ESPN & THE MITCHELL STEROIDS REPORT

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Posted By: Richard Simon

There is a report on ESPN2 that Roger Clemens former trainer obtained steroids.
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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

That's old news...I think. I read somewhere about a year ago that his trainer and former bullpen catcher in Toronto was tied to the steroids investigation. I believe that the falling out between Roger Clemens and manager Tim Johnson was more related to Clemens' relationship with this trainer than it was the whole Viet Nam story. Now that I think about it though I might not have read that, but got that secondhand at a Lincoln Saltdogs game where Tim Johnson is the manager. Anyway I think there's going to be some real shockers today when the Mitchell report comes out.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

if involved , definetely would tell you why he has acted weird in signing a contract the past couple of years.

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Posted By: Richard Simon

Clemens will be named in the Mitchell report according to ESPN.
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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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Posted By: barrysloate

Apparently a number of Yankees will be named. Wouldn't it be shorter just to make a list of those who didn't partake?

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Posted By: Matt

Report due at 2 PM EST and Selig to have a presser at 4:30 EST.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I read a story that said some of the names will shock you and I thought to myself,yeah if youre the most naive person in the world. There couldnt be a name on the list that would shock me because i work at a restaurant that has alot of customers from locals gym's and I've seen plenty of people who have done one thing or another and they range from the obvious to people you wouldnt have guessed in a million years. That might be why these steroid investigations dont bother me in the least when names come out,it's not like only a few people in the world do them.

Only the people who actually got caught after the rules were in place are guilty of cheating in my mind and look at some of those people,again ones you wouldve never guessed. Some of the minor leaguers who get caught, theyre 155 pounds soaking wet. Dan Serafini was the latest guy to be caught among major leaguers,hes 6"1 185 lb lefty reliever. Not the kind of person everyone is on the witch hunt for,he doesnt throw hard and he hasnt hit a home run in his career,so if anyone is surprised by a name that could be on the report,youre in some wierd type of denial of whats going on around

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Posted By: Rob Scales

It might also explain why he threw the bat shard at Piazza...

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Posted By: Jason L

to see A-Rod's name.
might see Jr....I hope not, but all the injuries make him suspect.
Clemens was an obvious one

Most of the Mets and Orioles will likely be named

and probably Honus Wagner (I mean, look at those arms he had!)

Pete Rose will probably be named too...just because.

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Posted By: Richard Simon

According to a source, no current Mets are named.
Several Yankees will be named,,, several means more than 2.

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

[Archive]

Posted By: Richard Simon

Andy Pettite has just been named by ESPN.

--

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

[Archive]

Posted By: dstudeba

Pete Rose will probably be named too...just because.


That was funny.

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Posted By: Jay

I have heard that Damon, Farnsworth, Petitte and Clemens are on the list.

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Posted By: Steve Murray

makes me wonder, "what real effect will Bonds' alleged (or actual) use have on his HOF chances and legacy?"

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Posted By: Richard Simon

If only they had all stuck to the Babe's way - hot dogs and beer.
Bonds will not get into the HOF now, and Clemens won't either, depending on how bad he comes out of this.
--

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Damn....Jason Varitek named in the report.

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Posted By: Jim Crandell

Hopefully all will be banned from ever entering the Hall of Fame.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

There won't be a formal ban, because there will not be any real proof other than hearsay...and none of this will go to court. But I think there will be an informal agreement amongst the writers to keep these players out. There may be a movement many years down the road when a lot of these steroid era players enter their twilight where some sympathy votes may start happening.

If nearly everyone was on steroids doesn't that even the playing field?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Glad I'm not an 'investor' in the shiny stuff. Albert Pujols will be named in the report!!!

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Posted By: Richard Simon

I have deleted this list of alleged players, due to errors by NBC.
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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

[Archive]

Posted By: Jay

Interesting story on the genesis of the steroids problem:

http://baseballevolution.com/asher/bagwellconspiracy.html

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Posted By: Jim Crandell

Jay,

I agree. I posted this on the other thread. It all seems to make sense.

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Posted By: Alan U

Richard,

If that really is the list, with the few people Mitchell was able to interview, the actual list of all offenders is huge.

-Alan

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Posted By: Joann

Both this list and the one in the other thread appear to have come from CNBC, who has since taken down the article.

