Does Lance Parrish deserve to be in the HOF?

[todeen]

Someone posted on Twitter about Lance Parrish. He retired right as I was gaining interest in baseball. His stats and highlights seem pretty impressive. What's the argument against him? He seems to have been a great combo catcher with hitting and defense.

From Twitter user @NotGaetti

Not enough people talk about Lance Parrish

• 324 HR, 1070 RBI, 3113 TB, 39.5 WAR
• 8x All-Star, 6x Silver Slugger, 3x GG
• 1984 World Series Champ with DET
• Only C to reach 42 2B and 114 RBI
• Tied with Gary Carter at 324 HR
• Threw out 50+ base stealers 5x
• (Pudge Rodriguez only did it 2x)
• One of just seven catchers in MLB history to hit at least 300 homers; the other six are all in the Hall of Fame

Despite being tied for 5th all time in home runs at his position and having a diversified trophy case that includes six Silver Sluggers, three Gold Gloves, and a World Series ring, Parrish was a one-and-done on his only HOF ballot appearance in 2001, receiving just 1.7% of the vote. An injustice!

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[Peter_Spaeth]

The HR and AS appearances are strong, but overall, he feels like hall of very good to me, similar to his namesake Lance Berkman in a way. Although he had a bit better power, he feels south of Posada to me, and Posada just isn't on the radar.

[steve B]

One of those guys who are almost there.

Playing for mostly smaller market teams doesn't help. That shouldn't matter but it does.

And when he played was interesting. Pretty much contemporary with Fisk. Same with Bench for his first few years. And Gary Carter.
And of the years I spot checked, there were other guys having a better year, plus a few that came and went with similar performance.

The last 3 years of bouncing around and backup level stats and playing time couldn't help.

[D. Bergin]

His OBP really killed him from compiling more WAR throughout his career.

I completely forgot how many guys he used to throw out.

I’m all for more catcher’s getting in the Hall though. I think they should be judged on a completely different skill set than other position players.

I think it’s odd how few catchers are in the HOF, when you consider an everyday catcher is involved in literally every pitch and play throughout the course of a game when his team is on the field.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

His OBP really killed him from compiling more WAR throughout his career.

I completely forgot how many guys he used to throw out.

I’m all for more catcher’s getting in the Hall though. I think they should be judged on a completely different skill set than other position players.

I think it’s odd how few catchers are in the HOF, when you consider an everyday catcher is involved in literally every pitch and play throughout the course of a game when his team is on the field.

Posey and Molina should get in which would rectify that a bit.

[packs]

I wonder what will happen when Salvador Perez comes up for voting. He's similar to Parrish and is ranked near him on BR (26 for Parrish and 32 for Perez). Big power guy who isn't helped at all by OPS+ or WAR. Might have more of a resume than Parrish though with his World Series MVP and his monster 48 homer season.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I wonder what will happen when Salvador Perez comes up for voting. He's similar to Parrish and is ranked near him on BR (26 for Parrish and 32 for Perez). Big power guy who isn't helped at all by OPS+ or WAR. Might have more of a resume than Parrish though with his World Series MVP and his monster 48 homer season.

How do you explain that season? It's insane, almost a 1961 Norm Cash or a 1990 Brady Anderson.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How do you explain that season? It's insane, almost a 1961 Norm Cash or a 1990 Brady Anderson.

2001 Luis Gonzalez with 57 HR. His most famous hit is a bloop line drive that would have been caught by Derek Jeter if they hadn't been playing in to prevent the run.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I think it’s odd how few catchers are in the HOF, when you consider an everyday catcher is involved in literally every pitch and play throughout the course of a game when his team is on the field.

I'm completely with you about judging catchers on a different set of criteria. JT Realmuto deserves consideration among modern catchers. His productivity has helped the Phillies compete offensively and defensively. Here's a list...
https://baseballegg.com/all-time-pla...s-of-all-time/

Realmuto #23 slots in between Parrish #24 and Piazza #22 on this list of best catchers of all time, and ranks higher than Salvador Perez #27. HOF'er Ernie Lombardi #33 sits below him, but he was helped by two batting titles and back to back WS appearances. Ahead of Perez and Realmuto on the list are Posey #8, Posada #14, Molina #15, Jason Kendall #17.

This same argument will eventually come up in 15 years about pitchers from 2015 - present. It is very doubtful we will see 200 wins from this group of pitchers, they will have pitiful Innings Pitched numbers, but monster strikeouts and WHIP.

[packs]

I don't know. He missed all of 2019 and then only played 37 games in the short 2020 season. Maybe all that time off.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by todeen

I'm completely with you about judging catchers on a different set of criteria. JT Realmuto deserves consideration among modern catchers. His productivity has helped the Phillies compete offensively and defensively. Here's a list...
https://baseballegg.com/all-time-pla...s-of-all-time/

Realmuto #23 slots in between Parrish #24 and Piazza #22 on this list of best catchers of all time, and ranks higher than Salvador Perez #27. HOF'er Ernie Lombardi #33 sits below him, but he was helped by two batting titles and back to back WS appearances. Ahead of Perez and Realmuto on the list are Posey #8, Posada #14, Molina #15, Jason Kendall #17.

