T206 Wagner Sheet... here we go again

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Posted By: Scott B.

T206 Wagner uncut strip is once again available in auction (Lelands May 2007). In the description, it says "...It is also one of only two Wagners known that we can trace back to sheet form, the other having been recently reported to have sold for a whooping $2.3 million....." That implies the PSA8 Wagner was once from a sheet. I wonder whether they have any prove on that. That auction has a hidden reserve as well. I hope the consignor is not hoping to get $400k to $500k out of it which is the "estimate".

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Posted By: MVSNYC

I was at the Sotheby's Halper sale about 7 years ago, it sold for around $80,000...what makes Leland's think this will sell for $400-500K?

my estimate: $200K

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Posted By: Wesley

That strip has sold several times since the Halper sale. It never sold for more than $100K.

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

It will sell for at least 150,000 because people believe what they read. Plus the buyers of this item probally are not board members or even really baseball card collectors. Just investors or people who buy items for social statis reasons... IMO only.. JC

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Posted By: MikeU

Quiz: Who was the orginal buyer of the Lelands strip from the Wagner estate?






















Answer: Wayne Varner

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I believe Barry Halper was 1st to own it.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Hey guys, examine this so-called "strip" closely.....these 5 cards were pieced and pasted together
on a blank-back strip of cardboard.
No actual production run UNCUT (horizontal) strip of T206's would have lines between each card.

Also, the colors on some of these cards are incomplete. The CYoung is the best example of this,
and Bowerman, also.
This is further reinforcement that cards were pieced together....by whom and when, that I cannot
answer.

It's still a great piece; but, it should not be advertised as an "uncut strip".

TED Z

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Posted By: MVSNYC

Ted- i thought i noticed lines between the players too, which would NOT make sense for an UNCUT strip...hmmm...

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Posted By: Dylan

Wow, you mean this item was just put together by someone? Man i'd hope people would notice something like that

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Posted By: peter chao

Leland's has been in business for a long time, there is no excuse for them to advertise this as an uncut strip.

Peter

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Posted By: ScottIngold

Ted,

If thats the case . Than how has this made the rounds for the past few years with nobody mentioning it ? I mean this has been handled by some pretty big people in the hobby. Right ?

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Posted By: E, Daniel

If it was a strip sample, wouldn't it make every sense for there to be lines to cut along to seperate the cards?
I would guess it was a 'sample' given to honus, which he decided was a bad idea to have printed up for whatever reason.....and the later version was a full sheet T206 sans lines.

But it makes more sense as a strip, than a cut down part of sheet, given the lines...no?


Daniel

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Posted By: MVSNYC

in Leland's defense, it has always been known & advertised as "an uncut strip"...

maybe those lines are just score lines? not sure...

i am positive that there are a few board members who have held this strip...what do you think?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Having watched it sell since the Halper auction, I've always been surprised it didn't sell for more. $80,000 or whatever for a single Wagner isn't much these days. Also, realize this is the only known Wagner proof and it evidently belonged to Wagner. So I don't think it's a stretch for someone to claim it's been undervalued.

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Posted By: Brett

I was surprised that it never sold for more than $80 000 or so because if its the "proof" card of Wagner, wouldn't it sell for more than what PSA 1 Wagners are selling for ? You'd think it would sell for a hell of alot more money. Well, atleast I think so anyways

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Posted By: MVSNYC

hmmm, just a thought...

would it bring more money, if it were cut from the sheet and slabbed (totally upfront and even list on the flip that it is a printer's proof, cut from a sheet)...it is the only known proof, i think it would sell for a heck of alot more...?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I was thinking the same thing ... That a single Wagner proof in same condition would sell for well more than $100,000. In a PSA label, people would go nuts over such a proof. Which would support that the panel has been undervalued.

Compared to other Wagner sales, there's no way this panel has been overvalued.

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Posted By: David Smith

Don't say this in a public forum because now some rich but misguided fool will go and do it, thereby destroying another piece of History.


David

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Posted By: MVSNYC

what i suggested might be viewed as sacrilegious, but to be honest, aren't all proof cards cut from a larger printer's scrap sheet? IF someone who bought the strip, confirmed that PSA would slab each card as a "cut-from sheet" proof), would that be a good thing to do or not?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Traditionally, a panel or sheet worth is more than the sum of the value of the individual cards, and none of the cards would cut to high grade singles. The standard reason to cut apart sheets or panels is to get high grade singles. Even with a 1980s Fleer panel, if there are no "Mint" grade cards to be extracted, there's no incentive to cut apart the panel. It's more valuable as a scarce 1980s Fleer panel than a bunch of low grade singles. So there's nor serious reason for someone to cut apart the Wagner panel. Despite past sales results, the panel should be most valuable as a panel.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Hey ole buddy....here is the link, take a real close look at this strip. Those lines between the 5 cards are
borders of individual cards. They are not "score lines"....think about this....have you ever seen a T206
with score lines ?

But, the more significant clue....observe CYoung's uniform color (or lack of it). And, Bowerman is missing Blue
and Red inking.
While the other 3 cards have their normal colors....this is a "printing impossibility" for this strip to be a legiti-
mate production piece.

TED Z

http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_30.html

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Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

Ted:

Since Kling is one of the catchers I collect, I'll add my 2 cents worth. His card is also missing the blue in the collar as is Brown's card.

Patrick

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Posted By: Marshall Fogel

My friend Marshall (hi Marshall) wants me to post this for him. As I have said before I will always help friends. Anyone that knows me knows I will...... I am working on convincing him to learn the system ..These are exactly his thoughts and words:


"From Marshall Fogel The T-206 PSA 8 Wagner card has been the subject of rumors for close to ten years. Please remember that Robert Lifson bid on this card in 1996 and won the card for a record price of $640,000. Michael Gidwitz, after the auction, claimed an ownership interest in the Wagner card. It is important to note that this card, at the time of this sale, was in a PSA 8 holder. In 2000, Robert Edward Auctions, sold the Wagner card for $1.26 million dollars. Prior to the sale, Rob Lifson, on June 6, 2000 is quoted as follows: "The T-206 Honus Wagner trading card is the Mona Lisa of all trading cards. - universally recognized as the most valuable and desirable among collectors and dealers alike" said Robert Lifson director of Robert Edward Auctions. Source Google- Legendary T 206 Honus Wagner Baseball Trading Card for Sale on eBay.

This PSA 8 Wagner card, as we all know, as been publicly displayed all over the country and viewed be thousands of people including graders, knowledgable collectors, and conspiracy theroists.


Rob Lifson's labeling the Wagner card as Mona Lisa of all trading cards as well as his participation in buying and selling the card is more then enough information as to why the Wagner is the most valuable sports card."

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Posted By: MVSNYC

$118K and counting...

28 days to go.

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Posted By: Chad

"Rob Lifson's labeling the Wagner card as Mona Lisa of all trading cards as well as his participation in buying and selling the card is more then enough information as to why the Wagner is the most valuable sports card."

Was it Bob Dylan who admonished us not to worship false idols?

--Chad

(No disrespect meant to anyone, just my way of saying that I think the hobby is bigger than just one person, no matter how giant and excellent that one person may be.)

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Posted By: Paul

Has anyone on this board seen the Wagner strip in person? It should be pretty easy to tell in person whether this is five cards that were glued together or a single strip with lines between the cards.

Assuming it is a strip, I agree with the others who have said it is undervalued. I'd much rather have this strip than a PSA 1 Wagner. But maybe that's just me.