If this it the list, I guess my initial reaction is ... that's all? Really? Ho-hum. I'm a bit shocked. I guess I thought there would be some surprises, but not really. Heck, there aren't even enough people on the list for there to be a lot by way of surprise.

I only see 3 or 4 that have ever played for the Tigers as far as I know. If that's it, then I'm back to ho-hum.

Maybe the real bullets will be in the parts of the report that don't name names, something like a statement that 90% of pitchers and 70% of field players between the years of X and Y took steroids.

Because if the whole bang is limited to this list, then it's not that big a deal as far as I can tell.

J

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Posted By: Ed Hans

The reaction of the players union will be VERY interesting. I'm betting that Fehr and/or his henchman/poop boy Orza will be their usual sanctimonious selves and threaten to file suit on behalf on the "innocent" players.

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Posted By: Eric B

Roger Clemens would be a no-brainer. Look at his last 4 years with Boston. He was 1 game over .500 and washed-up. Boston knew it and wouldn't resign. he then went through an off-season metamorphosis and became dominant. Look at the stats!

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Posted By: PC

Kudos to Jay Behrens -- he called it on Clemens about two years ago on this board. Many (including me) disagreed, thinking that Clemens' physique didn't fit the prototype of a 'roid user.

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Posted By: Glen V

What team did Mitchell work for? I'm expecting no Sox to be on the list, but every single member of the Yankees...

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Posted By: Richard Simon

How about Varitek, Nomar, Damon?
Mitchell has been a bastion of integrity his entire life and he is above reproach.
--

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

[Archive]

Posted By: TONY Galovich

Lasorda, where is Tommy's name?
I know he did the juice !!
Just look at his frame.
It's so obvious

Also is this Seligs last press conference at 4:30 today?
Someone has to take the blame
Selig seems to be the easiest choice as to who has to go
Guess he can go back to selling cars?
Reportedly He has the best choice of previously Used Yugo's in the country, bar none

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Posted By: paulstratton

Looks like we'll have to put an asterisk next to the Sox two Series wins, their leader was cheating. Maybe he wouldn't have bee able to catch all those games if he were banged up. The Cardinals deserve an asterisk too if Pujols was cheating. Clemens' victory total...asterisk. Thanks for telling us that Fernando Tatis was a juicer. Didn't Albert Belle retire like 10 years ago?

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Posted By: PC

Mitchell press conference highlights:

(1) Mitchell made a direct connection between the widespread use of illegal performance enhancing drugs in major league baseball, and the rampant steroid use among high school athletes ("hundreds of thousands" of high school athletes).

(2) He noted that almost none of the active players responded to the invitation to cooperate with the investigation.

(3) Regarding the MLB drug-testing program, adopted in 2003 and which began in 2003 -- many players received advance notice of testing. While the program has improved, it falls short of "current best practices" in drug testing. Some improvements suggested in the report can be unilaterally implemented by the commissioner, and others will require players' union support.

(4) The report will recommend that: (i) MLB form a department of investigation to detect steroid use, (ii) improve educational programs about the danger of use, and (iii) implement a "state of the art" drug testing program (administered exclusively by a completely independent organization, with results transparent to the public, with unannounced year round testing).

(5) An effective drug-testing program was actively delayed by the players' union, although ownership did not force the issue.

(6) Regarding disclosure of names, the goal of the investigation is to bring "this troubling chapter to a close", and prevent the future use of such substances. Goal is not to start numerous disciplinary proceedings, which will not be productive. Many of the incidents discovered occurred long ago -- some 9 years ago, and many before 2005, when there was no penalty for testing positive.

(7) The problem can only be solved with cooperation of everyone in baseball. Commissioner should give most a chance for a "fresh start", except where the integrity of the game is implicated. Giving most a pass now will give the commissioner the basis of imposing strong discipline for future violations.

(8) Players who used illegal performance enhancers put others at a competitive disadvantage, and were wrong, but the commissioner, players' union and owners are all to blame -- a collective failure to act, which gave rise to an environment where such substances were used.

(9) The public's focus should be on the report's recommendations, not the players named.

[edited to fix typos]

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Posted By: fkw

It (was) the Steroid Era. Bonds, McGwire, Clemens, Pujols, Sosa, etc. will all be in the Hall of Fame.