This same argument will eventually come up in 15 years about pitchers from 2015 - present. It is very doubtful we will see 200 wins from this group of pitchers, they will have pitiful Innings Pitched numbers, but monster strikeouts and WHIP.

Mickey Cochrane at #19 and Roy Campanella at #20? That list can't be real.

[Mark17]

Actually, maybe he does. I like gold gloves + good offensive numbers and Parrish has both.

[jingram058]

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. I don't know. I'm just tired of what I perceive to be good but not great players going in, and so many what I consider to be great, again, my perception, not going in. I would really like to see some of the guys I collect, who after reading about them, or that I actually remember being discussed as great from the days in which I followed baseball go in. I guess that's just asking too much, realistically. That's why I collect my own Hall of Fame.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Gene Tenace ranks higher by JAWS than any of the catchers under discussion here, I believe. He feels to me like the Bobby Grich of catchers -- high metrics, but most would not think of him as even close to great.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. I don't know. I'm just tired of what I perceive to be good but not great players going in, and so many what I consider to be great, again, my perception, not going in. I would really like to see some of the guys I collect, who after reading about them, or that I actually remember being discussed as great from the days in which I followed baseball go in. I guess that's just asking too much, realistically. That's why I collect my own Hall of Fame.

I didn't see Parrish play. But I think my question is: would Parrish be considered Baines, and a joke to the HOF, or would he be more like Ted Simmons, and considered an honor a long time coming?

Originally Posted by rats60

Mickey Cochrane at #19 and Roy Campanella at #20? That list can't be real.

Looking at the list, he is looking at three different measures of WAR: 7 yrs, 5 yrs, and 3 years. Looking at Cochrane and Campanella compared to the top catchers (Bench, Carter, Fisk, Ivan Rodriguez, Yogi), it's noticeable that Cochrane and Campanella have something that creates that separation. Usually when I look at lists like this, the cream of the crop are noticeably separated, like a bell curve. You have those few anomalies at the top and bottom, and then a huge chunk in between. The in-between players are the ones you get to argue about. Of Cochrane, Campanella, Hartnett and Piazza....as you question....I'm not sure how they are passed by Jason Kendall.

[JustinD]

As likely the largest Parrish collector in the country, people may be surprised by this answer.

I don’t see it as much as I would love it.

Does he have a resume that qualifies for the new hall of very good? I think so, he has the WS, numerous golden gloves and sliver sluggers, ground breaking in opening strength training in baseball over the huge objections of Sparky.

The two biggest catch 22’s. The Phillies move was a bust, and really was after a long battle that beat him mentally. That 1987 year is a tough one.

The absolute biggest- Parrish was a lynchpin in destroying one of the largest scandal in MLB history with spotlighting the collusion of owners under the complete ass that was Peter Uberroth. The commissioner that blatantly violated near every labor law and created one of the biggest black eyes in modern baseball. I can’t imagine them wanting his history in full review during the career retrospective and bringing a scandal they have spent 40 years trying to keep out of the public eye back in the forefront. Uberroth was a soulless criminal and holds a black spot in history for his treatment of players. No one wants that on display.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by JustinD

The absolute biggest- Parrish was a lynchpin in destroying one of the largest scandal in MLB history with spotlighting the collusion of owners under the complete ass that was Peter Uberroth.

Show us part of your collection!

Before my time, I had to look that one up. From Wikipedia....

However, Ueberroth, with the assistance of the owners, also facilitated collusion between the owners in violation of the league's collective bargaining agreement with the players. Players entering free agency in the 1985, 1986 and 1987 offseasons were, with few exceptions, prevented from both signing equitable contracts and joining the teams of their choice during this period. The roots of the collusion lay in Ueberroth's first owners' meeting as commissioner, when he called the owners "damned dumb" for being willing to lose money in order to win a World Series. Later, he told the general managers that it was "not smart" to sign long-term contracts.[10] Former Major League Baseball Players Association president Marvin Miller later described this as "tantamount to fixing, not just games, but entire pennant races, including all post-season series."[11] The MLBPA, under Miller's successor, Don Fehr, filed collusion charges and won each case, resulting in "second look" free agents, and over $280 million in fines.[12] Fay Vincent, who followed as Ueberroth's successor in the commissioner's office, laid the crippling labor problems of the early 1990s (including the 1994–95 strike) directly at the feet of Ueberroth and the owners' collusion, holding that the collusion years constituted theft from the players.[13]

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[JustinD]

Originally Posted by todeen

Before my time, I had to look that one up.

They’ve done a great job of hiding it for 40 years haven’t they? It is great reading although incredibly frustrating. I remember it like it was yesterday as that was basically the singular reason my favorite childhood player left the Tigers for the Phillies. He was incredible for standing up to an obvious injustice to the players and the players since owe him and the others that helped fight and put their careers at risk a debt of gratitude that they likely have no idea of.

Many stars just sadly took it on the chin and signed horrible contracts under pressure. That scandal almost ruined baseball by being the kindling for the MLB strike. The worst commissioner in the history of baseball in my mind and the memories have been silenced by most.