is ultimately on the buyer to do their own research. With the internet today, it is very easy to RULE OUT a jersey as being game worn. In the end, pictures never lie.

Jeff

Makes you wonder if its as simple as mistakes happen. I give people more credit than that and this hobby is 2 sinister 4 me 2 be giving the benefit of the doubt.

Not only did the Jordan get a passing grade it was given an A10!! WTF is that all about? Their highest grade possible and there is no tangle proof that it was ever worn.......UNBELIEVABLE

When I was in rookie ball I thought those letters & grades meant something but after time you realize that you have 2B your own authenticator/expert unless you enjoy getting ripped off by the plethora of scumbags operating within the hobby.

NOT THAT THIS EVER HAPPENS BUT just imagine the the profit margin on a created superstar jersey that sells at auction

Disturbing how many of these so called A10's are on the street these day's accompanying items at AH's.

[mickeymao34]

Originally Posted by oasis9381

Since Mikey set me up so well with his last post I guess it is time I chime in. I have been following this post along with the Wilt/Magic Post. I myself contacted MEARS about the Wilt jersey because of so many issues with the jersey. I received pretty much the same response that was posted in thread by Troy.

That however was not the first time in the past several months I have contacted MEARS. I contacted them concerning this lot below that sold for $28K!

#Lot #14:
1991-92 (post November 30th, 1991) Michael Jordan Chicago Bulls World Championship Season Game Worn Home Jersey w/ Sheri Berto Black Memorial Shoulder Band (MEARS A10)

http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.co...entoryid=93740

As a Bulls fan and game worn jersey collector I realized right away something seemed off with this jersey. Once compared to game pics from 1991 and other gamers the issues piled up.

1) The "BULLS" on the front should be screen print, and not Heat pressed vinyl
2) overall spacing of "BULLS" is way too close-
3) space in between the middle of the "U" is far too narrow
4) space between where the "S" curves up and down and middle is too narrow
5) there are black triangle (Notches) on the top and bottom of the "S" in the game shots not present in offered jersey.
6) numbers are spaced too high up on shirt and too close to "BULLS"
7) on the "2" there is a large space of white mesh from where the number curves down to where the 2 diagonal portion comes down. These points are almost touching on jersey offered. Same problem where "2" curves up.
8). Middle portion of "3" comes out too far on offered jersey while on game shots it is much shorter.
9) overall red color of heat press is wrong. Offered jersey is more a fire engine red rather than a true red. Compare to game pics and side by side of another offered (signed jersey in the side by side pic below) game jersey that compares much better to actual game shots.

My response from MEARS was that there were 41 home games that season and was I comparing to all games, lol. I challenged them to find any pic that even resembled their jersey and I never heard back. IMO this jersey was poorly customized from a blank jersey and has zero chance of being game worn let alone being a A10. Keep in mind this jersey sold for $28K!! There are a few others that have sold recently I'm having trouble matching up with photos....

I know every AH has things fall between the cracks and it is ultimately on the buyer to do their own research. With the internet today, it is very easy to RULE OUT a jersey as being game worn. In the end, pictures never lie.

Jeff

Jeff, that was a great post and, yourself, being a game worn BULLS collector have the "eyes" to catch a faux pas such as this. Thanks for clarifying the ideology of that because it looks right to the layman its gotta be right. Great point to point presentation. Again I question how they quantify a A10 minus a photomatch or proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

[mickeymao34]

Originally Posted by WindyCityGameUsed

Makes you wonder if its as simple as mistakes happen. I give people more credit than that and this hobby is 2 sinister 4 me 2 be giving the benefit of the doubt.

Not only did the Jordan get a passing grade it was given an A10!! WTF is that all about? Their highest grade possible and there is no tangle proof that it was ever worn.......UNBELIEVABLE

When I was in rookie ball I thought those letters & grades meant something but after time you realize that you have 2B your own authenticator/expert unless you enjoy getting ripped off by the plethora of scumbags operating within the hobby.

NOT THAT THIS EVER HAPPENS BUT just imagine the the profit margin on a created superstar jersey that sells at auction

Disturbing how many of these so called A10's are on the street these day's accompanying items at AH's.

Ron, It would be interesting to scan over AH's catalogs and see how often the A10s are utilized in lots. Would there be some houses that utilize them more than others as a selling point? Makes me wonder if there exist a tacit agreement between authenticator and companies wishing to sell item being authenticated.

[keithsky]

The higher the grade on a game used item not only does the consignor make more money but so does an auction house. Makes you wonder. Not accusing anyone just saying.