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Posted By: davicycleback

Long before this report, some people noted that Clemens signed these unusual one season, or even portion of one season, contracts. Most players, of course, want long term contracts. Clemens' signed at the last second contracts meant he was not under any MLB contract during the off season and wasn't drug tested. MLB can't require tests for someone who isn't a member of the league, and possibly retired for what anyone knew, and Clemens' heartbeat contracts created long durations where he wasn't a member.

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Posted By: shane leonard

I find it funny how the topic of steroids has consumed baseball conversation for the past three years. Steroids were being passed out to teams in 1996 in hopes of bringing back the fans to this great game of ours. Steroids were not a bad thing back in 1995 because there was not a rule/law that said it was wrong for a player to take it. Bud Selig allowed the use of steroids to benefit him just like Clemens and other ball players used it to benefit themselves. If Selig had a problem with steroids or HGH, he could have stopped McGwire, Sosa or Bonds from breaking records. Instead, he decided to let it continue because he wanted the revenue and publicity of it all for baseball and himself. He could have so easily put a stop to it years ago, but financially it was best for the game to let it continue.
There are so many other people that have used HGH/Roids in baseball that are not being exposed because they don't have a trainer ratting them out.
The main reason why a Clemens would desire to be on steroids is not to be stronger necessarily, but more importantly so he can train harder and so that the body can recover quicker. Most people have in their minds that the steroid guy is the meat head with 22' arms with no neck. You are right when you see someone like that, but it can also be the Kevin Brown or the Andy Pettitte type body that needs recovery.( to go every five days.)
This report was done in the middle of the off season so it did not interrupt the game/post season/records being broken. Selig placed this to come out right now because no one is chasing a major record.
I am not a user of steroids, however I am around them where I train everyday. I think it is stupid to use the steroids if you have a family and you have a normal job like the rest of us. However, if your paycheck is based upon performances on the field and your opponents are using them to get ahead of you. I think I would probably consider them myself.

Best Regards,
Shane

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Posted By: Matt

david cycleback - that is genius. Never even crossed my mind.

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Posted By: Richard Simon

I have deleted this list of alleged player violators, due to errors by AOL News.
--
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

[Archive]

Posted By: Matt

I'd love to see a breakdown by team to see how evenly spread the list is; Were there some clubhouses were he made no headway and got 0 names?

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Posted By: keyway

Of coarse Baseball knew steroids were being used. They did not care because Baseball was still trying to recover from the strike and know we had a homerun derby getting fans back. They still don't care and neither does the players union. Money, money ,money, thats all it is about. Who cares if these guys all die young as long as they can line thier poskets with money. The players are the fools and will one day have to pay for it.

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Posted By: Rob

With respect to which teams have the most implicated names, is it true that Mitchell is employed in the Red Sox organization? I thought I read that somewhere ... (no, I'm not trying to be an obnoxious Yankee fan)

Rob

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Posted By: Richard Simon

Mitchell is a minority owner of the Red Sox (very small piece).
However he has an unmatched record of public service and his integrity has never been questioned.
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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Excellent summation, Keyway.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

So no Pujols?

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Posted By: Randy Trierweiler

Bonds is not on the list?

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Posted By: Mark

Richard:

No Sosa or McGwire (as originally indicated?) Glad I am not a betting man, as I thought for sure that they would be heading this list.

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Posted By: Chris Counts

The CNBC list, which came out a few hours before the press conference, only had about half the names right ... no Pujols, Garciaparra, Bagwell, Wood, Prior, Damon, Bret Boone, Aaron Boone, Varitek and Pudge Rodriquez ...

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Posted By: PC

The list posted above is not accurate.

Here is the report -- you can use the search/find function to search the pdf for your favorite players ...

http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf

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Posted By: jerms

The bottom line is -- no one really cares too much that these guys are using steroids, almost 80 million tickets were sold to games last year, so the fans dont care too much, and since it doesnt hurt their bottom line, the owners dont care either.

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Posted By: howard

Rob, the relationship between Mitchell and the Red Sox is a legitimate concern. While there seems to be some question as to whether or not he actually owns a piece of the Sox there is no doubt that he is part of their front office and draws a salary from them. As such I believe he was an inappropriate choice to lead this investigation regardless of his outstanding public and private careers.

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Posted By: Matt

Yahoo List:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ag5TO4nM2uVXclfHf9eRJ5M5nYcB?slug=ys-mitchellnames121307&prov=yhoo&type=lgns