Can a T206 have both Red Hindu back and Uzit?

[Blunder19]

I noticed some cards on the T206 Distribution PDF show that both backs are possible for the same card... Wondering if that is accurate...

if a card can not have both Uzit and Redhindu backs.. wondering how we know that ..

thanks

Jamie

[tedzan]

Red HINDU and UZIT cards in the 350/460 series are mutually exclusive. T206's in the 460-Only series can be found with both red HINDU and UZIT backs.



TED Z

[White Borders]

Yes,

Print Group 4 / 460 Only Subjects can be found with both Red Hindu & Uzit backs.

Best Regards,
Craig

Edited - Looks like Ted was one step ahead of me, as usual

[atx840]

Tim C posted this list in another thread. Link

Possible Uzit/Red Hindu Subjects
Crandall (Portrait w/ Cap)
Devore
Duffy
Ford
Gandil
Geyer
Hummel
McGraw (Glove At Hip)
Pfeffer
Sheckard (Glove Showing)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Wheat

[steve B]

Originally Posted by atx840

Tim C posted this list in another thread. Link

Possible Uzit/Red Hindu Subjects
Crandall (Portrait w/ Cap)
Devore
Duffy
Ford
Gandil
Geyer
Hummel
McGraw (Glove At Hip)
Pfeffer
Sheckard (Glove Showing)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Wheat

Another exclusive group of 12.

I think that pretty much narrows down the number of subjects on a sheet. The number of cards is still not nailed down, but eventually.....

Steve B

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by steve B

Another exclusive group of 12.

I think that pretty much narrows down the number of subjects on a sheet. The number of cards is still not nailed down, but eventually.....

Steve B

If I recall correctly, you have a printing background; therefore, you appreciate my contention that American Lithographic's (ALC) printing press was an 18" (or 19") track
machine that printed the T206's and T205's. This track width translates to 12 - T206 size (1 7/16 " ) cards across a given sheet. This is a constant. The length of these sheets is a variable which possibly comprised of as many as 144 (12 rows x 12 across) T206 cards.

Furthermore, we have examples of lithographic sheets (and posters) printed at ALC that are 18" wide.......

An 18" wide x 33" long sheet of PIEDMONT cigarette packs.

Patrick recently posted a RECRUIT advertising poster (18" wide x 24" long).

Last year at an Antique shop in Paradise (Pennsylvania), there was an original PIEDMONT advertising poster identical in size to the above noted RECRUIT advertising poster (18" wide x 24" long).



TED Z

[steve B]

1 7/16x12 =17.25 That leaves pretty tight margins on an 18" sheet. Doable, but not a best practice even by the 1980's. 19" would work a bit better, and would be fine for an 18x24 finished product like a poster.

19x25 would give a 12x9 card array, which seems reasonable. 108 cards to a sheet.


I think my calling it 12 subjects confuses many people, I mean that one sheet would have 12 different players, with some unknown number of each player on the sheet.

I know this conflicts with the 17 theory that's out there, but this group of 12 cards with a specific frouping of backs combined with the group of 12 from the 150 series that has no 350 backs and no overprint backs would seem to point towards the 12 subjects.

I'm still unsure what standard paper sizes were in 1910, currently 19x 25 isn't standard. 17x20 and 25x36 are usual.
It would also be surprising if ALC only had 18-19" presses. Most places that are general job shops have a variety of sizes to make the jobs more efficient. Setup time and cutting time would kill the price of say 1000 business cards if they were done on a big sheet instead of a small one.
I could also see a volume job like T206s being done on a larger sheet.

Steve B

Steve B

[White Borders]

Originally Posted by steve B

... I mean that one sheet would have 12 different players, with some unknown number of each player on the sheet.

Steve,

I don't know much about the lithographic process, but in order to have multiple numbers of a given player on a sheet, wouldn't it require multiple stones for that player? And doesn't it require different stones for each color? It seems like that is a lot of extra stones and less economical than having a single set of stones for each player.

Please understand I'm not doubting your knowledge, I'm just hoping that with your knowledge you can enlighten me a bit.

Thanks and best regards,
Craig

[steve B]

Originally Posted by White Borders

Steve,

I don't know much about the lithographic process, but in order to have multiple numbers of a given player on a sheet, wouldn't it require multiple stones for that player? And doesn't it require different stones for each color? It seems like that is a lot of extra stones and less economical than having a single set of stones for each player.

Please understand I'm not doubting your knowledge, I'm just hoping that with your knowledge you can enlighten me a bit.

Thanks and best regards,
Craig

Almost, one stone for each color.

But only one stone of each color for the entire sheet.

The shop I worked at did something like a million deposit slips for a bank. 25x36 sheet, about 64 per sheet.

In 1910 they would print transfers for each color and use those to layout the stone(or plate) That's where the alignment marks at the halfway points of the border come from. Different positions had the alignment marks erased differently. I'm hoping that eventually we will be able to figure out the overall makeup of a sheet from those tiny differences.

Having another group of 12 without the exceptions and maybes of the 150 group is going to be fun.

Steve B

[White Borders]

Originally Posted by steve B

Almost, one stone for each color.

But only one stone of each color for the entire sheet.

The shop I worked at did something like a million deposit slips for a bank. 25x36 sheet, about 64 per sheet.

In 1910 they would print transfers for each color and use those to layout the stone(or plate) That's where the alignment marks at the halfway points of the border come from. Different positions had the alignment marks erased differently. I'm hoping that eventually we will be able to figure out the overall makeup of a sheet from those tiny differences.

Having another group of 12 without the exceptions and maybes of the 150 group is going to be fun.

Steve B

Ok, I've always had it in mind that it was kinda like typeset with say 108 individual stones put together in a 12 x 8 layout then all pressed onto the sheet simultaneously - seemed like a lot of setup work! Transferring the individual subjects to one stone then printing a color on multiple sheets makes more sense.

Thanks and best regards,
Craig