[mickeymao34]

Originally Posted by oasis9381

Since Mikey set me up so well with his last post I guess it is time I chime in. I have been following this post along with the Wilt/Magic Post. I myself contacted MEARS about the Wilt jersey because of so many issues with the jersey. I received pretty much the same response that was posted in thread by Troy.

That however was not the first time in the past several months I have contacted MEARS. I contacted them concerning this lot below that sold for $28K!

#Lot #14:
1991-92 (post November 30th, 1991) Michael Jordan Chicago Bulls World Championship Season Game Worn Home Jersey w/ Sheri Berto Black Memorial Shoulder Band (MEARS A10)

http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.co...entoryid=93740

As a Bulls fan and game worn jersey collector I realized right away something seemed off with this jersey. Once compared to game pics from 1991 and other gamers the issues piled up.

1) The "BULLS" on the front should be screen print, and not Heat pressed vinyl
2) overall spacing of "BULLS" is way too close-
3) space in between the middle of the "U" is far too narrow
4) space between where the "S" curves up and down and middle is too narrow
5) there are black triangle (Notches) on the top and bottom of the "S" in the game shots not present in offered jersey.
6) numbers are spaced too high up on shirt and too close to "BULLS"
7) on the "2" there is a large space of white mesh from where the number curves down to where the 2 diagonal portion comes down. These points are almost touching on jersey offered. Same problem where "2" curves up.
8). Middle portion of "3" comes out too far on offered jersey while on game shots it is much shorter.
9) overall red color of heat press is wrong. Offered jersey is more a fire engine red rather than a true red. Compare to game pics and side by side of another offered (signed jersey in the side by side pic below) game jersey that compares much better to actual game shots.

My response from MEARS was that there were 41 home games that season and was I comparing to all games, lol. I challenged them to find any pic that even resembled their jersey and I never heard back. IMO this jersey was poorly customized from a blank jersey and has zero chance of being game worn let alone being a A10. Keep in mind this jersey sold for $28K!! There are a few others that have sold recently I'm having trouble matching up with photos....

I know every AH has things fall between the cracks and it is ultimately on the buyer to do their own research. With the internet today, it is very easy to RULE OUT a jersey as being game worn. In the end, pictures never lie.

Jeff

Hoop-style from eBAy, a will discussed jersey customizer, has had several jerseys that listed on eBay for long periods of times without selling and some of those have appeared and now appear in this AH's Auction. Not saying this is his work but he has stated he has made jerseys per customers request. His Lakers Chuck Nevitt currently listed in lastest auction. Not saying the Nevitt is bad, it actually is spec correct but i cannot find pics or videos to match the spacing. But then again there does not exist a whole lotta pics of Chuck N. in a Lakers uni. Whether he is the consignor or not -who knows only he and the AH can answer that.

for example lot #995 could this be the same jersey still listed on eBay? Could be wrong but lot of mesh holes match up.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Calvin--1982...:0jsAAOSwyjBW2

[oasis9381]

I agree with Mickey on the Murphy. Also, the David Thompson Nuggets jersey appears to be the same jersey that is listed by Hoop-style.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/David-Thomps..._qi=RTM2247625
Comparing the jersey itself to game shots lead me to believe this jersey is custom.

The spacing of the "3"'s are both too high compared to "DENVER" and too close together. The cutout portion of the "e" also seem too large compared to game shot. Additionally the middle section of the "3" comes out too far on the AH jersey. It extends past were the top and bottom portions of the "3" curve down and up. Also a quick observation of the condition of lettering and numbering seems too crisp. Having held in person many jerseys from this era which would have seen a lot of use and laundering you would tend to see much more fraying around edges and wrinkling within the letters and numbers. The Rockets Murphy is also super crisp!

[mickeymao34]

Jeff, once again great eye! I wonder how many of these Hoopstyle jerseys reside in collections that the collector believe to be the real thing . It would be interesting, but tedious , to review AH catalogs and see how many of these jerseys appear as game worn lots. For some reason he favors the Rockets as team of choice for creations. I would guess because he fell into an abundance of Rocket blanks. Also there always seems to be a David Tnompson jersey appear in every other auction. As does Dan Issel and Alex English.

[WindyCityGameUsed]

IMO overstated authenticity and/or outright created/fake is the biggest issue industry wide stifling new blood into the hobby while hurting values for legitimate items across the board. The existing shill bidding problem is a pimple on the hobby’s backside in comparison.

Unfortunately this is a losing battle on all fronts with the biggest being $$$ = influence and speaking out about scams is somehow viewed as worse than the actual scam within the industry cause IMO it breaks the code of silence which will not be tolerated.

[bnorth]

From personal experience. I recently bought a bat from Mears. When I seen the listing and when I placed my bid the auction description was "game used professional model". Then once the auction ended the description changed and "game used" was no longer included in the item description or on the LOA that came with the bat, now it is a "professional Model".

I was going to take before and after pictures of several listings in their current auction to see if it was an isolated incident but decided against it because nobody would care anyway.

The really sad and pathetic part is it was not even a high end item that being "game used" would have mattered that much in the final price like it does on most items.

It was my one and only time bidding with an auction house and probably my last.

[mickeymao34]

Originally Posted by WindyCityGameUsed

IMO overstated authenticity and/or outright created/fake is the biggest issue industry wide stifling new blood into the hobby while hurting values for legitimate items across the board. The existing shill bidding problem is a pimple on the hobby’s backside in comparison.

Unfortunately this is a losing battle on all fronts with the biggest being $$$ = influence and speaking out about scams is somehow viewed as worse than the actual scam within the industry cause IMO it breaks the code of silence which will not be tolerated.

Ron, Excellent point.A true Open forums should be ABOUT these things that SHOULD not be discussed. IMO speaking out puts a target on your back to be discredited. All these AHs love to preach about transparency and honesty but I believe the opposite is true. They don't like it and they follow they're saltiness with threats of law suits. They will go out of they're way to make you look like the BAD guy that is harboring ill feelings for the AH in question. I don't see why an item cannot be discussed, after all it is out for the public to view and to be deemed worthy to bid or not to bid. An open forum about memorabilia should be just that-a forum to discuss one's opinion of any item without the backlash.

[mickeymao34]

Originally Posted by bnorth

From personal experience. I recently bought a bat from Mears. When I seen the listing and when I placed my bid the auction description was "game used professional model". Then once the auction ended the description changed and "game used" was no longer included in the item description or on the LOA that came with the bat, now it is a "professional Model".

I was going to take before and after pictures of several listings in their current auction to see if it was an isolated incident but decided against it because nobody would care anyway.

The really sad and pathetic part is it was not even a high end item that being "game used" would have mattered that much in the final price like it does on most items.

It was my one and only time bidding with an auction house and probably my last.

Ben, thanks for posting this. I think it holds merit whether its a small valued lot or not! Speaks volumes about the integrity and honesty of a company. If a company is wiling to go this far for a lower value item, think about what they would do to justify a high dollar item.

[mickeymao34]

Originally Posted by WindyCityGameUsed

IMO overstated authenticity and/or outright created/fake is the biggest issue industry wide stifling new blood into the hobby while hurting values for legitimate items across the board. The existing shill bidding problem is a pimple on the hobby’s backside in comparison.

Unfortunately this is a losing battle on all fronts with the biggest being $$$ = influence and speaking out about scams is somehow viewed as worse than the actual scam within the industry cause IMO it breaks the code of silence which will not be tolerated.

Ron, one more thing. I'm sure these AHs put a lot of pressure on forum site owners. Place yourself in forum site owners, how would you like to get 20-30 calls a day to take action? Not defending these guys but you got to feel for these forum site owners. I'm sure it takes a toll on them. And I think that suspensions and banning for speaking on pertinent topics are really uncalled for. But it does happen on other sites.

[mickeymao34]

Originally Posted by oasis9381

I agree with Mickey on the Murphy. Also, the David Thompson Nuggets jersey appears to be the same jersey that is listed by Hoop-style.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/David-Thomps..._qi=RTM2247625
Comparing the jersey itself to game shots lead me to believe this jersey is custom.

The spacing of the "3"'s are both too high compared to "DENVER" and too close together. The cutout portion of the "e" also seem too large compared to game shot. Additionally the middle section of the "3" comes out too far on the AH jersey. It extends past were the top and bottom portions of the "3" curve down and up. Also a quick observation of the condition of lettering and numbering seems too crisp. Having held in person many jerseys from this era which would have seen a lot of use and laundering you would tend to see much more fraying around edges and wrinkling within the letters and numbers. The Rockets Murphy is also super crisp!

Jeff, there exist the notion that common players are rarely if ever faked. I have been asked the question "why the heck would anyone fake a common lowly player? " many many times from customizers. Seriously that is this guy's MO for sure! So the notion that no one would create a common player b/c there is no money to be made on common players is all BS.